Grub's Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Early Trade Deadline

[Vector]

What does this mean? Like he has some juicy news but someone told him he is not allowed to share until Jan 23? Or was it a joke?

Joke. He realizes he’s a big reason this has spiralled and as recompense he won’t talk about the Canucks for a month.

 

[TruGr1t]

The questions from the local media aren't the problem. The players & team have not been in alignment in how they've answered questions about it, which just fans the flames. Everyone could've easily come out and said "no issue," or "there's an issue, we're working on it," etc. etc. - but they didn't. Hughes & Tocchet said one thting, Petey & Miller another.

Regardless, both these guys can put this to bed by just playing better. The blueline is a mess, but you'd hope your 20 million investment in your top 2 centers could help overcome it.

Anything systems related is just nonsense - these two guys played in the exact same system last year. A slight drop off is fine given the blueline, but turning into pumpkins offensively is crazy. Teddy bleeping Blueger has as many goals at ES as Miller & Petey COMBINED. That'ts not a winning formula.

They have about 10-15 games to figure this out before management has to make some tough decisions on the future direction of the team.

I'd agree the main issue is that everyone not named Hughes has ranged from inconsistent to bad on this team, and the bad locker room situation is probably largely driven by the team taking a major step back more than anything else. As mentioned above, it also seems to me the local media was only dragged into covering this after a bunch of out-of-market reports made it into a thing. Most local beat guys have known about tension between the two players for years, and a bunch have explicitly said they didn't have much interest in covering it again.

 

[supercanuck]

Joke. He realizes he’s a big reason this has spiralled and as recompense he won’t talk about the Canucks for a month.

Thanks @Vector!

 

[Jerry the great]

I still think Bowen Byram is our #1 target. We were probably looking at a package for Byram and Greenway but now Greenway is out long term with a major injury. ( i think we go after Greenway in free agency)

Maybe Byram and Zucker now.

One thing about the make-up of our team is we are sooo perimeter based. Debrusk and Joshua are probably the only players i can think off that lives around the crease.

Zucker is that drive hard to the blue type that i think we need or a player with that style. Another name that plays that style is Kreider.


Byram
Zucker

for

1st
4th
Lekkerimaki
Krudstyev
Hoglander

I think we're giving up an insane amount here to address our LHD hole. And how is this supposed to work financially? ~$9MM in and only $1.1 out.

IMO Zucker has little value to us on an expiring deal where he's getting above MV for what he brings (considering he's not going to be on PP1). not sure why he'd be in the deal.

1st + either Lekkerimaki OR Kudryavtsev should be roughly right value wise though Buffalo may not like either of those guys enough to get something done.

If Buffalo is looking for NHL bodies, I can see either Hoglander or VD (or both!) being thrown in to make the money work.

1st + 2nd + Hoglander/VD for Byram.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

I have heard this a couple places, but it ignores the fact most of the reports that caused the stir came from out-of-market ... I'm looking at you Elliotte Friedman, Spittin' Chiclets, and Andy Strickland.

Yeah. “I can’t believe this is such a big story getting so much talk and airplay”….say the guys who are talking about it and airing it non stop.

 

[quat]

I can't help but roll my eyes when reading any media "personalities" blame the market for all this nonsense. Its like we get to blame some nebulous idea for our own lack of integrity.

Of course this hockey market is bizarre and at times awful, but it's not actively seeking the lowest common denominator discussion topics.

It's also fine to ask pertinent questions, but to focus entirely on personalities when there are so many other pressing concerns, ie management's complete miss read on their ability to develop the majority of the defence, or why they haven't improved the PP, shows a real lack of judgement.

But yeah, it's all just this market.

 

[Hodgy]

Donnie and Rick chat about another chapter in the Miller/Pettersson soap opera​

Wasn't Dhali on last week defending the media arguing that the Petey and Miller thing wasn't created by the media? Seems like he's taken a pretty big180 here. May have got a talking to from Grandpa Rutherford.

