Grub's Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Chaotic Times

[JT Milker]

More rumours pls.

 

[MS]

Bolded isn't necessarily true. If one party involved feels the resolution is unfair that just might be because they're out of touch, not that it was unfair.

Again, it's the coach's job to find ways to connect with people when it comes to things like this.

And that was exactly what I initially said : even if it is fair, if it feels unfair you've hit the wrong notes.

The problem with Miller is that when he's bad, he's liability bad. He's teammates rolling their eyes on the bench bad. He's not someone you want around your prospects bad. When Pettersson is bad he's invisible but not a liability and the coach simply isn't going to bench someone who isn't making bad turnovers or line changes or playing well defensively.

I don't blame Miller if his main source of frustration is how shit Petey has been and feeling like perhaps there is a double standard of sorts, but blowing up behind the scenes and having games like he did vs the Kings is an inexcusable way to handle it.

Profoundly disagree here.

Bad Miller is a much, much better player than Bad Pettersson even if the occasional eye-test of an individual play is more infuriating with Miller.

Bad Miller is still a PPG 1C with occasional controller disconnects. Bad Pettersson goes 1-10-11 at ES in a half-season worth of games and tanks your PP.

 

[andora]

Miller is getting old so let's get rid of him. Proceeds to sign Brock Nelson. God this would be so Canucks.

Two BROCKS dont make a Faber

We should trade for Faber

 

[VanillaCoke]

Miller is getting old so let's get rid of him. Proceeds to sign Brock Nelson. God this would be so Canucks.

Except miller "getting old" isnt why he's on the block... like at all.

 

[Vector]

More rumours pls.

Working on it. Need my kids to go to sleep first.

 

[MS]

Why… the just denied miller was hurt, and I am pretty sure he is…

Also why are you clumping last year in with this year… you were wrong last year he was hurt. We know this. It is separate data from this year.

Both players have been bad this year, Miller has been worse, by far… he has also had games where he has been better. However the lows he hits just negate any highs we do get.

On top of this there are plenty of reports that it isn’t just Pettersson who is tired of him.

There is plenty of clear bias on this board, and I know people will think I am being biased for Petey as I have defended him, but the truth is the last 6 months, the majority of (not all) have been biased against Petey and pro miller.

If they were both receiving equal criticism it would probably be fine. They both would deserve it, but it just hasn’t. Even that way the last 6 months.

Miller has been better than Pettersson in probably 90% of the games since the start of February 2024. This shouldn't even really be debatable, and this is why Miller has a lot more rope from me.

And again, this notion that Bad Miller is worse than Bad Pettersson is actually nuts.

 

[valkynax]

Working on it. Need my kids to go to sleep first.

Will your kids eventually become the Chosen One?

 

[Bgav]

Gotta love when a trade is almost completed to literally no rumors or anything.

 

[MS]

The difference with Miller IMO is that he seems to be a bit of a control freak, especially when things are going badly. This leads to him trying to do too much on the ice, and making mistakes as a result. Calling audibles, yelling at teammates, tantrums on the bench, giving up on plays, taking extra long shifts at critical moments, etc. Granted he is one of the few players that actually can put the team on his back and carry them to a win, it does sometimes make sense to bench that type of player so they take a step back and realize what they can and can't control. The team playing well while Miller was on his leave was probably some good perspective for him.

I think there are times when Miller gets lost in what he can and can't control, and it causes him to lose focus, put his energy into the wrong things, and it makes life miserable for his teammates. At its worst it could interfere with Tocchet's coaching and messaging. That's when he gets benched--it isn't a punishment, it is coaching.

Petey's issues are entirely different, and I think you nailed it on the head with Petey internalizing it all and shutting down. For that, it makes sense to go back to fundamentals and play your way out of it without the pressure of putting up points, which is exactly what Petey has done this season, and exactly what Tocchet has alluded to as "the process with Petey" in the media. Benching him isn't really going to help him play his way out of it, and I think that's why we don't see it with other players.

I agree with all of this. I don't think it would have helped to have scratched or benched Pettersson last year or at the start of this year (although I would have removed him from PP1 at points as he was absolutely killing us there).

But when you set that precedent with a guy going through 50+ games of lousy, checked-out play ... you just can't turn around and bench the guy who carried the team on his back during that same stretch over something like what he was benched for. You've gotta find other ways to deal with it internally.

