Grub's Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Go Your Own Way

[Peter Griffin]

The Brock Nelson stuff seems to be coming exclusively from Stefen Rosner.

Yea he made a “proposal” involving him and now he seems to be trying to will it into fruition or in his case, clicks. Isles’ fans don’t seem to have very high opinions of his sources.

 

[vancityluongo]

Miller
Hughes
Pettersson
Demko
Hronek
Boeser

I am more and more convinced that this is Vegas-style cap accumulation and load management. They'll add an $8M d-man at or before the deadline from a team that needs to off load a contract, everyone will be back for the playoffs, and they'll be absolute beasts!
Plan the parade!!

jokes aside, the basis is there for this.

we're still in a wildcard spot. the teams chasing us are heavily flawed.

if the miller/pettersson situation is truly nuclear, wait until the draft to deal with it. see if things (mostly health) can come together for another playoff run.

it'd be a different story if one or both were on expiring contracts.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

No, but even laymen were warning about the lack of attention to the blue line in the summer, for basically those exact reasons. It wasn't hard to see it going wrong. They made the conscious decision to go cheap on defensemen.

They can rectify their mistakes by going into this summer and signing both *drum roll*





Brian Dumoulin and Olli Maata!


That loud ass sound was Vector's head exploding. Sorry, but we know Gavrikov is Vegas bound.

 

[sting101]

I'm surprised that Miller doesn't want to move unless it's because he doesn't want to uproot his family. The team isn't winning shit and he must be uncomfortable as hell in that room right now.

You are being really dramatic

 

[valkynax]

Yes, I'd agree that's now the best course of action. But it's also a massive failure by management that they are in this position.

Like with many things, factors contributing to the outcome are complicated and difficult to single them out. In this case, I can understand them wanting to stay the course, I can further understand that at this moment it would be difficult to make a winning trade even if it means the fans will be pissed, and of course specifically Hughes and Hronek both out are not foreseeable outcomes from the start of the season.

That being said, this is a league run by results and results only, period. When the results aren't there, people will ask questions. People will especially ask thorny questions with red hot barbs, if results aren't there AND there are mistakes that are so glaring they are impossible to ignore AND they refuse/are unable to fix them, even to the most dimwitted individuals such as myself.

 

[arttk]

Thats possible...but seems like a bit of a red herring to me, the only real reason to be looking for a center is if you have a need for one and the only real need for one is if they trade one of theirs. They need to fix their defense, then they could use a winger who can pot a few goals, center seems like a position they're ok with (could be improved but doesn't seem imperative), so unless they move one I'm not sure what the plan would be? Unless its to bring in a center prospect for the farm?

I mean we are missing a RH center, that is a giant ass hole on our roster.

 

[Canucker]

I mean we are missing a RH center, that is a giant ass hole on our roster.

I guess...I wouldn't consider it a giant hole, but it is a hole....not sure you need a dedicated RH center to fill that hole....that was the nice thing about Lindholm, a RH guy who can slot on either the wing or center, win some draws and can play up and down the lineup. For a dedicated center, who does he replace? Likely won't be EP, Blueger or Miller though...ideally another RH winger for EP who can win draws.

 

[sting101]

The gamble was that they could hold it together and that Forbort and Desharnais would be good enough to play 3rd pairing D and not hurt us until they find the 2/3 D that they know we need.

When they moved off Zadorov because he isn't a 2/3 and 5.5million would have stolen from that pot of money... this was the gamble.

We all saw it. It was almost unilateral that this could be a REAL problem if Hughes or Hronek got hurt. It happened Hronek out long term

On the flip side. They added Debrusk and Sherwood up front which makes us better

 

[TruGr1t]

The gamble was that they could hold it together and that Forbort and Desharnais would be good enough to play 3rd pairing D and not hurt us until they find the 2/3 D that they know we need.

When they moved off Zadorov because he isn't a 2/3 and 5.5million would have stolen from that pot of money... this was the gamble.

