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Vector

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Feb 2, 2007
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Junktown


Doing my best Vector impression...

- doesn't believe Pettersson is 100%.
- thinks the canucks want Pettersson to get (Elliotte used the words) tougher, meaner, have thicker skin.
- didn't want that message coming from coaches or mgmt, so it's running through Miller and Hughes. Might be what led to the altercation.
- he mentioned how he thought Pettersson listens to what's said about him too much in the media and fans, but said he was told by someone in the know that it goes further then that. There's people in Pettersson's life who are actively sending him links, telling him what they read etc.
- relates a story where he was approached by a different unnamed player in the same situation. Told that player to shut those voices out because the message is always worse then what's actually been said. Gave the player his number and said if I ever say anything you take issue with, call me, we'll sort it. The player has never called. But did say the player approached him later and told him he took Elliotte's advice to shut out the voices and it was the best thing he's ever done.
- spoke about when Pettersson broke into the league as a young kid naive to a lot of those external pressures and how he dominated and played his game. Needs to get back to that player.


Very good. Here's mine.

Pettersson:
-last year the Canucks wanted a commit from Pettersson or the team was moving on
-there were those within the organization that were ready to trade him
-Canucks felt there was a level or two he needs to get two
-as great as he is, he needs to be tougher; some people are not wired that way but the Canucks feel he is
-don't want Rutherford, Allvin, or Tocchet to be the ones that push him in that direction; have told Miller and Hughes to get Pettersson to that level
-*laughs* Miller is taking this literally
-have been talks off the ice with Pettersson
-Hughes has been involved
-can't go too far with this
-Canucks feel it might be better if it comes from teammates rather than the coach or GM
-"Elias needs to get to another level. You all see it and we want you guys to get him there"
-teammates see it, understand it, and want to get Pettersson there
-the message comes harder, Miller, than some other guys, Hughes
-to be successful we have to be prepared to accept honest & tough criticism and that's what the Canucks are trying to do
-doesn't think Pettersson always likes the criticism
-doesn't know how serious it is but doesn't think he's completely healthy
-a lot of players prefer when criticism comes from the chain of command rather than teammates because they are supposed to have your back
-however, when your teammates are telling you that you aren't doing your best job, it has a greater impact
-someone called Friedman and told him that he's not going far enough on the Pettersson social media aspect
-Pettersson's friends are sending and telling him stuff
-a few years ago was doing the NHLPA media tour, a coach was able to text in the correct guess of which player, and the player said "I know what you guys say about me" and Friedman was confused; player had a really skewed view and said that his family relays the info to him; Friedman gave the player his number and told the player if he ever had a problem to reach out to Friedman; then gave him some advice that the next time a family member or friend says "this is what a person said about you on television" telling that person that if they do it one more time, warn them they will be cut off from communication; next time he say the player, the player really appreciated what Friedman said because after getting that out of his life, he's not obsessing or brooding about
-if you're a friend of Pettersson and you're sending him clips or transcripts, you're not being a good friend; stop it
-if Rick Dhaliwal says anything, no one understands him because he talks to fast
-Canucks believe if Pettersson can get a little bit of a thicker skin, he will be unstoppable
-Pettersson needs to rediscover the fun he was having in his rookie year
-thinks there is still a great player there and the Canucks have to get that back out of him
 

Peter Griffin

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Crazy Rachel.
IMG_5933.png
 
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Phrasing

Registered User
Nov 16, 2007
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Very good. Here's mine.

