Grub's Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | It's All Gone Pete Tong

[Rowlet]

I lived through the "Canucks fans need to be prepared to add more than the Sedins if they want Jokinen."

"Cory Schneider won't return more than a 2010 3rd" was another one that seemed to go on forever, but then Jack Campbell got picked 11th overall... and people just didn't seem to understand that a team who wanted to pick a goalie at 11th overall could have the best goalie prospect in the world for that pick instead.

 

[Jerry the great]

For a team and fanbase that is still haunted by Cam Neely I dont understand the hesitation here. Lets smash our own Cam Neely trade but from the opposite side.

Barry Pederson had a 116 point season at age 22/23.

Barry become injured at 23/24 and only managed 22 games with 12 points.

At 24/25 he had 76 points in 79 games and the Bruins made the decision to ship him out before his injuries became a big deal.

That offseason they shipped him off for a first the year after, and Cam Neely of course.

The first ended up being 3rd overall, and Neely became Neely.

I want whatever this new cap world 2025 equivilant is and a trade that forever pays fruit for this franchise.

Wesley was later traded for 3 firsts, one being Sergei Samsonov.

There is probably still something remaining in the Bruins org from that trade tree almost 39 years later as Lucic was one of the participants and fruits that Barry Pederson gave.

EDIT - Jakub Zboril traded for Andrew Peeke.

39 years later and they still have something for their Elias Pettersson.

Andrew Peeke came from the Glen Wesley tree.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

I lived through the "Canucks fans need to be prepared to add more than the Sedins if they want Jokinen."

Say what you want I miss that beautiful crazy bastard.

Andrew Peeke came from the Glen Wesley tree.

We're not doing that again are we? My bile stores are running quite low these days.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

I guess it's acceptable then. I get what you're saying but that shit doesn't fly for me star or no star. This one looked extra awful to me but I'm probably just out to lunch.

You're not out to lunch.

NHLers do loaf to the bench more than I like, and I find it odd.

But to give the puck away in your own zone and then just controller disconnect towards the bench as if play has stopped? That is in NO WAY a normal thing to do.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

You're not out to lunch.

NHLers do loaf to the bench more than I like, and I find it odd.

But to give the puck away in your own zone and then just controller disconnect towards the bench as if play has stopped? That is in NO WAY a normal thing to do.

Oddly enough, a poster by the name a Taelin I remember observed this...

Max Lapierre would dead sprint to the bench. 90% of the time. Those teams were coached like no other and had the horses.

Like my mum told me this...don't bullshit a bullshitter. Fans know when you are trying and when you have more to give. It's tiny f***ing things.

 

[I Hart Conor Garland]

Like my mum told me this...don't bullshit a bullshitter. Fans know when you are trying and when you have more to give. It's tiny f***ing things.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Yeah, in a sense my mother was/is Jane Lynch. That has its own sorts of amusements...

 

[Diablo2020]

Andrew Peeke came from the Glen Wesley tree.

Yeah right after I posted, and knowing Looch was a part off the top of my head I knew theyre had to be something still in the Bees org, 39 freaking years later.

I editied to show Zboril for Peeke.

But while looking couldnt help but make myself a list of players and assets the Bruins had available to themselves all because they shipped off the "superstar" at age 25 who went on to become worthless.

Cam Neely
3rd overall Pick (Glen Wesley)
9th Overall Pick (Kyle McLaren from Wesley)
8th Overall Pick (Jon Aitken from Wesley)
8th Overall Pick (Samsonov from Wesley)
Jeff Hackett (from McLaren)
Jeff Jilsson (from McLaren)
Marty Reasoner (from Samsonov)
50th Overall Pick (Lucic from Samsonov)
Martin Jones (from Lucic)
Sean Kuraly
29th Overall pick (Trent Frederic)
Colin Miller (from Lucic)
13th Overall Pick (Zboril from Lucic)
Andrew Peeke (from Zboril)


Now I admit there is no superstar in there after the original Neely and I dont see many Wesley for THREE 1sts trades happening lately but look at all the potential for franchise changing options available to the Bruins.

39 years later and they still have TWO players on their 23 man roster that were a direct descendant of Barry Pederson. Its amazing.

Zboril could have been Debrusk, Barzal, Connor, even Boeser to really hammer it home.

