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Bleach Clean said:
If you could, please clarify how you're evaluating transition ability (Edge data?). As to playmaking and shot rate, he compares to Garland for Assists/60, with 1.09 for Garland and 1.06 for Lindholm, and to JT in Shot Attempts/60, with 10.61 for JT and 11.2 for Lindholm. He's just not getting on net as often as he did.

Dubois' bounce back (who also had hard adjustments in LA and WPG, and then returned to form in WPG and now again in WSH) and the dearth of right-shot centres has me revisiting this.

At $7m AAV, all I would expect from Lindholm is 50ish points (top60 for centres). With the rapidly rising cap, that will be considered fair value.

Ironically, he's matching his regular season form (PPG) over in BOS. Once he adjusts, who knows?
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I'm still a pretty big Lindholm fan despite the lackluster numbers, I think a lot of his value comes from his defense, utility on special teams and his positional flexibility...I'd love to have him back, I really appreciate the way he plays the game...but I think $7m is still too high for a guy who "might" put up 50 points...his offense has really been trending in the wrong direction the last few years and then I look at some of his comps and $7m is just too much IMO...he did well for himself in free agency but I'm not sure how Boston, or an acquiring team handles that contract.
 
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Bgav said:
No fake Petey Miller rumors today?
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Teams are talking to each other, sources say that Vancouver is looking for potential 1C, 1D and 1W return in any package. So 3 prime assets for in return along with another 1st rounder, 2nd rounder and maybe another 1st and 2nd. Teams thinks the ask is a bit high so we are in a holding pattern.
Don't know who they prefer to trade but there are chatters about <insert player name> and that player could be added to the deal as well.
 
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bossram said:
Manually collected data from from Corey Sznajder, stuff like zone entries/exits, shot assists, chances taken, chance assists.

Also some stuff form public (but paid) services like Evolving Hockey's RAPM model and HockeyViz's Isolated Impact model. Both of which paint him as very mid (and for Isolated Impact, that is a generous description).

Ultimately, he's a middle-six center that I personally don't believe is even better than Pius Suter. He makes $7.75M on the cap. He's over 30 and shown some red flags regarding a decline. It's not a mystery why I am against it.
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Most are against it, I get it.

This is really about weighting the signs of decline against his career averages. Will he return or is this the new norm? You missed my edit, but my expectation is that he returns to a 50~ point form at some point. That is worth $7m AAV in a rising cap. (They would have to retain $750k)

Anyway, I'll check out Corey Sznajder. Just curious, what is he saying about how Heinen has done here?
 
Bleach Clean said:
Most are against it, I get it.

This is really about weighting the signs of decline against his career averages. Will he return or is this the new norm? You missed my edit, but my expectation is that he returns to a 50~ point form at some point. That is worth $7m AAV in a rising cap. (They would have to retain $750k)

Anyway, I'll check out Corey Sznajder. Just curious, what is he saying about how Heinen has done here?
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Its an insane trade idea. We should be trying to target players who may out perform their contracts, not players who, if they bounce back, will still only provide very mediocre value and probably only for less than half of their contract. The upside is that you are paying a THIRTY year old $7 million dollars a year to be a 50 point player that is defensively good? And he's got six more years left! What is he going to look like from ages 34-37 of that contract. And not only that, but at least at this time, Miller's current cap hit is still quite good value. A player coming off a 100 point season, and on pace for a point per game, and making $8 million dollars per year. I get the idea of getting rid of Miller's contract before its clearly bad value, but the reality is, we haven't got to that point, and so it really doesn't make sense even entertaining the idea of taking on a bad contract for him.

Like @bossram said, Pius Suter is basically providing similar value to Lindholm, and the goal should be finding another Pius Suter, or frankly even if you can't, you'd be better off overpaying Pius Suter than taking on Lindholm's albatross contract.
 
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Hodgy said:
Its an insane trade idea. We should be trying to target players who may out perform their contracts, not players who, if they bounce back, will still only provide very mediocre value and probably only for less than half of their contract. The upside is that you are paying a THIRTY year old $7 million dollars a year to be a 50 point player that is defensively good? And he's got six more years left! What is he going to look like from ages 34-37 of that contract. And not only that, but at least at this time, Miller's current cap hit is still quite good value. A player coming off a 100 point season, and on pace for a point per game, and making $8 million dollars per year. I get the idea of getting rid of Miller's contract before its clearly bad value, but the reality is, we haven't got to that point, and so it really doesn't make sense even entertaining the idea of taking on a bad contract for him.

Like @bossram said, Pius Suter is basically providing similar value to Lindholm, and the goal should be finding another Pius Suter, or frankly even if you can't, you'd be better off overpaying Pius Suter than taking on Lindholm's albatross contract.
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The hyperbole is rich considering...

The premise depends upon Miller having to leave. If he doesn't, then they don't need another C back.

Good luck trying to find a 2C+ without adopting risk.
 
Was fiddling around with Puckpedia's daily cap tracker. Canucks currently have about 2.37m in cap space. With a healthy roster (Joshua activated & Lekkerimaki in the AHL by the beginning of next week) that puts the Canucks at around 4.57m by the beginning of the 4 Nations Tournament (season is paused on Feb. 10th) and 7.3m by the Trade Deadline.

If we include Hoglander & Desharnais as possible contracts that could be moved out, that gives the Canucks quite a bit of flexibility.
 