Pettersson:
-last year the Canucks wanted a commit from Pettersson or the team was moving on
-there were those within the organization that were ready to trade him
-Canucks felt there was a level or two he needs to get two
-as great as he is, he needs to be tougher; some people are not wired that way but the Canucks feel he is
-don't want Rutherford, Allvin, or Tocchet to be the ones that push him in that direction; have told Miller and Hughes to get Pettersson to that level
-*laughs* Miller is taking this literally
-have been talks off the ice with Pettersson
-Hughes has been involved
-can't go too far with this
-Canucks feel it might be better if it comes from teammates rather than the coach or GM
-"Elias needs to get to another level. You all see it and we want you guys to get him there"
-teammates see it, understand it, and want to get Pettersson there
-the message comes harder, Miller, than some other guys, Hughes
-to be successful we have to be prepared to accept honest & tough criticism and that's what the Canucks are trying to do
-doesn't think Pettersson always likes the criticism
-doesn't know how serious it is but doesn't think he's completely healthy
-a lot of players prefer when criticism comes from the chain of command rather than teammates because they are supposed to have your back
-however, when your teammates are telling you that you aren't doing your best job, it has a greater impact
-someone called Friedman and told him that he's not going far enough on the Pettersson social media aspect
-Pettersson's friends are sending and telling him stuff
-a few years ago was doing the NHLPA media tour, a coach was able to text in the correct guess of which player, and the player said "I know what you guys say about me" and Friedman was confused; player had a really skewed view and said that his family relays the info to him; Friedman gave the player his number and told the player if he ever had a problem to reach out to Friedman; then gave him some advice that the next time a family member or friend says "this is what a person said about you on television" telling that person that if they do it one more time, warn them they will be cut off from communication; next time he say the player, the player really appreciated what Friedman said because after getting that out of his life, he's not obsessing or brooding about
-if you're a friend of Pettersson and you're sending him clips or transcripts, you're not being a good friend; stop it
-if Rick Dhaliwal says anything, no one understands him because he talks to fast
-Canucks believe if Pettersson can get a little bit of a thicker skin, he will be unstoppable
-Pettersson needs to rediscover the fun he was having in his rookie year
-thinks there is still a great player there and the Canucks have to get that back out of him
Subscribing to the Vector podcast + newsletter.
 

Burke's Evil Spirit

Registered User
Oct 29, 2002
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San Francisco
The only issue I see with going after a guy like Pulock is that unless you’re moving Willander the other way, which I’d be hesitant to do, you’re basically blocking his path to a top 4 spot for the foreseeable future. I suppose you could then move Willander in a separate move or just bring him along very slowly.

Personally, I feel the Canucks bigger need going forward is a legitimate top 4 LD that can anchor the 2nd pairing and 1st PK unit. I also feel a LD will be significantly cheaper than a comparable RD allowing us to keep Willander and have a solid top 4 of Hughes/Hronek, New Guy/Willander. A guy like Marcus Pettersson would make a lot of sense.

I don't agree with this at all. You'd ideally have Willander grow to offset Pulock's age-related decline. Hronek-Pulock-Willander could be the best right side in the league for the next half decade. And you'd have Hughes on the other side.
 

TruGr1t

Proper Villain
Jun 26, 2003
24,677
9,309
Pettersson stuff has been going on since they basically called him out for the playoff injury and not "toughing it out" in the post-season debriefs.
 

Vector

Moderator
Feb 2, 2007
27,144
45,689
Junktown


Pettersson:
-clear he is aware of the noise around him
-has no desire to discuss it with the media
-Drance believes the slow start should be viewed separately from last season's struggles
-has a better shot attempt rate and is drawing penalties at a normal rate now

Höglander:
-clearly had a great summer
-Garland said that the Philly game was Hoglander's best game, ever, as a pro
-Hoglander and Garland have a similar defensive game, according to Garland

Reassignments:
-seems like both Bains and Brännström will be recalled for Saturday
-Canucks now tolling $11,000 per day instead of about $2000
-if the Canucks can do this 20-30 times it'll add up
-determined to do their best to maximize cap flexibility
-fans and media will have to get to used to these types of transactions
-Canucks are thrilled with Bains development and what Brännström has accomplished

Paper Transactions:
-the reassignments technically not paper transactions
-paper transactions are for maintaining eligibility for AHL playoffs and these are actual loans

Top-4 Defence Upgrades:
-there's an internal sense that Brännström has earned a longer look
-his emergence doesn't stop them from looking at defensive upgrades
-management believes the club can never have enough NHL defencemen
-have identified the top-4 as an area for external improvement on the trade market
-curiosity about what Cole McWard might be able to bring to the Canucks lineup at some point this season
-Canucks will keep shopping but price will be high
 

