Great Jets article by The Athletic that was picked up by the NY Times

[Wedgeden]

Really good article about Scott Arniel and his dedication to analytics for the upcoming season
Also explains why The Jets couldn't handle Colorado in the playoffs and how The Avs were able to defeat the Jets' defense.

It's a NY Times article so you may or may not get the paywall pop up. I got it the first time but the second time, I was able to read the whole article.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5863928/2024/10/24/scott-arniel-winnipeg-jets/

Click to read more...

 

[enuffidiotsalready]

Murat is still the best writer on the Jets beat

 

[AtomicJets]

Murat is still the best writer on the Jets beat

Are there any competitors? Billeck and Wiebe articles may as well be written by AI.

 

[KingBogo]

Sure makes it clear, that NHL teams go far beyond looking up publicly available analytics like CF% and xGF% when using their in house analytics to inform game play and strategies.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Really good article about Scott Arniel and his dedication to analytics for the upcoming season
Also explains why The Jets couldn't handle Colorado in the playoffs and how The Avs were able to defeat the Jets' defense.

It's a NY Times article so you may or may not get the paywall pop up. I got it the first time but the second time, I was able to read the whole article.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5863928/2024/10/24/scott-arniel-winnipeg-jets/

Great article by Murat.

I also got through the paywall on the 2nd attempt.

I don't want to quote too much but there were a couple of parts I found particularly interesting.

Colorado believed it could beat Winnipeg by taking advantage of a defence corps short on footspeed and light on net-front presence. The Avalanche moved away from being a rush-first team to one that dumped pucks more often than they had all season. Eventually, when their dump-ins backed Winnipeg’s defence off the blue line, Colorado dominated possession through the middle of the ice with speed, cutbacks and second-wave offence that got pucks into heavy traffic in front of the net.

Colorado surprised the Jets with its dump-and-chase mentality. Instead of being able to play aggressive gaps, Winnipeg’s defenders were made to turn and skate after pucks under heavy pressure. Not only did this serve to create a ton of offence for Colorado, it stifled the Jets’ best five-on-five scorers.

Supports the criticism of Bones that he failed to adjust to what Avs were doing.
Correctly identified a strategy to take advantage of the weaknesses of the league's best defense. More accurately, the league's most effective defense.

So what happens if the Jets run into another “beehive” of a team that wants to play a heavy, physical, dump-and-chase game? Winnipeg’s team defence is well-structured — again — six games into the season but its defencemen haven’t gotten any bigger or more mobile since last season’s playoff disappointment.

If Fleury plays 3LD they are more mobile than if Stanley is playing. Size is still not bad. Not sure but I think it would have mostly been Dillon and Stanley they were taking advantage of. Both big but both lacking mobility.

 

[ps241]

Sure makes it clear, that NHL teams go far beyond looking up publicly available analytics like CF% and xGF% when using their in house analytics to inform game play and strategies.

I know there is a raging debate about the value of analytics as a tool for fans.

This article does an excellent job of discussing how teams use it combined with video footage as another tool in their arsenal. It’s also cool to read about how the assistant coaches and Scott all bring their varied experiences from other orgs together to build a plan.

Growth and evolving to try to improve is a constant in any competitive environment both personally and as a group.

 

[John Agar]

Are there any competitors? Billeck and Wiebe articles may as well be written by AI.

It's called Asshole Intelligence....

 

[ps241]

Great article by Murat.

I also got through the paywall on the 2nd attempt.

I don't want to quote too much but there were a couple of parts I found particularly interesting.


Supports the criticism of Bones that he failed to adjust to what Avs were doing.
Correctly identified a strategy to take advantage of the weaknesses of the league's best defense. More accurately, the league's most effective defense.


If Fleury plays 3LD they are more mobile than if Stanley is playing. Size is still not bad. Not sure but I think it would have mostly been Dillon and Stanley they were taking advantage of. Both big but both lacking mobility.