The only difference I really think there is, in the end, is age. I suspect if they were the same age and same performance as current, Pettersson would be gone. There may confounding factors with Miller, sure, but he is 31 years old and has a lot of sunk years on the contract.

My suspicion based on the reports that 'Pettersson met with the team and said he wanted to stay' and 'Miller was open to going to the Rangers' is that the team is done with both guys pretty equally and done with the situation and went to them both, and when one guy was more open to leaving that guy was the guy who will get moved.

More of the core group (Boeser, Myers, Garland) seems closer to Miller if anything and Hughes seems like he gets along with both.

I also wonder if some of this is an unexpected fallout from losing Zadorov as he and Miller were close and Zadorov was probably the next biggest alpha personality in the room whose presence might have helped the situation.

 

[xtr3m]

Might just be me but I’d rather the management and the coaching resolve the whatever internal issue there is instead of waiving the white flag and trading one of the involved players.

Instead of actually doing their job they created a huge media drama. Their strategy was to mostly try to resolve it through media interviews and PR releases. Has Tok actually talked to the guys about it?..

“We want the player group to resolve it between themselves.” JFC…

Quinn is too young to deal with this shit. Too young and too quiet.

 

[ahmon]

At this point you move JT, and if Petey's play doesn't improve after that then you move him too.

And Boeser should have been moved long long time ago

 

[GranvilleIsland]

Van and NYI failed to complete a trade on the draft floor than half a year plus later completed a trade for Horvat. Feels like this is dead for now, Unless they think Miller needs to be off the roster in which case the return will be shiet.

 

[Bgav]

At this point you move JT, and if Petey's play doesn't improve after that then you move him too.

And Boeser should have been moved long long time ago

This is my thinking as well.

 

[PavelBure10]

You just knew last year was too good to be true. This year has turned into a nightmare of a season.

At any moment I am fully prepared to hear Quinn Hughes demand for a trade.

Sheesh, can anything go right for Canuck fans.

 

[kanucks25]

Again, it's the coach's job to find ways to connect with people when it comes to things like this.

And that was exactly what I initially said : even if it is fair, if it feels unfair you've hit the wrong notes.

I guess we're just going to go in circles here but what if there is no solution that would have appeased Miller? If Tocchet feels like punishment is in order and Miller disagrees, it just is what it is. Tocchet can't just not punish him because Miller doesn't like it.

And again, Tocchet isn't going to bench Pettersson because he hasn't done anything worth benching. To me he can definitely try harder but his effort level has never been so low that it ever warranted a benching.

If we're working under the premise that Miller is pissed at Petey for his performance and the difference in how they are treated, the solution for him is not to be toxic, a distraction, or a liability. It's to go to the parties involved that can do something about it (management and coaches) in private like an adult and figure out a solution. And if he feels like the solution presented doesn't work for him, then ask out.

Profoundly disagree here.

Bad Miller is a much, much better player than Bad Pettersson even if the occasional eye-test of an individual play is more infuriating with Miller.

Bad Miller is still a PPG 1C with occasional controller disconnects. Bad Pettersson goes 1-10-11 at ES in a half-season worth of games and tanks your PP.

Yeah I don't think there's much of a difference when it comes to value. "Much, much better player" is a gross overstatement.

Bad Miller is a PPG player but also a sideshow.
Bad Pettersson is a 65 point player who is strong defensively.


FWIW I'm no Petey apologist, watching him since the time he fell off has made me sick probably as much as it makes Miller sick. But there is no excuse for Miller being a dickhead and torpedoing the team from a morale/locker-room stand-point if that's what's actually going on.

 

[orcatown]

Only way Pettersson is going to be successful if he is with someone who can create space. Just like Burrows helped created space for the Sedins, or like Bertuzzi did for Naslund.

Not saying that's a cure-all for Pettersson but believe it is the best way to get the best out of him.

Players like Boeser or Debrusk aren't going to do that. The only player that really can do it is Miller (although Garland can in a limited way).

In the end, that might be the best way to go. Play them together and you've got a chance for some offense. Maybe even let's them settle the silly dispute between them.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

We need one of these dinosaur GMs to come in hard after Miller.

 

[Vector]

We need one of these dinosaur GMs to come in hard after Miller.