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Vector said:
Was fiddling around with Puckpedia's daily cap tracker. Canucks currently have about 2.37m in cap space. With a healthy roster (Joshua activated & Lekkerimaki in the AHL by the beginning of next week) that puts the Canucks at around 4.57m by the beginning of the 4 Nations Tournament (season is paused on Feb. 10th) and 7.3m by the Trade Deadline.

If we include Hoglander & Desharnais as possible contracts that could be moved out, that gives the Canucks quite a bit of flexibility.
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I think this is a big reason why we won't see a trade till the deadline nears. Management will want to see how the team does when relatively healthy, and they'll want to follow through on the plan to create an opportunity with accrued cap space. (Yes, i realize I'm not saying anything you don't know. Sometimes my own posts strike me as having been written by a bot.)
 
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Lindgren said:
I think this is a big reason why we won't see a trade till the deadline nears. Management will want to see how the team does when relatively healthy, and they'll want to follow through on the plan to create an opportunity with accrued cap space. (Yes, i realize I'm not saying anything you don't know. Sometimes my own posts strike me as having been written by a bot.)
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I wouldn't be surprised if they do something in the beginning of February before the 4 Nations Tournament and find a way to keep accruing so they have a bit to play with in the rental market at the deadline.
 
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Lindholm is quite frankly a lazy player who has played checked-out, passive hockey for 3 years now in the regular season with three different teams.

In the playoffs last year he suddenly engaged (check out what happened to his hit totals - it's actually insane) and immediately looked like a totally different player.

If you could get the 2024 Playoffs version of Lindholm he's worth 7 million. But I sure as hell wouldn't be betting on getting that guy when he's disappeared for this long in the regular season and is now on the wrong side of 30.
 
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Not that I want them to trade Miller but the Vancouver Canucks & Columbus Blue Jackets would not agree for a Miller for Fantili swap

My apologies if this confused or misled anyone definitely not my intention
 
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I’m totally reaching here, but Dhaliwal jokingly said to don “are you gonna complain for the next 8 years” (about Petey). i feel like he knows Petey ain’t getting traded
 
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Dreger interview mid-way through. Most interesting part is that Dreger almost flat-out says that the Kraken front office are a bit of a mess.

Lankinen
  • Doesn’t know how hard the Canucks are pushing to get an extension done
  • Thinks Lankinen is solely focused on playing hockey
  • Believes Lankinen will wait to negotiate
  • Mentions how Demko’s health can change the direction of negotiations
  • Doesn’t think a 4m by 4 year extension would “wow” his agents
Hronek
  • Participated in contact practice in Abbotsford
Ryan O’Reilly
  • His name is kind of making the rounds
  • Can visualize him being a good fit with Tocchet
  • A trade feels more likely in the off-season
Boston Bruins
  • Doesn’t see any sort of fit from the Bruins that would interest the Canucks in a prospective trade for J.T. Miller
  • Not much contracts talks between the Bruins and Trent Frederic or Justin Brazeau
  • Very thin prospect pool apart from Matthew Poitras
  • Bruins have been overachieving for a while
  • Thinks they might need more than a re-tool but rather a “full-scale renovation”; doesn’t see J.T. Miller wanting to be part of that
Canucks
  • It has all settled down in Vancouver, in regards to Miller & Pettersson
Seattle Kraken
  • Thinks it’s misplaced to think Ron Francis’ job is in trouble
  • Lots of cooks in their kitchen
  • Toes have been stepped on from a hockey operations perspective
  • A lot going on there that we will never find out about
  • Ron Francis will never tell if he’s being manipulated or going over his head
 
timw33 said:
Lindholm can't even pace for 20-goals and 50-points playing first unit PP minutes and being tried several times with David Pastrnak.

He gets a ton of rope from that 40-goal 90 point anomaly season playing with 2x 110 point players, so much so that even 3-4 years later he's securing a 50MM contract.
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With the way Gaudreau and Tkachuk were playing he essentially was tagging on with McDavid and Draisaitl for a year not just at ES but on the PP.
Lindholm was a 55pt 2C. Now that he's in his 30s he's the epitome of land mine long term deal and that's quickly coming to fruition. The poor season with coming to UFA made it pretty apparent he was a high risk. Looks good on the Bruins
 
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A bit surprised the Lankinen extension isn't announced yet, but I'll be shocked if it's not done before tdl.


Also Dreger doesn't know sh*t about the canucks but the ROR and kraken info is interesting, two teams that are good trade candidates, possible steals. (Can't see ROR outside the east tho)
 
VanillaCoke said:
A bit surprised the Lankinen extension isn't announced yet, but I'll be shocked if it's not done before tdl.


Also Dreger doesn't know sh*t about the canucks but the ROR and kraken info is interesting, two teams that are good trade candidates, possible steals. (Can't see ROR outside the east tho)
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what do you think they are gonna pay or should pay
 
Bleach Clean said:
The hyperbole is rich considering...

The premise depends upon Miller having to leave. If he doesn't, then they don't need another C back.

Good luck trying to find a 2C+ without adopting risk.
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To be fair there are levels of risk as any player you require carries some degree of it. However jumping off the deep end and just going to that end of the spectrum right off the bat is wise

Never mind the fact that just in general we would become that much more bland
 
sting101 said:
what do you think they are gonna pay or should pay
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Anything less than Daccord is a deal for the organization.
Demko Lankinen is top 3 in the nhl and still cheaper than many(most?) teams, we cannot afford to give it up now, Especially knowing Lankinen wants to be here.

If he gets to UFA someone is giving him twenty - twenty five mils. And if it's Edmonton then canucks should just shoot themselves in the dong.
 
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