JT Milker

Registered User
Mar 24, 2018
1,690
1,832


Pettersson:
-clear he is aware of the noise around him
-has no desire to discuss it with the media
-Drance believes the slow start should be viewed separately from last season's struggles
-has a better shot attempt rate and is drawing penalties at a normal rate now

Höglander:
-clearly had a great summer
-Garland said that the Philly game was Hoglander's best game, ever, as a pro
-Hoglander and Garland have a similar defensive game, according to Garland

Reassignments:
-seems like both Bains and Brännström will be recalled for Saturday
-Canucks now tolling $11,000 per day instead of about $2000
-if the Canucks can do this 20-30 times it'll add up
-determined to do their best to maximize cap flexibility
-fans and media will have to get to used to these types of transactions
-Canucks are thrilled with Bains development and what Brännström has accomplished

Paper Transactions:
-the reassignments technically not paper transactions
-paper transactions are for maintaining eligibility for AHL playoffs and these are actual loans

Top-4 Defence Upgrades:
-there's an internal sense that Brännström has earned a longer look
-his emergence doesn't stop them from looking at defensive upgrades
-management believes the club can never have enough NHL defencemen
-have identified the top-4 as an area for external improvement on the trade market
-curiosity about what Cole McWard might be able to bring to the Canucks lineup at some point this season
-Canucks will keep shopping but price will be high

Cole McWard will bring goals against to the Canucks’ lineup.
 

Peter Griffin

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I don't agree with this at all. You'd ideally have Willander grow to offset Pulock's age-related decline. Hronek-Pulock-Willander could be the best right side in the league for the next half decade. And you'd have Hughes on the other side.
What are you trading for Pulock? I mean, the Isles, even if they struggle, probably aren’t selling him off for cheap and probably asking for a younger, replacement if they move him.

If you can get him for a package based around a late 1st, sure.
 

Burke's Evil Spirit

Registered User
Oct 29, 2002
21,703
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San Francisco
What are you trading for Pulock? I mean, the Isles, even if they struggle, probably aren’t selling him off for cheap and probably asking for a younger, replacement if they move him.

If you can get him for a package based around a late 1st, sure.

1st + 2nd + Lekkerimaki would be my offer. Maybe another B piece (perhaps they want Raty back).
 

Peter Griffin

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Feb 13, 2003
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Visit site
1st + 2nd + Lekkerimaki would be my offer. Maybe another B piece (perhaps they want Raty back).
Yea I guess this is where we view things differently. I’d rather keep Lekk and go after what is likely a just as good, if not better defenseman, for the left side, should there be one available.

BTW, what are you doing with Myers and Desharnais in your scenario?
 

Burke's Evil Spirit

Registered User
Oct 29, 2002
21,703
8,049
San Francisco
Yea I guess this is where we view things differently. I’d rather keep Lekk and go after what is likely a just as good, if not better defenseman, for the left side, should there be one available.

BTW, what are you doing with Myers and Desharnais in your scenario?

Desharnais would probably be an offsetting salary going back for Pulock. Myers is on the 3rd pairing.

In your scenario, who is the Canucks #2 right-side D? Myers? And you expect to contend for a Cup with that?
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
55,603
91,297
Vancouver, BC
Elliotte’s thoughts on Pettersson are basically exactly what MS and others were saying in the since locked Pettersson thread.

No shit.

We’ve seen this player just totally shut down and stop competing 3 different times in his career and it’s been very obvious that it’s a mental thing and not minor injuries but people just don’t want to hear it.

He’s basically a more talented PL Dubois. Hopefully between the player/team they can figure it out.
 

BenningHurtsMySoul

Unfair Huggy Bear
Mar 18, 2008
26,391
13,618
Port Coquitlam, BC
Jfc...the Friedman interview on Pettersson is not great to have out in the open. He sounds miserable right now, if what is written is accurate.

I do agree that he needs to block out friends and family if they aren't doing anything but positively supporting him right now.

He really just needs to get back to basics, or quietly request/accept a trade to a low-key hockey market where he can just blend in with the general population. I think he's struggling with this level of fame/expectation and everything that comes with a massive contract.