 

[krutovsdonut]

i am usually pretty down on the media but hughes and tochett just did media appearances that blew this thing up. they obviously planned to do that. so i don't blame the media any more than i blame my dog if i throw a steak at him and then try and command him to sit.

my take is the team has had it with both ep40 and jt and they threw them both under the bus to get it resolved one way or another by exposing both of their reputations to criticism. allvin came close to doing the same although he spoke strictly about performance. whether or not rutherford or allvin approved the limited hangout or it was a captain/coach decision i can't say. that rutherford is very skilled at working the media in these situations with plausible deniability is something i can say.

sidebar, but this whole thing reminds me of the weird ufo thing going on in the us right now with the endless ambiguous congressional hearings and government statements. nobody is quite saying anything definitive, but it sure feels like we're being prepared for something that might come as a shock if it happened all at once.

 

[lawrence]

i am usually pretty down on the media but hughes and tochett just did media appearances that blew this thing up. they obviously planned to do that. so i don't blame the media any more than i blame my dog if i throw a steak at him and then try and command him to sit.

my take is the team has had it with both ep40 and jt and they threw them both under the bus to get it resolved one way or another by exposing both of their reputations to criticism. allvin came close to doing the same although he spoke strictly about performance. whether or not rutherford or allvin approved the limited hangout or it was a captain/coach decision i can't say. that rutherford is very skilled at working the media in these situations with plausible deniability is something i can say.

sidebar, but this whole thing reminds me of the weird ufo thing going on in the us right now with the endless ambiguous congressional hearings and government statements. nobody is quite saying anything definitive, but it sure feels like we're being prepared for something that might come as a shock if it happened all at once.

There just drones bro.

And I’m a UFO believer. But there just drones.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Jesus Christ save me from the virtue signalling media (and I usually hate when people say 'virtue signalling').


They don't. So they sell drama. It's exhausting, tedious, and deleterious.

Hey,

Really bad ADHD moment. But I had someone read this for me. Pretty much nailed it.

 

[TruGr1t]

The defense is an off-season issue, it's not fixable this year. Even if you get Hronek back 100% and pick up one more top-four guy, you've probably got a shit bottom pair. Need some rookies to contribute next year to fix it fully.

 

[Tact]

The defense is an off-season issue, it's not fixable this year. Even if you get Hronek back 100% and pick up one more top-four guy, you've probably got a shit bottom pair. Need some rookies to contribute next year to fix it fully.

With JRPA anything is possible

 

[Vector]

The defense is an off-season issue, it's not fixable this year. Even if you get Hronek back 100% and pick up one more top-four guy, you've probably got a shit bottom pair. Need some rookies to contribute next year to fix it fully.

Hopefully, and it’s always a crap shoot, one to two of the Pettersson/Kudryavtsev/Willander trio can make an impact next season. At the very least, management has drafted some promising players.

Others would probably include McWard but I really don’t see much in him.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I think a lot of fans completely mislead themselves after last season. We had a good year but our team make-up was fundamentally flawed with very little cap space to upgrade this season. Plus the ugly OEL hits coming up in the next two years. As such, and I agree with the direction, they completely focused on the forwards and hoped a patchwork D could keep the team afloat until upgrades could be found.

Personally, I was totally prepared for the team and the D to struggle this season. With Willander coming it didn't make sense to go sign a big money RD, or a big money 3rd pairing LD, ala Zadorov. This was always a long term plan to address the D properly, not blow our wad on some expensive longer contract temporary fill ins concentrated to compete this season while screwing the team cap wise moving forward. The contracts they signed are very short term and give them quite a bit of flexibility to fix the D once and for all.

For the sake of argument, and because we're all very familiar with him, say we signed Tanev to exactly the contract Toronto gave him. Even with the addition 1M, we'd still be able to cover the cost since Desharnais and Forbort wouldn't be here.