EDIT - forgot Jones for Trent Frederic

 

[Jyrki]

Yeah right after I posted, and knowing Looch was a part off the top of my head I knew theyre had to be something still in the Bees org, 39 freaking years later.

I editied to show Zboril for Peeke.

But while looking couldnt help but make myself a list of players and assets the Bruins had available to themselves all because they shipped off the "superstar" at age 25 who went on to become worthless.

Cam Neely
3rd overall Pick (Glen Wesley)
9th Overall Pick (Kyle McLaren from Wesley)
8th Overall Pick (Jon Aitken from Wesley)
8th Overall Pick (Samsonov from Wesley)
Jeff Hackett (from McLaren)
Jeff Jilsson (from McLaren)
Marty Reasoner (from Samsonov)
50th Overall Pick (Lucic from Samsonov)
Martin Jones (from Lucic)
Colin Miller (from Lucic)
13th Overall Pick (Zboril from Lucic)
Andrew Peeke (from Zboril)


Now I admit there is no superstar in there after the original Neely and I dont see many Wesley for THREE 1sts trades happening lately but look at all the potential for franchise changing options available to the Bruins.

39 years later and they still have a player on their 23 man roster that was a direct descendant of Barry Pederson. Its amazing.

Zboril could have been Debrusk, Barzal, Connor, even Boeser to really hammer it home

Pedersen was already retired by '94, while in that season Neely became the only person other than Gretzky to score 50 goals in less than 45 games.

Given how close the Canucks got to winning it all then, it's physically painful to imagine the what-could've-been....

 

[Diablo2020]

Pedersen was already retired by '94, while in that season Neely became the only person other than Gretzky to score 50 goals in less than 45 games.

Given how close the Canucks got to winning it all then, it's physically painful to imagine the what-could've-been....

I remember reading someone pointed out years ago, two picks after Kyle McLaren was Iggy.

Imagine Cam Neely, Jarome Iginla and Milan Lucic as fruits of a Pederson (pettersson?) trade, amongst all the other assets.

 

[Nolan Bombgardener]

"Cory Schneider won't return more than a 2010 3rd" was another one that seemed to go on forever, but then Jack Campbell got picked 11th overall... and people just didn't seem to understand that a team who wanted to pick a goalie at 11th overall could have the best goalie prospect in the world for that pick instead.

The best goalie prospect in the world's the best goalie prospect in the world, but the 11th overall pick could be anything! It could even be the best goalie prospect in the world!

 

[bossram]

You're not out to lunch.

NHLers do loaf to the bench more than I like, and I find it odd.

But to give the puck away in your own zone and then just controller disconnect towards the bench as if play has stopped? That is in NO WAY a normal thing to do.

Agreed. There are lazy changes. But this s*** JT pulls on a regular basis is in a different category.

It's just tilting so many people jump on Petey's neck for "effort" yet constantly ignore crap like this from Miller every other game. Petey obviously isn't producing at the level they need him. But there is a baseline competence and professionalism from him every game in the DZ, backchecking, blocking shots, etc.

But I guess if JT smashes his stick on the bench next game, the same people will be saying he's got the "fire" back and is "passionate".

 

[JT Milker]

Don’t think Allvin is stupid enough to trade a borderline generational talent in EP40 but the scary thing is that dinosaur rutherford is.

Just gotta hope JT Miller is traded within this week and the lockeroom gets some harmony. At this point just take a loss if you have to in a trade.

Having Quinn Hughes and Elias Pettersson as your Superstar 1D and 1C is the only reason to follow this team and puts us ahead of 90% of the league.

Don’t f*** this up Allvin.

“Generational talent” has really been watered down these days.

 

[kanucks25]

a borderline generational talent in EP40

lmao

 

[Big zZz]

Miller for horvat.

 

[kanucks25]

FWIW, as much as Petey has annoyed the shit out of me going back to last year's ASG break or whatever, keeping him over Miller is a pretty easy decision.

As good as Miller was last season, he only has 1 season under his belt where he put his bozo to the side and was a team player first. And although Petey seems to have his own version of bozo that we've now seen multiple times in his career, we've seen "the good Petey" a lot more often.

Add in the age factor and it's a no-brainer (Miller turns 32 in a couple months).

I also still believe Petey has maturing to do both physically and mentally which will make him a better player in the long-run, but that could just be wishful thinking.

