Greatest 'Foreign' player ever who graced the NHL?

[authentic]

Probably Jagr. Absolute peak Forsberg is probably the best, but career wise (due to injuries) nowhere close to guys like Jagr and Lidström.

Absolute peak Ovechkin is right there though as well if not the best, and then if we’re including goalies obviously Hasek. Overall though it’s Jagr for career but then again Ovechkin will retire with the record for goals and could’ve had 1000 without the lockouts, there’s a good argument it’s Ovechkin for best and greatest at this point.

 

[Zerotonine]

Jagr
Ovechkin
Lindstrom
Kurri
Teemu.......

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Ovechkin AINEC
BTW Ovechkin has the same number of top PPGs as Jagr (and 8 vs 1 top GPG)

trends.google.com since 2004
Red is Ovechkin, blue is Jagr. The rest left behind by a mile.

View attachment 928810

Possibly the most irrelevant chart/graph in the history of HFboards, and that's saying a lot.

 

[Toby91ca]

Jaromir Jagr. It's crazy he put up 1,921 points and he could have gone well past 2,000pts if he didn't leave for the KHL for 3 seasons. If you figure he would put up at least 70pts in each of those 3 seasons he left the KHL for, likely more if he was on better teams, probably finish around 2,150-2,250pts or so.

After Jagr, it'd be hard not to say Ovechkin.

Maybe, but I just don’t remember him having the same thought of greatness as Ovechkin throughout his career. When you look at the numbers he put up and awards, it does make sense though.

I can’t get on board with your 2,150-2,250 or more prediction had he stayed in the NHL though. 1) he may not have been able to hold up had he stuck around in NHL vs playing in Europe and 2) he scored 71pts the year before he left and 54pts the year he came back…those predictions would require him to have been scoring 76-110pts each of those years. So, the low end guess I think would have fairly unlikely and the high end basically impossible

 

[Crosby2010]

Has to be Jagr or Ovechkin. I guess Ovechkin based on recency bias. Jagr was colourful as well. The mullet, the personality, the salute he did after a goal, the raw skill and stickhandling. And its funny how he always looked hunched over as if that would be a disadvantage and it never was. It was just his style of skating.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Maybe, but I just don’t remember him having the same thought of greatness as Ovechkin throughout his career. When you look at the numbers he put up and awards, it does make sense though.

I can’t get on board with your 2,150-2,250 or more prediction had he stayed in the NHL though. 1) he may not have been able to hold up had he stuck around in NHL vs playing in Europe and 2) he scored 71pts the year before he left and 54pts the year he came back…those predictions would require him to have been scoring 76-110pts each of those years. So, the low end guess I think would have fairly unlikely and the high end basically impossible

What? The era Jagr was in for the first half of his career still had Mario and Wayne to name a few.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

The argument is there. I don't think other than Gretzky and Lemieux that you can find a longer stretch where a player dominated like Hasek did from 93 to 2001. That is 8 years with 6 Vezinas and 2 Harts. Even if you look at 96 where Jim Carey won the Vezinas with a .906 % , Hasek once again lead the league with a .920%. In that same time span other than his two Hart trophies, he was the runner up 1 time and a finalist twice for the MVP - including the one season which was his statistical greatest where he finishes with a .937%, .12 points higher than the next closest goalie.

To pile on although this might not be in consideration for this discussion, but finally in the first NHL attended Olympics Hasek backstops Czech to a gold medal.

So I have convinced myself that no other player other than Gretzky and Lemieux were as dominant in their prime than Hasek was.

There's Lidstrom who from 2001-2011 won 7 Norris Trophies and a Conn Smythe.

 

[Reindl87]

I feel like the term "greatest" contains more than just stats and accomplishments.
That`s why I have to give it to Lidstrom over Jagr. I just can`t ignore what happened when he left Pittbsurgh and Washington.
Furthermore, while Jagr won two Cups, he won them very young as the teams third-5th option. Not as one of the "main guys".

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I feel like the term "greatest" contains more than just stats and accomplishments.
That`s why I have to give it to Lidstrom over Jagr. I just can`t ignore what happened when he left Pittbsurgh and Washington.
Furthermore, while Jagr won two Cups, he won them very young as the teams third-5th option. Not as one of the "main guys".

In that case the lack of rest for my boy Geno, 3x Stanley Cup Champion is just par for the course around these parts. Lol

 

[Zine]

It’s difficult to compare goalies to position players, but the answer is Hasek. He’s a lunatic, but the best goalie in history.

 

[Reindl87]

In that case the lack of rest for my boy Geno, 3x Stanley Cup Champion is just par for the course around these parts. Lol

Of course, Malkin has a case, too. However, in general he is usely listed a notch below the Jagr/Lidstrom tier.