To be honest, if he's miserable at least to me that shows he gives a f***. If he was complacent and just collecting a paycheck, that would be far more concerning. He isn't happy with his own level of play and wants to be better, just as much as his teammates and his fans want him to be better.
 
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arttk

Registered User
Feb 16, 2006
19,133
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Los Angeles
No shit.

We’ve seen this player just totally shut down and stop competing 3 different times in his career and it’s been very obvious that it’s a mental thing and not minor injuries but people just don’t want to hear it.

He’s basically a more talented PL Dubois. Hopefully between the player/team they can figure it out.
Are we ignoring the fact that Friedman said "he's still not 100%". It's like running a guy that is injured for 4 months and throwing shit on his wing ends up killing his confidence. If you read all the chatter, it's that Petey cares too much and then when he is not playing at that level it gets to his head and f***s with his confidence. That's the opposite of PLD, who actually don't give a f***.
 

BenningHurtsMySoul

Unfair Huggy Bear
Mar 18, 2008
26,391
13,618
Port Coquitlam, BC
3. I know he just signed the extension—but this feels an awful lot like a player and team that recognizes there needs to be a trade or fresh start for everyone involved. Clock is ticking before that NMC kicks in...

I'm about 75-80% sure (up from 50% in the offseason) that they are going to find a trade that works and move him. There is a reason they aren't activating the NMC until next season - they wanted more time to see how he responded.

This management era is operating much more like a business than the previous regime. Not unlike what we've seen with Vegas, and particularly when it comes to Benning-inherited players.

I don't think they were so gung-ho to get him under contract because they are in love with his game - he is a major asset that we could not afford to lose any leverage against, so they turned the screws to take all of his power away and force a deal.

Time will tell, I guess. But I'm slowly accepting that this is likely his last season with the Canucks, and this will be Hughes' team going forward as the true franchise player. It's very unfortunate, I own his jersey and he (along with BB6) brought life back to this city when it was in the morgue. Will always cherish the good times, regardless of what happens.
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
55,603
91,297
Vancouver, BC
Are we ignoring the fact that Friedman said "he's still not 100%". It's like running a guy that is injured for 4 months and throwing shit on his wing ends up killing his confidence. If you read all the chatter, it's that Petey cares too much and then when he is not playing at that level it gets to his head and f***s with his confidence. That's the opposite of PLD, who actually don't give a f***.

The Vancouver Canucks organization clearly does not agree with you.
 

Canucker

Go Hawks!
Oct 5, 2002
25,693
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Oak Point, Texas
No shit.

We’ve seen this player just totally shut down and stop competing 3 different times in his career and it’s been very obvious that it’s a mental thing and not minor injuries but people just don’t want to hear it.

He’s basically a more talented PL Dubois. Hopefully between the player/team they can figure it out.

It's very weird that you need to approach EP discussions with kid gloves around here...the guy is ultra-talented but quite obviously has some mental "quirks" but everyone is just supposed to lay off him and automatically buy into some rumored injuries that always seem to come up and used as an excuse for poor play...I'm not sure I'd label him like PLD, as he's pretty much damaged his relationship with every organization he's played for...but they do both seem to share odd personality traits.
 

BenningHurtsMySoul

Unfair Huggy Bear
Mar 18, 2008
26,391
13,618
Port Coquitlam, BC
It's non stop rumors and controversy about bad vibes every time this franchise has some period of success. Meanwhile we went 8 years with a joke GM and numerous questionable characters on our roster and there was crickets from the media.

One of the former regime managers was leaking them information. As soon as he was let go, they lost their inside scoop and started to lash out.
 

arttk

Registered User
Feb 16, 2006
19,133
11,038
Los Angeles
The Vancouver Canucks organization clearly does not agree with you.
How so? The whole Friedman speculation is that what they are doing now is to get him to another level or two and it's not just to get him back to who he was before. Friedman also mentioned that Petey is still not 100%.

I think it's obvious his confidence is down in the gutters. Confidence down in the gutters affecting performance is a different thing that PLD who historically just didn't give a f*** and his up and down has nothing to do with confidence.
 
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