Grub's Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | It's All Gone Pete Tong

[theguardianII]

I dunno how you can say that when you take into account the first half of Pettersson's season last year, when he looked every bit on track for 100+ pts through the all-star break and the team was running on all cylinders. It has been done under Tocchet, I'm just not sure what needs to happen to bring that team back. For Miller, it could well be just age. Pettersson is the great mystery, but that player is still in there and has been there under Tocchet.

Look at what changed on the team.

Kuzmenko trade, his line mate, the media and team pressure to sign early, the change in system after the all-star break to a much more defensive style where I posted I thought to prepare for the playoff grind where defence can win but it got even more restrictive this year.

What were two things commented about Kuzmenko and Zadorov, they lightened the room, Kuzmenko was quite a card and Zadorov took over the music in the room, both gone.

The first half of last year they were still playing more of a rush game but Tocchet started wanting more dump and pray so he moved him off Pettersson's line and really made the game much harder for Kuzmenko, playing with different players, lines, role on the PP and ice-times. Dump and pray is not a game Kuz ever had to play before and this was only his second season on small ice. Tocchet tried to make a goal scorer into a grinder. In fact EP, Kuz and Mik all spent from January on with rotating line-mates which escalated after the Kuz trade whereas his fav's, Tocchet's, Miller and Boeser with Joshua and Garland had the same line-mates just about all year. That is just an example of how a coach can make a player look bad.

Once Tocchet established the dump and pray, shortly after the all-star break Pettersson's slump went into high gear, once Tocchet owned Pettersson's ass via the contract.

Just for Tocchet's credit here, his current system is great for less skilled players, it is a "team" game but a coach needs to be flexable. His system keeps scores lower but makes it harder to come back. If you figure you can keep the 5 on 5 play down to one goal per game then a good PP will win more games. It is just playing the odds and doesn't require high skill or puck possession. For Tocchet Hughes as a rover is a gift but the games have been close without him still, that is the system. One that works in the playoffs but isn't great at getting the team to the playoffs and becomes predictable and can be defeated through line matching.

I'm happy you knew the man. He probably told ya a lot. You always hit the mark, then don't know when to stop typing my man. That's all I'm saying.

Ya, I have a speech impediment too, I can't stop talking

 

[Phrasing]

So f***ing stupid. You will lose any trade involving one of these two players. They make millions between the two and can’t figure out their shit. Worst outcome imaginable.

 

[Hodgy]

I assume that a centre just has to be in the package. I highly doubt you're going to find some ideal transaction where you swap a comparable 1C straight across ... that seems extremely unlikely. That package should also include a defenseman.

It should also include a power play coach.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

Great movie. Anything with Paul Rudd is guaranteed to be hilarious.

 

[Josepho]

So f***ing stupid. You will lose any trade involving one of these two players. They make millions between the two and can’t figure out their shit. Worse outcome imaginable.

You will probably lose it in terms of value but I think the team will improve after either of them is moved just because the headache will be finally over.

 

[kanucks25]

Are there posters that are overly critical of Pettersson but are praising Or otherwise not criticizing Miller right now? Because if there are I’m not really noticing them. Seems obvious both are playing very poorly at this point, albeit for different reasons. But in fairness to Miller, Pettersson has been playing poorly for like twice as long as Miller and did so through two rounds of the playoffs, while Miller was at least good last year and through the playoffs. So from that perspective, you’d actually expect, and reasonably so, for the market to be harder on Pettersson at this point.

And the whole narrative that this market is harder on Pettersson than Miller is just entirely false. Posters here, by and large, absolutely hated Miller two years ago after he signed his contract. I’ve never seen this market come anywhere close to disliking Pettersson as much as everyone disliked Miller two years ago. And in fact, the fans have literally chanted Pettersson’s name in sympathy during Canucks games during his slump as a means of trying to support him and help him out of this funk.

Yeah it might seem like Petey is getting piled on more but that's because last season's stretch run + playoffs is still fresh in everyone's mind with the way he disappeared whereas JT was consistently pretty good throughout the entire campaign.

Overall throughout their tenures as Canucks JT has definitely received more criticism and rightfully so. And this year they deserve somewhat equal criticism.

Either way, the "leave Petey alone" crowd better get used to it with the price tag he now comes with, whether or not Miller is traded.Until he breaks out and looks like the player he could/should be, the criticism will only get louder.

 

[Peter Griffin]

I think Miller is dealt before the trade deadline and Pettersson before his NMC kicks in July 1st. Didn’t think I would be saying this 9 months ago, but here we are.

 

[Rick Rocket]

Make Hughes a super secret assistant GM, I think he really knows who sucks and who doesnt a la sherwood

 

[SopelFanThe3rd]

EP is not a generational talent lol.

And he will never win a cup as the go to guy. QUOTE me.

 

[rypper]

EP is not a generational talent lol.

And he will never win a cup as the go to guy. QUOTE me.

 

[SopelFanThe3rd]

Trade them both. Those whole sideshow has ruined this season. Done with them both. Shitty production mixed with drama. Byeeeeee

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

me

 

[kanucks25]

EP is not a generational talent lol.

And he will never win a cup as the go to guy. QUOTE me.

To be fair the guy said "borderline" generational, but even that is a joke.

That would be more like Malkin, Kucherov, Kane, etc. Guys with serious accolades to their names and serious hardware in their trophy cases.