It was a good read. The article brought allot of value to me as a fan. Also a bit of therapy for my PTSD brought on by our annual playoff collapse.

 

[Jack7222]

Interesting that there has been debate around here whether our playoff D got beat because they were too small with not enough net front presence, or because they weren't mobile enough and had trouble getting to pucks first and breaking out cleanly. The article identifies both.

 

[STZD]

FYI, the NYTs bought the Athletic. All of their articles are NYTs articles.

 

[LowLefty]

If Fleury plays 3LD they are more mobile than if Stanley is playing. Size is still not bad. Not sure but I think it would have mostly been Dillon and Stanley they were taking advantage of. Both big but both lacking mobility.

I'd think he is referring to the Jets D in general - which is why he referred to the group rather than Stan / Dillon.
And it's not just footspeed that he is referring to - it's the battle they struggled with due to size.
Losing battles on the walls and failing to manage net front / middle ice.
Over all, the Jets blueline is smaller and less physical - and is why they want Stan in (and not out).
Fleury is not physical at all for his size - similar to Samberg. And although Stan is not as physical as some would like him to be, he is still more physical that both these guys.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'd think he is referring to the Jets D in general - which is why he referred to the group rather than Stan / Dillon.
And it's not just footspeed that he is referring to - it's the battle they struggled with due to size.
Losing battles on the walls and failing to manage net front / middle ice.
Over all, the Jets blueline is smaller and less physical - and is why they want Stan in (and not out).
Fleury is not physical at all for his size - similar to Samberg. And although Stan is not as physical as some would like him to be, he is still more physical that both these guys.

The trend for a few years now has been towards more smaller, more mobile, more offensive Dmen. Is the Jets D corps small by current standards?

 

[scelaton]

I know there is a raging debate about the value of analytics as a tool for fans.

This article does an excellent job of discussing how teams use it combined with video footage as another tool in their arsenal. It’s also cool to read about how the assistant coaches and Scott all bring their varied experiences from other orgs together to build a plan.

Growth and evolving to try to improve is a constant in any competitive environment both personally and as a group.

Agree, and this quote from the article summarizes it simply: "Arniel’s mission is to combine analytics, video and communication". It's not one thing vs another, it's using all of it and not being afraid of learning from or delegating to others with greater expertise.

Whether you're in the private sector, in health care or government, becoming a "learning xxx system", using all available tools, is the way to get better. The article makes it clear that Arniel, unlike his predecessors, really embraces this.

As an aside--I really don't think the key question is whether the Jets have proprietary information that we as fans don't have. This isn't rocket science and the internet has opened up huge amounts of information to millions of people. This is information democracy in action and allows the best analysts/mathematical journalists among us to amass large followings, be open to constructive criticism (along with,sadly, an equal amount of vitriol) and thus continue to learn.

 

[LowLefty]

The trend for a few years now has been towards more smaller, more mobile, more offensive Dmen. Is the Jets D corps small by current standards?

I like mobile defensive too - big or small - but they need to look after things in their own end as well.
So it's not just small / mobile - you need to be able to handle the physical aspect as well - and finding guys that can do both (JoMo) is not easy.
I shouldn't have pointed at size - it's more about strength, physical, grit, edge - and mobility.
And again, getting all those things in a single player is not always possible so you balance the blueline with guys that can combine to do those things.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I like mobile defensive too - big or small - but they need to look after things in their own end as well.
So it's not just small / mobile - you need to be able to handle the physical aspect as well - and finding guys that can do both (JoMo) is not easy.
I shouldn't have pointed at size - it's more about strength, physical, grit, edge - and mobility.
And again, getting all those things in a single player is not always possible so you balance the blueline with guys that can combine to do those things.

I agree - but the current trend seems to have been toward smaller, less physical Dmen. A lot of the top rated ones are not all that good in their own ends. Not terrible, but not great either. The Norris these days seems to have become basically a prize for the top scoring Dman.