 

[mr figgles]

Jagr
Hasek
Lidstrom
Ovechkin

Had Jagr not gone back to Europe for those years, he’d be well over 2000 career points and comfortably the second leading scorer with no real danger of being passed anytime in the near future.

 

[Ben Grimm]

Lidström won the Norris age 41, Ovechkin his final award so far at 34.

Agreed. I realize he's a W but Ws need to pass also. OV has less APG than Morgan Rielly and is barely in the top 200 all-time.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Jagr and Hasek, followed by Lidstrom and Ovechkin

 

[Toby91ca]

Agreed. I realize he's a W but Ws need to pass also. OV has less APG than Morgan Rielly and is barely in the top 200 all-time.

I don't think I'd knock him for that. He's a sniper, that's his game....similar to Brett Hull....no one expected them to be set up men. While he's around 200th all-time in assists per game, he's 8th in goals per game.....which combined with the fact that he's also one of the best in terms of longevity, it puts him on the cusp of becoming #1 in terms of all-time goals. Because of that longevity, while he's not a set up guy, low on assist per game basis, he's still 59th all-time in assists.....so not a bragging point, but certainly not a knock.

 

[BlueSeal]

'Greatest foreign player who ever graced the NHL'?

Easy answer: Hasek. Name me another player who carried an entire team single-handedly to Olympic Gold. Six Vezinas. And that's tip of the iceberg.

Done here.

 

[Team_Spirit]

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

Jagr

 

[GreatSaveEssensa]

Shame Hasek couldn't have come over earlier.. same with some of those Russians.

Hasek came over at a young age and played for Chicago. His career had nothing to do with bot being able to get to North America.

 

[ITM]

'Greatest foreign player who ever graced the NHL'?

Easy answer: Hasek. Name me another player who carried an entire team single-handedly to Olympic Gold. Six Vezinas. And that's tip of the iceberg.

Done here.

Was coming to say something similar.

I believe Hasek is tied with Dryden for all-time best save percentage. Almost 400 wins but in under 800 games. HIs six Vezinas are two more than Brodeur and three more than Roy, who he beat in a head-to-head in the Olympics as you mentioned.

Ovechkin's feat, like Jagr's and Lidstrom's, is amazing. We can look at volume in one category or another. Argue for number of Cups. But as a body of work in which peak performance is measured, I think Hasek is as good a name as any maybe in part because he has no comparison at position (i.e. foreign born) but in his comparisons he's better in a couple of metrics than his native-born competitors.

And certainly no one ever argues Hasek was the beneficiary or product of a system or the club he played for. It's usually the contrary. Hasek was the system for all intents and purposes.

Shifting for a moment: Haven't gone through the thread, but has anyone mentioned Pavel Datsyuk?

His peak years were for me, what ideal hockey looks like. For about six years, I think the best hockey player in the world was Pavel Datsyuk; Byngs and Selkes while being top 10, top 15 in scoring and an eye test that was unmatched.

Good topic!

 

[tarheelhockey]

Hasek came over at a young age and played for Chicago. His career had nothing to do with bot being able to get to North America.

26 isn’t a young age in this context. Hasek was older than average for an NHL goalie when he played his first game.

You’re right that he could have come over sooner if he’d chosen to do so, but the point is that he was locked into his career in Czechoslovakia rather than playing against the best in the world. If he were drafted today instead of in 1983, there’s no way it takes eight years just to get him in uniform.

 

[vippe]

Peak peak - I think Haseks 97-98 seasons are better than anyother player outside of the top 4 players of all time. I've never seen a more dominant player at his position than Hasek were those years. And that he had a span of 6 Vezinas in 8 years is crazy to think. He's my #2.

I respect the heck out of Jagr but I probably have him at #4 just behind Lidström.

It's very hard for me to not put Ovechkin at 1 - He's going to be the greatest goalscorer of all time, maybe this season, guaranteed next season - he has a better trophy case than anyone not named Lidström among those 4 players but the absolute insanity that is scoring 900 goals is hard to top for me.

In the end, that's helluva top 4 and I respect every pick as the #1, there's no wrong answer in my book.

 

[ITM]

Hasek came over at a young age and played for Chicago. His career had nothing to do with bot being able to get to North America.

Objectively, sure, but in terms of starting his NHL career for purposes of comparing the greats, he was 26 when he came over. Martin Brodeur was 20/21 when his career began, and so was Roy.

 

[JackSlater]

I'd say

Hasek
Jagr
Ovechkin

You can make a case for any of the three though.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

There's Lidstrom who from 2001-2011 won 7 Norris Trophies and a Conn Smythe.

There's also the argument that the competition for the Norris between 2001 and 2001 was weak. Bourque, Chelios and MacInnis all got old. Pronger got hurt. Who else was there competing for the Norris those years? Neidermeyer? Blake? Phaneuf?