That still gives Willander a future transition path from the third pairing to, hopefully, pushing Tanev down as he gets older. In the mean time though, we'd have someone actually reliable until Willlander is ready for that responsible.

There would a bit of a cap squeeze next year but it's workable. Would be even easier if we didn't sign Heinen or, even better, didn't sign Myers.

The point here is we could have gotten a good player, be it Tanev or whoever else, and still made everything work, OEL buyout and all. They chose a patchwork defense, hoping for a cheap fix. And it blew up in our faces.

 

[David71]

Vancouver media is sooo trash. Its almost a version of TMZ. They just try to keep beating the same dead horse over and over again. People tune them out, then they wonder why Bell and TSn and Sportsnet have them as first in line when trying to trim the fat off the payroll.


Its Pros vs Ametuer when you compare Vancouver media opposed to a big city Market like LA or NEW York or Chicago when it comes to medica content. Vancouver is soooo far behind.

its vancouver VMZ. thats how toxic our market is. doesnt matter which reporter. one reporter like johnson will say thing another will say something totally different like sekeres.

 

[Leif Rohlin]

For the sake of argument, and because we're all very familiar with him, say we signed Tanev to exactly the contract Toronto gave him. Even with the addition 1M, we'd still be able to cover the cost since Desharnais and Forbort wouldn't be here.

That still gives Willander a future transition path from the third pairing to, hopefully, pushing Tanev down as he gets older. In the mean time though, we'd have someone actually reliable until Willlander is ready for that responsible.

There would a bit of a cap squeeze next year but it's workable. Would be even easier if we didn't sign Heinen or, even better, didn't sign Myers.

The point here is we could have gotten a good player, be it Tanev or whoever else, and still made everything work, OEL buyout and all. They chose a patchwork defense, hoping for a cheap fix. And it blew up in our faces.

Edmonton signed Troy Stecher for league minimum. He'd be better than 3 of the defensemen we had in our lineup tonight.

 

[Peen]

Joke. He realizes he’s a big reason this has spiralled and as recompense he won’t talk about the Canucks for a month.

Dhali talked about this today. It makes no sense that the local media are getting the most flack about everything going on given that Frank Snob and EF were the ones who originally brought all this to the public front, and that's because someone told them. It also doesn't make sense that there are people purely going at the local media who are given no access to this team and that's the fault of PR who isn't prepping players either.

But, he still owns a part of it and said that there isn't much of a point in talking more about it.

 

[F A N]

The defense is an off-season issue, it's not fixable this year. Even if you get Hronek back 100% and pick up one more top-four guy, you've probably got a shit bottom pair. Need some rookies to contribute next year to fix it fully.

I wouldn't necessarily say that the D isn't fixable this year. If Hronek is back 100% and we can get a top 4 D that elevates either Soucy or Myers that can make a huge difference. Like if we get a healthy Marcus Pettersson and he somehow finds chemistry with Myers and Forbort can play well with Soucy, that can make a huge difference. Acquiring a veteran D to play on the bottom pair is also quite doable. The difficulty is acquiring that top 4 Dman.

 

[VanJack]

The defense is an off-season issue, it's not fixable this year. Even if you get Hronek back 100% and pick up one more top-four guy, you've probably got a shit bottom pair. Need some rookies to contribute next year to fix it fully.

Totally agree. Even with Hronek back and a rental like Zadorov last season, the Canuck still couldn't get out of the second round.

I think it's 'plug and play' time for Wilander once his BU season is done. And I'd pair him with Elias Pettersson II, who'll have benefitted from a full season in the minors.

Will they struggle at times? Probably. But I swear if I have to watch another 20 games of Forbort, Juulsen, Desharnais and even Myers at times, I'm going to be tempted to gouge out my eyeballs.

 

[Cancuks]

I'm starting a rumor. Desharnais for Luke Schenn. I have "sources." Let's see if it makes the media.

