Value of: Griffin Reinhart

[Rebuilt]

nice bash thread

What else is new?

 

[belair]

TIL Puljujarvi = Frederic = Filip Helt since they all have accomplished the same amount in the NHL

Seriously though, do you not understand the concept of a player being better than another?

Are they four years removed from their draft years?

Do they play the same position?

Are they in any way similar players? No?

I completely understand the concept but you still haven't proven to me that either one of them is better. In fact, I'm not convinced you'd even heard of either one of them before I mentioned them.

Three left-handed, defensive-oriented defensemen drafted in the first round of the 2012 NHL Entry draft. None of them are full-time NHLers.

 

[smackdaddy]

Is this the new oilers/chia bash thread to go to when you've been ousted in the other 2?

 

[LordNeverLose]

Are they four years removed from their draft years?

Do they play the same position?

Are they in any way similar players? No?

I completely understand the concept but you still haven't proven to me that either one of them is better. In fact, I'm not convinced you'd even heard of either one of them before I mentioned them.

Three left-handed, defensive-oriented defensemen drafted in the first round of the 2012 NHL Entry draft. None of them are full-time NHLers.

They are better because they are better at hockey. I know this because I have watched them play hockey. The fact that this is difficult for you to comprehend makes me wonder if you have watched them play hockey. Also, I expect Skjei and Koekkoek will both be full-time NHLers this season (Skjei might not), whereas I'm not sure Reinhart ever will be.

And lol at saying I've never heard of them. You didn't exactly pick obscure guys. I'm 99% sure I've posted about both of them before. EDIT: yup

In response to someone saying Garth must be a terrible GM for picking Bailey over Karlsson (full post contained about ten examples, Koekkoek is singled out for this thread):

TBL took Slater Koekkoek 10th, 1 spot over Filip Forsberg

In a thread about ranking the futures of Metro teams:

8. Rangers - Team has some decent young players like McDonagh, Stepan, Kreider, Hayes, and Miller; cap situation is absolutely brutal and lots of NMCs; prospect cupboard is absolutely bare aside from Buchnevich and Skjei

 

[belair]

They are better because they are better at hockey. I know this because I have watched them play hockey. The fact that this is difficult for you to comprehend makes me wonder if you have watched them play hockey. Also, I expect Skjei and Koekkoek will both be full-time NHLers this season (Skjei might not), whereas I'm not sure Reinhart ever will be.

I asked you (or anyone else) what they're worth in comparison and why. I'm still waiting. You're saying they're better at hockey and I'll retort with 'I'm not so sure about that. Let's wait and see this year.' Same nondescript answer.

All three of these guys have had a hiccup at the NHL level and neither has taken a spot and run with it. And my argument is neither has done anything to separate themselves from Reinhart.

If Reinhart is worth a 4th, why aren't those two?

Reinhart has excellent awareness in his own zone and good positioning. His lateral movement and puck-handling are things that need to be refined, but aren't impossible to improve. I've seen a lot of this player and that's my opinion of him.

I haven't seen or read enough about the other two to see where this great divide is between these two emerging top end prospects and this giant draft bust.

 

[LordNeverLose]

I asked you (or anyone else) what they're worth in comparison and why. I'm still waiting. You're saying they're better at hockey and I'll retort with 'I'm not so sure about that. Let's wait and see this year.' Same nondescript answer.

All three of these guys have had a hiccup at the NHL level and neither has taken a spot and run with it. And my argument is neither has done anything to separate themselves from Reinhart.

If Reinhart is worth a 4th, why aren't those two?

Reinhart has excellent awareness in his own zone and good positioning. His lateral movement and puck-handling are things that need to be refined, but aren't impossible to improve. I've seen a lot of this player and that's my opinion of him.

I haven't seen or read enough about the other two to see where this great divide is between these two emerging top end prospects and this giant draft bust.

IMO Koekkoek and Skjei are probably both worth about a late 1st rounder. Reinhart is worth a 3rd/4th.

Reinhart is worth less, as I have said many times, since he is significantly worse at hockey and very unlikely to become a better NHL player than the other two. You can retort with "I'm not so sure about that. Let's wait and see this year" all you want, but you are in the overwhelming minority if you think they are similar levels of prospects. This is like comparing Puljujarvi and Otto Koivula. You can say Puljujarvi is a better hockey player, but I could respond "Let's wait and see."