We all saw it. It was almost unilateral that this could be a REAL problem if Hughes or Hronek got hurt. It happened Hronek out long term

On the flip side. They added Debrusk and Sherwood up front which makes us better

They also opted to stick with Myers at $3M AAV on a 3-year term, and gambled that the pairing with Soucy would maintain something comparable to the form over the back-half of last season, which it obviously has not. They also did not upgrade on Juulsen/Friedman as depth, or add really NHL depth outside what they already had in the organization.

 

[sting101]

They also opted to stick with Myers at $3M AAV on a 3-year term, and gambled that the pairing with Soucy would maintain something comparable to the form over the back-half of last season, which it obviously has not. They also did not upgrade on Juulsen/Friedman as depth, or add really NHL depth outside what they already had in the organization.

They had a tough start. Soucy in particular was poor

Bottom line is the AAV those players have is IMO a plan/cap to be able to acquire a 2/3D

The hard part is getting Byram without giving up Willander

 

[Vector]

Lankinen

• Canucks can now extend Lankinen
• Two sides have touched base and initial conversations have happened
• Will get a big raise and want term

Boeser

• Very quiet
• Lots of work to do before a deal gets done

 

[God]

on the other hand, if you told any of us that they would be in a wild card spot at the mid point of the season while knowing the D would not be great (and would get an upgrade at some point), i think that'd be pretty acceptable.

if i were allvin/rutherford, i probably would not kick the problem down the road, but that's just me.

 

[TruGr1t]

Boeser

• Very quiet
• Lots of work to do before a deal gets done

Boeser is gone, in my opinion. I think there's about zero chance management will be comfortable with the term he'll be seeking.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

f*** it.

Waited so long on a potential EP or JT trade, just keep riding it out.

Burn baby burn.

Just waiting for a 1st to be traded instead for a dman and yet we still miss the playoffs.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I think the optimal course of action is to wait on Miller and Petey until the offseason too. Unless some desperate/dumb team offers something decent for Miller, in which case he can go now.

Yes, at the time of Allvin's hiring I was more in favour of a "rebuild" (though for me that would not include trading away Petey or Quinn). Took a lot heat for it at the time. Honestly I think Allvin has mostly proved me wrong and largely threaded the narrow window to make the team competitive quickly, but in the longer-term I think I'll be right that in the end their ceiling is capped and they can't be a true contender with the current direction.

From my recollection, the argument was about true contention, not merely being competitive. If accurate, you were not proven wrong. They are not a true contender, even with Allvin hitting at a high rate.

That phrase "rebuild [while keeping Pettersson and Hughes]" and "slow re-tool" were deemed to be nonsensical here. Fantasy land material. Particularly, by one key poster, and then a large contingent followed suit. Little consideration for nuance. But there will be a time to take all of this to account later.

I'm going to go back and re-read the exchanges to be sure.

A lot of us wanted the slow re-tool. I don't remember anyone wanting a rebuild (EP+Hughes traded). The "compete immediately" crowd was very loud but they weren't actually arguing against people who wanted to rebuild, just against people who believed a turnaround in less than two years was impossible so we should act according to that timeline.

Allvin's plan is crumbling around his inability to fix the d. I agree with you that we should keep both JT/EP unless forced to move one.

Other than the weirdness around JT, I think the entire conversation around our forwards is nonsense and we're getting victimized by the complete lack of a 2nd pairing and injuries.

Hughes is incredible but even so, there shouldn't be a gap of contender while he's on the ice, bottom feeder when he's not, it's a massively exaggerated deficit because of how bad the d is and it's a marked failure by PA that we're 3 years into his tenure with a pile of futures and buyouts used up and still only have two legitimate top 4 d.

Yeah, the Defense corps. is bad. I'm not even sure Hronek is fair value without Hughes, but it is what it is: One of the worst D Corps in the league.

I'm still not sure of their ceiling even with an OK defense (like last year). They still lack top6 talent imo. However, the defense would have to be fixed first in order to know.