 

[Nopefully]

Yes, Elooter. That’s how things work. Either things happen or they don’t happen.

This stock is going up, down or sideways. NFA

 

[theguardianII]

As long as Tocchet is here Petey won't fit. It's like trying to teach a cat to bark. The system smothers Petey's skill set.
Sure if they deal him he will probably return to high end point production and that 11.6 in 5 years won't look all that bad, in fact it may seem a bargain. But what of this team if he stays and keeps going the way he is? Tocchet's system is good enough to keep the team on the edge of making the playoff regardless if Petey is playing but never good enough to be a real contender until other team decline.

I do remember the Neely trade I was irate over it and actually phoned in the radio show to complain, I even remember some of the conversation and it turned out to be true. I remember WHY the trade was made and there are some few similarities, the system and the GM made the deal to suit the coach.

If Petey is traded there will be for sure remorse at some point over the years but it isn't what he will have done for others it will be what has this team done. Vancouver.

Forget the koolaid being offered up freely and often by management, they don't say anything here in this market if they don't want to lead the fans around by the nose to their position, something they want fans to think. They meaning Allvin and Tocchet, Rutherford to me still seems to have integrity and honesty but Tocchet gives out sound bites mostly and Allvin .....

In that Neely trade senario Vancouver fans think of the fleecing the team took but there is a flip side, what if the sides change, if that kind of return is in Vancouver's favor.

Think not Neely for Petey but Petey for Neely. Pettersson for ? and that kind of return

 

[StickShift]

As long as Tocchet is here Petey won't fit. It's like trying to teach a cat to bark. The system smothers Petey's skill set.
Sure if they deal him he will probably return to high end point production and that 11.6 in 5 years won't look all that bad, in fact it may seem a bargain. But what of this team if he stays and keeps going the way he is? Tocchet's system is good enough to keep the team on the edge of making the playoff regardless if Petey is playing but never good enough to be a real contender until other team decline.

I do remember the Neely trade I was irate over it and actually phoned in the radio show to complain, I even remember some of the conversation and it turned out to be true. I remember WHY the trade was made and there are some few similarities, the system and the GM made the deal to suit the coach.

If Petey is traded there will be for sure remorse at some point over the years but it isn't what he will have done for others it will be what has this team done. Vancouver.

Forget the koolaid being offered up freely and often by management, they don't say anything here in this market if they don't want to lead the fans around by the nose to their position, something they want fans to think. They meaning Allvin and Tocchet, Rutherford to me still seems to have integrity and honesty but Tocchet gives out sound bites mostly and Allvin doesn't talk unless he wants to tell fan what to think.

In that Neely trade senario Vancouver fans think of the fleecing the team took but there is a flip side, what if the sides change, if that kind of return is in Vancouver's favor.

Think not Neely for Petey but Petey for Neely. Pettersson for ? and that kind of return

I really don’t think if Pettersson is traded it is because of the coach or the system that is played.

I think it is because the franchise has seen a player disappear for stretches at a time—at the worst possible time.

It’s happened under different coaches too. Green and Tocchet. And it probably would’ve happened eventually under Boudreau too. And there’s a good chance it might happen again under a future coach.

A player’s ultimate potential is only worth as much as their consistency in deploying it. For Vancouver, I think they’ve nearly seen enough to know that they can’t count on him to perform when it matters.

 

[theguardianII]

I really don’t think if Pettersson is traded it is because of the coach or the system that is played.

I think it is because the franchise has seen a player disappear for stretches at a time—at the worst possible time.

It’s happened under different coaches too. Green and Tocchet. And it probably would’ve happened eventually under Boudreau too. And there’s a good chance it might happen again under a future coach.

A player’s ultimate potential is only worth as much as their consistency in deploying it. For Vancouver, I think they’ve nearly seen enough to know that they can’t count on him to perform when it matters.

Not too sure about coaching matters. Green and Tocchet have similar systems, it has to do with the game they played and roles they were given.
Bruce was much more savvy in coaching super star players.

For Tocchet playing with a super star or being the 3rd assistant to the head coach is different than being the top dog.

Bruce broke EP out of his "slump" but it does show that EP has a "type" he plays best for. Remember Crosby and McDavid more recently, got their choice of coach and the other fired. That isn't saying Petey is at that level but just that high level players like to play the game that got them into the league, as a high draft pick and a large contract.