If I could have my way, Larry Robinson would be the template I would use for Dmen. But that is obviously a pipe dream. One like him would be fantastic. Never mind 6.

 

[voyageur]

Agree, and this quote from the article summarizes it simply: "Arniel’s mission is to combine analytics, video and communication". It's not one thing vs another, it's using all of it and not being afraid of learning from or delegating to others with greater expertise.

Whether you're in the private sector, in health care or government, becoming a "learning xxx system", using all available tools, is the way to get better. The article makes it clear that Arniel, unlike his predecessors, really embraces this.

As an aside--I really don't think the key question is whether the Jets have proprietary information that we as fans don't have. This isn't rocket science and the internet has opened up huge amounts of information to millions of people. This is information democracy in action and allows the best analysts/mathematical journalists among us to amass large followings, be open to constructive criticism (along with,sadly, an equal amount of vitriol) and thus continue to learn.

I remember in preseason Arniel spoke about how he would have to watch video to assess the players he deemed on the bubble of making the roster. That struck me as seeing beyond what the stats tell you. Coaches in particular have to break down plays, with the systems they implement.

Analytics are useful, but there is far more than Corsi and xG that factor into a coach's process, which some fans really drove home here for years attacking players, like Pionk, or Lowry, or whoever. I think you would want some proprietary right over the information you are provided, when it pertains to passing the puck, break outs. One on one battles or 50/50 pucks has to be a stat too that a coach would be interested in.

 

[WolfHouse]

I remember in preseason Arniel spoke about how he would have to watch video to assess the players he deemed on the bubble of making the roster. That struck me as seeing beyond what the stats tell you. Coaches in particular have to break down plays, with the systems they implement.

Analytics are useful, but there is far more than Corsi and xG that factor into a coach's process, which some fans really drove home here for years attacking players, like Pionk, or Lowry, or whoever. I think you would want some proprietary right over the information you are provided, when it pertains to passing the puck, break outs. One on one battles or 50/50 pucks has to be a stat too that a coach would be interested in.

Suddenly pionk is absolved after 7 games haha

Sure makes it clear, that NHL teams go far beyond looking up publicly available analytics like CF% and xGF% when using their in house analytics to inform game play and strategies.

Does it? The issues thar the avs exploited were all pretty clearly discussed here thru the season...

 

[voyageur]

Suddenly pionk is absolved after 7 games haha


Does it? The issues thar the avs exploited were all pretty clearly discussed here thru the season...

I don't think fans were that unhappy with the way the Jets finished the season. Made the Avs look like school boys. What's funny is that I think the trades made would have benefitted the team more if they had drawn Dallas in the 1st round, which was a very realistic possibility at the trade deadline.

If I come to know an absolute truth on HF, it's that some fans have an axe to grind, regardless of the outcome a player produces.

 

[WolfHouse]

I don't think fans were that unhappy with the way the Jets finished the season. Made the Avs look like school boys. What's funny is that I think the trades made would have benefitted the team more if they had drawn Dallas in the 1st round, which was a very realistic possibility at the trade deadline.

If I come to know an absolute truth on HF, it's that some fans have an axe to grind, regardless of the outcome a player produces.

Like other fans blindly supporting a player they like and decrying advanced stats if they say different?

 

[voyageur]

Like other fans blindly supporting a player they like and decrying advanced stats if they say different?

It's picking and choosing the stats you argue with. Were Dillon and Pionk a positive GF/GA last year in spite of the xG? Was Samberg and Pionk good last year in advanced statistics? It's not blind. I have been pretty consistent on what I see as Pionk's strengths: puck movement, supporting the rush, offensive zone movement, board work. Defensively I have never said he is outstanding, but I've never gone as far as saying a player isn't NHL calibre, with advanced statistics. Anyways it's not worth the argument. Pionk has been good this season. He's probably adapted to Chynoweth's coaching, and the coaching change, as well as any defenseman. But to your credit, you've been behind Colin Miller the whole way, and he looks like he is fitting in too this year.