Lou…

 

[MS]

I guess we're just going to go in circles here but what if there is no solution that would have appeased Miller? If Tocchet feels like punishment is in order and Miller disagrees, it just is what it is. Tocchet can't just not punish him because Miller doesn't like it.

And again, Tocchet isn't going to bench Pettersson because he hasn't done anything worth benching. To me he can definitely try harder but his effort level has never been so low that it ever warranted a benching.

If we're working under the premise that Miller is pissed at Petey for his performance and the difference in how they are treated, the solution for him is not to be toxic, a distraction, or a liability. It's to go to the parties involved that can do something about it (management and coaches) in private like an adult and figure out a solution. And if he feels like the solution presented doesn't work for him, then ask out.

Again, if Miller had, like, lost his shit at Petterson and started screaming at him on the bench or something ... I'd get it.

But what actually happened was pretty trivial. He pointed his stick and called Pettersson's name because he thought he should be rotating his coverage with that guy. Like, normal hockey stuff.

Yeah I don't think there's much of a difference when it comes to value. "Much, much better player" is a gross overstatement.

Bad Miller is a PPG player but also a sideshow.
Bad Pettersson is a 65 point player who is strong defensively.


FWIW I'm no Petey apologist, watching him since the time he fell off has made me sick probably as much as it makes Miller sick. But there is no excuse for Miller being a dickhead and torpedoing the team from a morale/locker-room stand-point if that's what's actually going on.

Bad Pettersson isn't a 65 point player. Bad Pettersson has had half-seasons at a 40-point pace/20 ES point pace where he was killing our PP.

 

[xtr3m]

You just knew last year was too good to be true. This year has turned into a nightmare of a season.

At any moment I am fully prepared to hear Quinn Hughes demand for a trade.

Sheesh, can anything go right for Canuck fans.

This feels like a repeat of Luongo vs Schneider. Some things will never change with this team.

PS. Nonzero chance of Petey saying “my contract sucks” in near future.

 

[ahmon]

Only way Pettersson is going to be successful if he is with someone who can create space. Just like Burrows helped created space for the Sedins, or like Bertuzzi did for Naslund.

Not saying that's a cure-all for Pettersson but believe it is the best way to get the best out of him.

Players like Boeser or Debrusk aren't going to do that. The only player that really can do it is Miller (although Garland can in a limited way).

In the end, that might be the best way to go. Play them together and you've got a chance for some offense. Maybe even let's them settle the silly dispute between them.

The thing about Pettersson, I never see Pettersson as your typical 1C who is great at dishing the puck, I always felt he plays the game more like a winger who happens to be really good defensively.

I feel Pettersson needs a playmaker to play along, and Debrusk/Boeser are complimentary scorers.

You can see that limitation clearly when you focus on Petey on the half boards, he really doesn't slow it down well. He passes well in motion but not in a static setting. The Sedins, Thornton, Backstroms feast in those static situation where they need to slow it down and thread a pass through seams.

The Sedins on the other hand were elite passers, they have their own give and go game that can create something out of nothing. Even if there's nothing they can dump the puck in the corner and cycle until they find an opening.

Why Burrows worked so well is Burrows has high IQ and knows when the back off and allow the Sedins to do their thing and find the open spots on the ice. The other part that Burrows was good was him defensively, he was one of the best defensive wingers in the game, and his defense helped the Sedins who lacked foot speed and minimized the time they spent in their zone.

 

[thecupismine]

I love how this thread always turns into Petey vs Miller with the exact same arguments being rehashed for the x100th time

 

[arttk]

Fixed

Get a badge every time he gets another player suspended

 

[supercanuck]

Only way Pettersson is going to be successful if he is with someone who can create space. Just like Burrows helped created space for the Sedins, or like Bertuzzi did for Naslund.

Not saying that's a cure-all for Pettersson but believe it is the best way to get the best out of him.

Players like Boeser or Debrusk aren't going to do that. The only player that really can do it is Miller (although Garland can in a limited way).

In the end, that might be the best way to go. Play them together and you've got a chance for some offense. Maybe even let's them settle the silly dispute between them.

I think Sherwood actually did help create some space for EP. His speed also helped. I'm surprised they haven't gone back to that.

 

[Wisp]

I don't think "JT Miller is self destructing because he's jealous of how his team mates get coached" is the defense of JT you think it is lol. The response to this hypothetical behavior is 'grow up, be a pro.'