All this Allvin speak of "grow up", "maturity" and such, were he and his other 3 GM's not aware when they pressured him to sign before the end of the season? They didn't now what was evidently well known by fans, media and players that visited for a few games knew, the rift?

IMO the maturity speak is covering their asses for making a big mistake in thinking they could OWN him once he was signed. Since that contract signing it has been used as a whip instead of a carrot. Before signing the way he was playing it was fear that he might decide to do what he had said for years, he wanted to play in the playoffs not just once or twice and he wanted to play for the cup. Once signed it became, "where are you going to go, your signed".
That contract is used in many conversations as a weapon against him.

Again, he was an RFA, they didn't have to give him that much money and he couldn't really hold out for that much unless he really wanted to be traded but then he wouldn't have signed or there would have been a Necas type contract.

Surely you remember the the talk around the signing, a threatened trade across the continent to play for a harsher task master, the deadline to sign. These were not EP's agent making demands so I don't put any blame on Pettersson for that contract, it's all on Allvin and the other 3 lemmings, er GMs'.

IMO if Boudreau had that defence they would have done even better than Tocchet, BB worked to make players better together, Tocchet wants plug and play players, you play this way or don't play, "you will perform and you will like it" as the super star has to dig a ditches by hand. Grunts and grinders, plug and play. Tocchet,"you don't teach in the NHL, that is what the AHL is for" that in its self says he can't teach or coach high skilled players and never has successfully.

I don't blame either JT Miller or EP for the current situation, their play is dictated by the coach, his time, deployment, instructions on system to play maybe even "I can't fire you but I can get your friends".

Both Miller and EP have paid in their dues here, the team isn't close to a cup and Miller's career is vanishing and the pressure for both to perform at career best levels goes up daily.

There is always a question of when is it too late?

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Not too sure about coaching matters. Green and Tocchet have similar systems, it has to do with the game they played and roles they were given.
Bruce was much more savvy in coaching super star players, playing with a super star or being the 3rd assistant to the head coach is different than being the top dog. Bruce broke EP out of his "slump" but it does show that EP has a "type" he plays best for. Remember Crosby and McDavid more recently, got their choice of coach and the other fired. That isn't saying Petey is at that level but just that high level players like to play the game that got them into the league, as a high draft pick and a large contract.

All this Allvin speak of "grow up", "maturity" and such, he and his other 3 GM's were not aware when they pressured him to sign before the end of the season? They didn't now what was evidently known by players that visited for a few games knew, the rift?

IMO the maturity speak is covering their asses for making a big mistake in thinking they could OWN him once he was signed. Since that contract signing it has been used as a whip instead of a carrot. Before signing the way he was playing it was fear that he might decide to do what he had said for years, he wanted to play in the playoffs not just once or twice and he wanted to play for the cup. Once signed it became, "where are you going to go, your signed".
That contract is used in many conversations as a weapon against him.

Again, he was an RFA, they didn't have to give him that much money and he couldn't really hold out for that much unless he really wanted to be traded but then he wouldn't have signed.

Surely you remember the the talk around the signing, a threatened trade across the continent to play for a harsher task master, the deadline to sign. These were not EP's agent making demands so I don't put any blame on Pettersson for that contract, it's all on Allvin and the other 3 lemmings, er GMs'.

IMO if Boudreau had that defence they would have done even better than Tocchet, BB worked to make players better together, Tocchet wants plug and play players, you play this way or don't play, "you will perform and you will like it" as the super star has to dig a ditches by hand. Grunts and grinders, plug and play. Tocchet,"you don't teach in the NHL, that is what the AHL is for" that in its self says he can't teach or coach high skilled players and never has successfully.

I don't blame either JT Miller or EP for the current situation, their play is dictated by the coach, his time, deployment, instructions on system to play maybe even "I can't fire you but I can get your friends".

Both Miller and EP have paid in their dues here, the team isn't close to a cup and Miller's career is vanishing and the pressure for both to perform at career best levels goes up daily.

There is always a question of when is it too late?

Hey Guardian, glad to see you up with the chickens so to speak. Give me a second while I slip back into my more formal letter-style:

Yeah, I think we are seeing in real time that classic Vancouver car crash. I'll tell you why I'm not concerned. We just had in short succession the 3 best coaches you can possibly have.