Reinhart is a terrible skater who doesn't make up for it with physical play, and his positioning has seemed to only get worse from when he was drafted, as has his offensive game.

 

[belair]

IMO Koekkoek and Skjei are probably both worth about a late 1st rounder. Reinhart is worth a 3rd/4th.

Reinhart is worth less, as I have said many times, since he is significantly worse at hockey and very unlikely to become a better NHL player than the other two. You can retort with "I'm not so sure about that. Let's wait and see this year" all you want, but you are in the overwhelming minority if you think they are similar levels of prospects. This is like comparing Puljujarvi and Otto Koivula. You can say Puljujarvi is a better hockey player, but I could respond "Let's wait and see."

Reinhart is a terrible skater who doesn't make up for it with physical play, and his positioning has seemed to only get worse from when he was drafted, as has his offensive game.

You're the only one spouting out here. There's no overwhelming majority. And there's absolutely no substance to your claims here. It's "They're good. He's not. Take my word for it." Nice opinion.

Reinhart's skating has been overstated, his positioning in the defensive zone has been fine this preseason and his offense has been on par, if not better than both of them at the pro level even though that isn't a strength in his game.

Also 62 hits in 29 games last season in the NHL would suggest that he's improving that facet of his game.

It's OK though. I've gotten the concept of your argument: Koekkoek good. Reinhart bad.

 

[HoseEmDown]

I asked you (or anyone else) what they're worth in comparison and why. I'm still waiting. You're saying they're better at hockey and I'll retort with 'I'm not so sure about that. Let's wait and see this year.' Same nondescript answer.

All three of these guys have had a hiccup at the NHL level and neither has taken a spot and run with it. And my argument is neither has done anything to separate themselves from Reinhart.

If Reinhart is worth a 4th, why aren't those two?

Reinhart has excellent awareness in his own zone and good positioning. His lateral movement and puck-handling are things that need to be refined, but aren't impossible to improve. I've seen a lot of this player and that's my opinion of him.

I haven't seen or read enough about the other two to see where this great divide is between these two emerging top end prospects and this giant draft bust.

Tampa will most likely protect Koekkoek in the expansion draft next year and have no plans of trading him so not sure how to judge his value. Since they plan on protecting him most likely over Garrison who went for a 2nd recently and Coburn a 1st, 3rd and Gudas I would think Koekkoek’s worth is better than those pieces.

What hiccup has Koekkoek had at the NHL level? He's was an injury callup both times he came up so wasn't brought up to win a spot just get some game time. He did show enough to earn 10 playoff games with more minutes each game especially in the ECF. So he has shown he can play well in the biggest stages.

 

[belair]

Tampa will most likely protect Koekkoek in the expansion draft next year and have no plans of trading him so not sure how to judge his value. Since they plan on protecting him most likely over Garrison who went for a 2nd recently and Coburn a 1st, 3rd and Gudas I would think Koekkoek’s worth is better than those pieces.

What hiccup has Koekkoek had at the NHL level? He's was an injury callup both times he came up so wasn't brought up to win a spot just get some game time. He did show enough to earn 10 playoff games with more minutes each game especially in the ECF. So he has shown he can play well in the biggest stages.

Hiccup was probably the wrong word. Short stint. Small sample.

And this is exactly my argument. Tampa values Koekkoek highly despite showing little more than Reinhart has. This isn't even a swipe at either of them. Both are legitimate prospects. I'm pointing out it's absolutely ridiculous the divide between these players simply due to a high profile trade and the lofty expectations of a fan-base in a large hockey market.

 

[rt]

4th rounder.

 

[Smartguy]

Is this the new oilers/chia bash thread to go to when you've been ousted in the other 2?

Not overly surprising, until the oilers turn into a respected team, most fans will choose to say everything they contain is garbage, not that it isn't deserved, there going to set a record for missed playoffs, but till then everything they have is worthless according to the board. Find it odd when leafs fans jump in on it though..

 

[TampaJay]

Hiccup was probably the wrong word. Short stint. Small sample.

And this is exactly my argument. Tampa values Koekkoek highly despite showing little more than Reinhart has. This isn't even a swipe at either of them. Both are legitimate prospects. I'm pointing out it's absolutely ridiculous the divide between these players simply due to a high profile trade and the lofty expectations of a fan-base in a large hockey market.