 

[JanBulisPiggyBack]

I'm starting a rumor. Desharnais for Luke Schenn. I have "sources." Let's see if it makes the media.

I'm gonna interject here and change some of your wording, if you really want your insider information to make it to the top you need to get your phrasing right

Desharnais for Luke Hughes. I have "sources."

#elliotefriedman #chrisfaber #satiarshah

#isCancuksactuallyhockeywidow?????

 

[thecupismine]

The defense is an off-season issue, it's not fixable this year. Even if you get Hronek back 100% and pick up one more top-four guy, you've probably got a shit bottom pair. Need some rookies to contribute next year to fix it fully.

Not sure I agree. For arguments sake let’s say the guy they acquire is able to saw off their minutes at a 45% expected goal rate, which is hardly a big ask (slightly below Ian Cole’s level last year).

I’m usually defensive of Tocchet, but let’s say he also pulls his head out of his ass and plays Brannstrom on the third pairing in soft minutes, and he’s able to put up 47-50% expected goal rate (reasonable given his early season performance imo).

At that point, the defense is passable given how stupidly dominant Hughes and Hronek have been when they played together. The issue right now is those other pairings are sub 40 because no one can pass the puck.

I don’t think the asks are that difficult on the other pairings (coaching adjustment + player quality in the acquisition), but they represent a massive change (10%+) over what’s currently occurring in non Quinn Hughes minutes.

 

[StreetHawk]

Totally agree. Even with Hronek back and a rental like Zadorov last season, the Canuck still couldn't get out of the second round.

I think it's 'plug and play' time for Wilander once his BU season is done. And I'd pair him with Elias Pettersson II, who'll have benefitted from a full season in the minors.

Will they struggle at times? Probably. But I swear if I have to watch another 20 games of Forbort, Juulsen, Desharnais and even Myers at times, I'm going to be tempted to gouge out my eyeballs.

They, like most teams will end up getting what they pay on D. If you are good or fortunate enough to sign a free agent who overperforms, that's going to last you 1 or 2 seasons before their short term deal is up. You aren't signing guys like that in free agency like Engvall for 7 years like Lou Lam did for $3 mill per.

At some point, the Canucks need to get an infusion of younger talent. If Hogs is moved, then there is going to be a big gap time wise between Hughes 2018 and the next Canucks draft pick, which maybe Lekky/D Petey in 2022 or Wallinder in 2023.

 

[vancityluongo]

Yeah. “I can’t believe this is such a big story getting so much talk and airplay”….say the guys who are talking about it and airing it non stop.

That PJ article is embarrassing, and I normally like the guy.

The real interesting tidbit in that piece IMO is the bit about the empty seats. All of this rift talk feels manufactured because general interest in the Canucks is lacking. And a lot of it probably is because times are tough, but sports are going through a bit of a reckoning I think (look at the NBA and the ratings plummet) with so many other forms of entertainment being available 24/7.

Capturing attention is hard, and the only way these guys can seem to do it is by creating a soap opera around a volatile team.

 

[Jerry the great]

Not sure I agree. For arguments sake let’s say the guy they acquire is able to saw off their minutes at a 45% expected goal rate, which is hardly a big ask (slightly below Ian Cole’s level last year).

I’m usually defensive of Tocchet, but let’s say he also pulls his head out of his ass and plays Brannstrom on the third pairing in soft minutes, and he’s able to put up 47-50% expected goal rate (reasonable given his early season performance imo).

At that point, the defense is passable given how stupidly dominant Hughes and Hronek have been when they played together. The issue right now is those other pairings are sub 40 because no one can pass the puck.

I don’t think the asks are that difficult on the other pairings (coaching adjustment + player quality in the acquisition), but they represent a massive change (10%+) over what’s currently occurring in non Quinn Hughes minutes.

are you looking at all sits, vs 5v5? because the only Canucks defender under 45 (5v5) is Soucy at 43.52