1. The Green Guy - The rookie, the mentor of the youth, etc. Fun little aside is that my mum grew up in Castlegar and once filled in as Travis Green's sitter. I'm not worried about Travis as a coach. He's going to be great, I also just happen to have a wicked sense of humour.

2. The Gold Guy - The players-coach who couldn't get over the hump. I have this friend - brilliant hockey mind. Wanted Bruce to be hired. I kinda get it now. I was wrong. Or was I right? :O

3. Ponyboy f***ing Curtis!!! - The hard-ass, the direct communicator. Rick Tocchet is our Pat Quinn incarnate. He's finally figured out the learning curve I think of being a coach and he's doing it in the belly of the beast. But that was always Tocc.

 

[theguardianII]

3. Ponyboy f***ing Curtis!!! - The hard-ass, the direct communicator. Rick Tocchet is our Pat Quinn incarnate. He's finally figured out the learning curve I think of being a coach and he's doing it in the belly of the beast. But that was always Tocc.

Quinn? Quinn? I knew the man, Tocchet is nothing even close. What an insult to Quinn's memory

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Quinn? Quinn? I knew the man, Tocchet is nothing even close. What an insult to Quinn's memory

I'm happy you knew the man. He probably told ya a lot. You always hit the mark, then don't know when to stop typing my man. That's all I'm saying.

 

[TruGr1t]

As long as Tocchet is here Petey won't fit. It's like trying to teach a cat to bark. The system smothers Petey's skill set.
Sure if they deal him he will probably return to high end point production and that 11.6 in 5 years won't look all that bad, in fact it may seem a bargain. But what of this team if he stays and keeps going the way he is? Tocchet's system is good enough to keep the team on the edge of making the playoff regardless if Petey is playing but never good enough to be a real contender until other team decline.

I do remember the Neely trade I was irate over it and actually phoned in the radio show to complain, I even remember some of the conversation and it turned out to be true. I remember WHY the trade was made and there are some few similarities, the system and the GM made the deal to suit the coach.

If Petey is traded there will be for sure remorse at some point over the years but it isn't what he will have done for others it will be what has this team done. Vancouver.

Forget the koolaid being offered up freely and often by management, they don't say anything here in this market if they don't want to lead the fans around by the nose to their position, something they want fans to think. They meaning Allvin and Tocchet, Rutherford to me still seems to have integrity and honesty but Tocchet gives out sound bites mostly and Allvin .....

In that Neely trade senario Vancouver fans think of the fleecing the team took but there is a flip side, what if the sides change, if that kind of return is in Vancouver's favor.

Think not Neely for Petey but Petey for Neely. Pettersson for ? and that kind of return

I dunno how you can say that when you take into account the first half of Pettersson's season last year, when he looked every bit on track for 100+ pts through the all-star break and the team was running on all cylinders. It has been done under Tocchet, I'm just not sure what needs to happen to bring that team back. For Miller, it could well be just age. Pettersson is the great mystery, but that player is still in there and has been there under Tocchet.

 

[Hodgy]

Agreed. There are lazy changes. But this s*** JT pulls on a regular basis is in a different category.

It's just tilting so many people jump on Petey's neck for "effort" yet constantly ignore crap like this from Miller every other game. Petey obviously isn't producing at the level they need him. But there is a baseline competence and professionalism from him every game in the DZ, backchecking, blocking shots, etc.

But I guess if JT smashes his stick on the bench next game, the same people will be saying he's got the "fire" back and is "passionate".

Are there posters that are overly critical of Pettersson but are praising Or otherwise not criticizing Miller right now? Because if there are I’m not really noticing them. Seems obvious both are playing very poorly at this point, albeit for different reasons. But in fairness to Miller, Pettersson has been playing poorly for like twice as long as Miller and did so through two rounds of the playoffs, while Miller was at least good last year and through the playoffs. So from that perspective, you’d actually expect, and reasonably so, for the market to be harder on Pettersson at this point.

And the whole narrative that this market is harder on Pettersson than Miller is just entirely false. Posters here, by and large, absolutely hated Miller two years ago after he signed his contract. I’ve never seen this market come anywhere close to disliking Pettersson as much as everyone disliked Miller two years ago. And in fact, the fans have literally chanted Pettersson’s name in sympathy during Canucks games during his slump as a means of trying to support him and help him out of this funk.