I agree with you that Dmen take longer to develop. I remember when people were saying the Hedman was bad pick during his development because there were some struggles. The fact that Koekkoek didn’t make the lineup until last spring is no slight on him. Yzerman never rushes prospects, he overcooks them. Hence, Tampa fans are more patient. SY even put Kucherov in the AHL until it became glaringly obvious that he didn’t belong there. Now as I say that, Brayden Point is in the lineup, but I think that is only because Kucherov is missing.

 

[brettzz]

frankie corrado straight up

 

[zar]

It was 2 bad moves for the team.
They drafted the winger (Yak) when they should have drafted the D (Murray) and traded for the D when they should have drafted the C (Barzal).

Just my opinion. Not the fans fault just questionable management choices.

Agreed... but "Butterfly Effect" with Murray... do we get McDavid? The Reinhart trade was bad and is looking worse as time goes on.

Murray took a long development path to get where he is now.

There's no way that Oiler regime would have been as patient. They would have thrown him to the lions like they did with Yakupov and the other top picks.

I hope the Oilers learned their lesson and send Puljujarvi to the AHL for at least 3-4 months.

Reinhart is still young, D take long to develop and he still is salvageable, but he's got to work, and they Oilers can't gift him anything. The trade and the old boys club inside information that led to it hurts, but let's see if the player can turn the corner, the player and the poor managing are separate.

They have been patient with Nurse (the only defenceman they have drafted in the top 10 of any draft), so you can't really say that with certainty.

4th rounder.

An early 4th though.

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

I wouldn't want him on the Kings if he was given away for free

 

[Hunter368]

Looking like a bust for a high draft pick.

 

[Stuzchuk]

Chad Costello + Conditional 4th/5th

 

[leaflover]

Griffin wouldn't be worth trading for the Oilers. Throw him in the AHL and leave him there for as long as it takes to develop into an NHL quality d-man or until they can comfortably write him off. There's probably still a 50/50 chance he makes it.

 

[The Wizz]

As a Sabres fan, after seeing what our staff did with Samson between year 1 and year 2, I'd be interested to see if they could do something with Griffin.

Problem being, I'd be willing to give a 4th, and EDM won't do that, so it's really a dead issue.

 

[pspot]

Cam barker

 

[Viqsi]

I love all of these Islander and even a Columbus and Senator poster coming in here all cocky and bashing (not discussing) draft picks. Talk about hypocritical.

I thought something was off about this, so I checked. The only Jackets fan who posted in this thread before you made this comment was me, and I was responding to someone making a poor reference to the Yakupov trade. And nobody even mentioned Murray - or any other CBJ picks - until well after this comment of yours.

There certainly are a lot of circumstances in which Oil fans get a lot more grief than is deserved by anyone, but it doesn't help if you start fabricating instances.

 

[zar]

I thought something was off about this, so I checked. The only Jackets fan who posted in this thread before you made this comment was me, and I was responding to someone making a poor reference to the Yakupov trade. And nobody even mentioned Murray - or any other CBJ picks - until well after this comment of yours.

There certainly are a lot of circumstances in which Oil fans get a lot more grief than is deserved by anyone, but it doesn't help if you start fabricating instances.

I apologize... I took your comment the wrong way. I see you were correcting the other poster not being a smart ass. I was being defensive because of most of the other comments in this thread. My bad.

 

[Devils Dominion]

Bust that Edm should have never gone near.

 

[LordNeverLose]

I apologize... I took your comment the wrong way. I see you were correcting the other poster not being a smart ass. I was being defensive because of most of the other comments in this thread. My bad.

Except that the Viqsi post that could possibly be interpretted that way came after your post about Isles, Sens, and Jackets fans bashing draft picks, and regardless that doesn't address the non-existent posts by Isles or Sens fans.

 

[LetsGoIslanders]

A sixth round conditional pick?

The Oilers put him on waivers and no one claimed him.

The Islanders legitimately drafted an ISS top 5 pick, and he didn't develop. He had trouble with foot speed and pivots, and never worked to correct it. He's a lazy guy. Tavares was criticized for his lack of foot speed in his draft year, and he corrected it year after year by working with Dawn Braid. Reinhart doesn't care.