I think the compete immediately crowd did argue against a full tear down rebuild [trading Hughes and Pettersson). Which was the correct take. Arguing against the slower re-tool though, was not. The two alternatives got lumped together against compete now.

Anyway, after management has committed so much to making this go, I'd rather see it rebound than to pick apart the bones. Glad MVP Hughes and Pettersson are back.

 

[wonton15]

Re-sign Lankinen tonight cowards

 

[Diversification]

I mean we are missing a RH center, that is a giant ass hole on our roster.

No, that would be JT Miller.

 

[F A N]

jokes aside, the basis is there for this.

we're still in a wildcard spot. the teams chasing us are heavily flawed.

if the miller/pettersson situation is truly nuclear, wait until the draft to deal with it. see if things (mostly health) can come together for another playoff run.

it'd be a different story if one or both were on expiring contracts.

I pretty much agree. Only I would say is that if the situation is deemed unworkable and the decision to trade one of them has been made then a good deal is a good deal. If there is a desperate team to take advantage of then we might as well pull the trigger. It is harder to pull of an in-season blockbuster deal involving roster players.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Dreamland Lankinen contract extension - 4x4.

Realistically anything under twenty five millions total dollars is probably a bargain for the organization..

 

[Vector]

What the Canucks is going on in Vancouver?

WTC, indeed. We talked about it for the last month, and everyone figured things would die down after both Elias Pettersson and J.T. Miller poured water on their rift speculation – albeit after Vancouver captain Quinn Hughes and Head Coach Rick Tocchet acknowledged and addressed it. Then, Canucks GM Patrik Allvin gave a very candid interview about his team’s performance and the spotlight promptly brightened on the team’s situation.

What we know, as we and others have reported, is the Canucks are taking calls on Miller and Pettersson. We also know their conversations with other clubs are not exclusive to those two players – they are exploring additional ways to improve their hockey team, like trading for a top-four defenceman and adding an offensive mid-six winger.

There is clearly frustration in the dressing room over the Miller/Pettersson ordeal. They managed to keep things in check last season, but it’s boiled over again this campaign, and here we are.

As Allvin and Canucks President Jim Rutherford evaluate their options, there are no guarantees one of these star centres (let alone both) is traded during the season. Or at all.

Teams like the Buffalo Sabres, Detroit Red Wings, Minnesota Wild and New York Rangers will continue to be linked to either/both players – and there are other teams poking around, obviously – but the Canucks feel they have the base of a team capable of competing for a championship and nobody wants to derail that. Vancouver will almost certainly give up the best current player in any trade, but the return will have to align with their objective of chasing a Stanley Cup, even in package form.

The Rangers covet Miller. Great, but does New York have an appetite to include Alexis Lafreniere, not Mike Zibanejad, as the centrepiece of a large return?

The Sabres want Pettersson. Okay, but would they package Owen Power, not Bowen Byram, with Dylan Cozens to make it happen?

The Wild like both players, and while the belief around the NHL is they are still willing to move young centre Marco Rossi, who’s having a great season and was just named the NHL’s first star of the past week, in a major move for one of them that would include additional pieces, how can they make this work, this season, cap wise?

And (maybe I’m wrong) I’m not overly convinced the Red Wings have the desire to move any of their top young studs for either guy.
There are many hurdles when dealing a player of Miller and Pettersson’s stature and the Canucks cannot afford to mishandle this. They’re both locked into long-term deals and are controllable. Neither player has asked for a trade. If any move happens, Allvin & Co. must be confident it makes their team better, overall – and some may argue eliminating any unnecessary stress inside their room will be an added bonus.

The Canucks’ management brass prefers to make their moves well in advance of the trade deadline, which is two months and one day away, but a blockbuster of this nature won’t be rushed, even with discussions ongoing.

And as they juggle these conversations, they have other negotiations to deal with in an attempt to improve their roster.

It’s never a dull moment in Vancouver, and these next two months should remain entertaining.

 

[Bleach Clean]

**Sat Shah saying Pettersson is unlikely to be the one moved. (from what he's hearing)

Someone made this point the other day and Dhaliwal is on about it today that PA and JR coming from Pittsburgh and being exposed to Crosby has them measuring Pettersson to that standard.