 

[StickShift]

So f***ing stupid. You will lose any trade involving one of these two players. They make millions between the two and can’t figure out their shit. Worse outcome imaginable.

I get the sentiment—but losing the trade and improving the team are not mutually dependent.

Miller and Pettersson have become major distractions and are each playing well below their capabilities.

Both will probably perform better on their new teams. It’s unlikely that the Canucks will get trade value equal to their potential. They will likely lose either trade.

But, the players they do acquire to replace either will probably be an improvement over the lackluster, lazy, and inconsistent play that they’ve demonstrated recently as Canucks—and probably at a fraction of the price. They will likely improve their team.

 

[M2Beezy]

Neither will be traded. FACT

 

[krutovsdonut]

Trade them both. Those whole sideshow has ruined this season. Done with them both. Shitty production mixed with drama. Byeeeeee

i agree except there is no way we win both trades so as much as i'd like to do it, i think we have to do one or none.

this will be the most meaningful trade since kesler if it happens. blowing the kesler trade killed the retool and sealed this team's fate for the entirety of the sedins' career. it led to the sutter/gudbranson do-over trades which led to...

this one is a dressing room driven trade. not being there, i don't know how to choose.

Neither will be traded. FACT

that is the best outcome if it can happen.

 

[Canucker]

i agree except there is no way we win both trades so as much as i'd like to do it, i think we have to do one or none.

this will be the most meaningful trade since kesler if it happens. blowing the kesler trade killed the retool and sealed this team's fate for the entirety of the sedins' career. it led to the sutter/gudbranson do-over trades which led to...

this one is a dressing room driven trade. not being there, i don't know how to choose.

Well...that was Benning, it was doomed from the start. Kesler was also playing hardball, EP can't.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Neither will be traded. FACT

Ever? Seems bold.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Well...that was Benning, it was doomed from the start. Kesler was also playing hardball, EP can't.

if ep is the guy we punt, sure. miller can do exactly what kesler did if he is the guy we trade, and can be expected to do it to some extent. there are subtle hints that is exactly what he doing.

i don't want to get into a benning fight here and now but that was benning and linden with aquaman riding shotgun working with the existing pro-scouting group making a trade with a west coast team for roster players the proscouting guys should know well, and then doubling down and going after sutter and gudbranson, both of whom we had previously been targeted under gillis. there had been discussions with other teams about kesler before benning got there. there's also the fact that benning wouldn't have had any history with chicago to prevent a trade there. all of which is to say i don't believe benning had the autonomy during that era to make any of those decisions alone. ymmv.

 

[Canucker]

if ep is the guy we punt, sure. miller can do exactly what kesler did if he is the guy we trade, and can be expected to do it to some extent. there are subtle hints that is exactly what he doing.

i don't want to get into a benning fight here and now but that was benning and linden with aquaman riding shotgun working with the existing pro-scouting group making a trade with a west coast team for roster players the proscouting guys should know well, and then doubling down and going after sutter and gudbranson, both of whom we had previously been targeted under gillis. there had been discussions with other teams about kesler before benning got there. there's also the fact that benning wouldn't have had any history with chicago to prevent a trade there. all of which is to say i don't believe benning had the autonomy during that era to make any of those decisions alone. ymmv.

We can agree to disagree on the Benning thing, its pretty immaterial, there is potential for any management group to screw up a trade of this magnitude...Miller "could" do what Kesler did, but the difference is that it doesn't appear that Miller is actually trying to force his way out of Vancouver...but he could try to hamstring management if he wanted...but management could just decide to keep him too.

 

[PavelBure10]

If this trade is going to happen then I just want to happen already so the Canucks can work with their new players and get everyone back on the same page. I'm honestly getting sick of all of the speculation and the Miller vs Pettersson talk. What a catastrophe of a season, why can't these two get over their differences and be on the same page for once. If this team was winning this wouldn't even be a issue.

I get the feeling that there won't even be a trade made and the Canucks will finish the season with both of their top centermen. I think we will probably see a smaller trade made where Allvin brings in a defenseman to help out this absolute tirefire of a defense.

 

[Bankerguy]

Petey under a more free flowing coach is going to pop off if he has a top line LW or RW.
I'm talking 110 point seasons. leave the defensive duties to the 2C and 3C.
Give him full range, less responsibilities of where he has to be all the time and he's going to soar.

NYI wouldnt be a fit imo. if i'm thinking where he'd suceed the most, i think the Kings would be such a fit, Playing with Kempe and Fiala.... that could really be something. Kings however likely wouldnt be interested as they're roster is pretty set.

 

[xtr3m]

So it might potentially come down to keeping EP vs keeping Tok.

If you’re the management do you keep EP with the idea of replacing Tok down the line, because otherwise it’s foolish?

Man, don’t want to be JRPA right now. Their decision will probably be made by the quality of the offers.

 

[Nucker42]

Old Ricky talking about how if Pettersson to NYI was possible, the Canucks would need Barzal back.

Also mentioned more pieces would be involved.

He’s phrasing as a what if, but he usually doesn’t say stuff like that unless there’s something there….

 

[Hodgy]

Old Ricky talking about how if Pettersson to NYI was possible, the Canucks would need Barzal back.

Also mentioned more pieces would be involved.

He’s phrasing as a what if, but he usually doesn’t say stuff like that unless there’s something there….

Whelp, you could do worse than Barzal.