Donny questions his leg strength and core work and why they didn't wait to see more of it before the contract they handed out

My issue with the situation...

The contract and the expectations are the problem.

It's odd to me that EP40 wouldn't leave money on the table back his words about wanting to win and support PA and JR who have come in and made a situation where Pettersson and Hughes could win a cup. Furthermore if he took less the narrative and pressure to be a top5 paid player changes.

Because 'wanting to win' is a hockey player platitude, nothing more.

He did take less than he could have gotten. $13m~ AAV wasn't out of the question.

The irony of Allvin's statement is that he hasn't set the team up for a cup win. Yet, he's calling out the sub-standard performance of another.

Exhibit A:

No, but even laymen were warning about the lack of attention to the blue line in the summer, for basically those exact reasons. It wasn't hard to see it going wrong. They made the conscious decision to go cheap on defensemen.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

^That article feels to me like he was fed what Vancouver wants from those teams, as those teams have clearly leaked what they're willing to give up.

 

[Rowlet]

What the Canicks is going on in Vancouver?

WTC, indeed. We talked about it for the last month, and everyone figured things would die down after both Elias Pettersson and J.T. Miller poured water on their rift speculation – albeit after Vancouver captain Quinn Hughes and Head Coach Rick Tocchet acknowledged and addressed it. Then, Canucks GM Patrik Allvin gave a very candid interview about his team’s performance and the spotlight promptly brightened on the team’s situation.

What we know, as we and others have reported, is the Canucks are taking calls on Miller and Pettersson. We also know their conversations with other clubs are not exclusive to those two players – they are exploring additional ways to improve their hockey team, like trading for a top-four defenceman and adding an offensive mid-six winger.

There is clearly frustration in the dressing room over the Miller/Pettersson ordeal. They managed to keep things in check last season, but it’s boiled over again this campaign, and here we are.

As Allvin and Canucks President Jim Rutherford evaluate their options, there are no guarantees one of these star centres (let alone both) is traded during the season. Or at all.

Teams like the Buffalo Sabres, Detroit Red Wings, Minnesota Wild and New York Rangers will continue to be linked to either/both players – and there are other teams poking around, obviously – but the Canucks feel they have the base of a team capable of competing for a championship and nobody wants to derail that. Vancouver will almost certainly give up the best current player in any trade, but the return will have to align with their objective of chasing a Stanley Cup, even in package form.

The Rangers covet Miller. Great, but does New York have an appetite to include Alexis Lafreniere, not Mike Zibanejad, as the centrepiece of a large return?

The Sabres want Pettersson. Okay, but would they package Owen Power, not Bowen Byram, with Dylan Cozens to make it happen?

The Wild like both players, and while the belief around the NHL is they are still willing to move young centre Marco Rossi, who’s having a great season and was just named the NHL’s first star of the past week, in a major move for one of them that would include additional pieces, how can they make this work, this season, cap wise?

And (maybe I’m wrong) I’m not overly convinced the Red Wings have the desire to move any of their top young studs for either guy.
There are many hurdles when dealing a player of Miller and Pettersson’s stature and the Canucks cannot afford to mishandle this. They’re both locked into long-term deals and are controllable. Neither player has asked for a trade. If any move happens, Allvin & Co. must be confident it makes their team better, overall – and some may argue eliminating any unnecessary stress inside their room will be an added bonus.

The Canucks’ management brass prefers to make their moves well in advance of the trade deadline, which is two months and one day away, but a blockbuster of this nature won’t be rushed, even with discussions ongoing.

And as they juggle these conversations, they have other negotiations to deal with in an attempt to improve their roster.

It’s never a dull moment in Vancouver, and these next two months should remain entertaining.

As usual Yzerman doesn't have the stones to make a franchise altering trade

 

[arttk]

No, that would be JT Miller.

you got me

 

[Peen]

Are there any big Marco Rossi fans on this board?