Management GM Pierre Dorion/Front Office Thread - Part VIII

[Tuna99]

What exactly do you think this proves?

First you were complaining at the timing of the signing, now you pivot to price point.

If we're just going to get a time machine to change the date he signed, along with the price, why don't we change the player too?

Dorion should have signed mcdavid on July 12th for 5 million a year. Idiot.

The point you are arguing against me on is Dorion stated his goal for 2021 season was to get off to a good start which they didn’t. Brady Tkachuk was not signed and of course was a distraction not to mention not having in the lineup when your stated goal is to get off to a good start and you don’t have your best player and Captain. I said it was stupid to delay this signing because Dorion accomplished nothing by delaying the signing and you said he did accomplish something, I asked you what he accomplished and you start talking about time machine and alternate universes.

The question is what did Dorion accomplish by delaying signing Tkachuk, he didn’t save money or get max term and his team was imploding to start the season. So what was the master strategy and what is good about him “sticking to his guns?”

My point is Dorion is an idiot, prove me wrong on this

 

[GCK]

Sticking to what guns? Did he get Tkachuk for cheaper because it doesn’t look that way. He just has a portion of the fan base thinking he’s tough and strong when in fact he’s just stupid.

What did he accomplish by delaying the signing?

He got term.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Brady signed at $8.3 and earlier in the summer Scechikov who has better stats and is a higher pick signed for $7.75, which we all thought Brady would get. So what was accomplished by delaying the signing, he certainly didn’t save any money and Carolina got Svechnikov for an extra year

Svech is not a leader… Chucky is.

Brady and family wanted promises on the future of the team spending… <— rumoured.

Negotiations took longer. But it got done.

 

[UglyPuckling]

The man really is an idiot. Why publicly disclose in your year-end press conference that Chabot and Tkachuk said what they said? Just keep it to yourself, man. There is no benefit to the market and the league knowing that Chabot and Tkachuk feel that way. It's mind boggling that this man has been employed in a public-facing role for this long.

Agreed. Now every GM knows Pierre has some pressure to make a deal.

When negotiating a deal, there is always one card you want to hold on to and that is that you are prepared to walk away if you aren't getting the deal you are looking for.

The sharks are circling Pierre's boat now.

 

[UglyPuckling]

I’m done arguing ridiculous points with people hell bent on that isht.

Actions speak louder than words?

 

[Burrowsaurus]

New bodies in management or coaching will not change the way things have turned in here. Nobody can survive this level of twisted scrutiny.

Winning fixes everything

 

[Sweatred]

Brady signed at $8.3 and earlier in the summer Scechikov who has better stats and is a higher pick signed for $7.75, which we all thought Brady would get. So what was accomplished by delaying the signing, he certainly didn’t save any money and Carolina got Svechnikov for an extra year

What does $8.3 become when you convert it to CDN TIRE Money (that’s reduce for ON taxes etc).

 

[Tuna99]

Svech is not a leader… Chucky is.

Brady and family wanted promises on the future of the team spending… <— rumoured.

Negotiations took longer. But it got done.

It did get done, but when you state your goal is to start of well so you don’t fall
Out of contention by game 20 and you completely fall flat on your face doing that, as a Fan you look at it and evaluate it and say - “well, that was stupid”

Negotiating is using pressure points against each other. Brady knew if the team started off slow he’d be in a better negoatitong position so in theory he could of gotten more money and less term because of the pressure Dorion was under to get him into Ottawa to stop the bleeding. The slow start didn’t help Dorion in negoations or making his goal of a good start

Anyways like I said, stupid and idiotic you couldn’t of done this in the summer.

 

[DaveMatthew]

I'm starting to think a few people in here haven't seen what kind of pressure and vitriol a large fanbase does to their owners, GM, coaching staff and players and a daily basis.

Ottawa fans are a bunch of lil kittens in comparison.

There are a few posters in here who clearly don't pay attention to any other NHL team, or any other sport.

When you don't have any context and all you watch is the Ottawa Senators, it's easy to think that the team is good and the fans are just big bad meanies!

 

[Tuna99]

There are a few posters in here who clearly don't pay attention to any other NHL team, or any other sport.

When you don't have any context and all you watch is the Ottawa Senators, it's easy to think that the team is good and the fans are just big bad meanies!

Dave Poulin said it best on the radio the other day. Each city has a unique fans base and media pressure. He said the worst in the league is Philly by far, I know Vancouver are just complete savage animals when it comes to their players that a lot of their players want out. Montreal has its own weird obsessions - loved PK and Kovalev but didn’t like Damphousse who was from QC.

Ottawa is puppy land, it’s not a hard hitting city. The hardest media guy here is Mendes and he has nice dad written all over him.

Svech is not a leader… Chucky is.

Brady and family wanted promises on the future of the team spending… <— rumoured.

Negotiations took longer. But it got done.

Why didn’t he just show Brady his 162 page plan, done and done. It’s all there, all the winning and the genius and how it won’t be like Toronto. Multiple Stanley Cups are just 162 page read away.

 

[Knave]

What does $8.3 become when you convert it to CDN TIRE Money (that’s reduce for ON taxes etc).

I didn't realize Pierre Dorion was born yesterday and Ontario, its tax system was founded in 2019/2020.

Poor Dorion getting blindsided by the foundation of Canada and its modern tax system.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Dave Poulin said it best on the radio the other day. Each city has a unique fans base and media pressure. He said the worst in the league is Philly by far, I know Vancouver are just complete savage animals when it comes to their players that a lot of their players want out. Montreal has its own weird obsessions - loved PK and Kovalev but didn’t like Damphousse who was from QC.

Ottawa is puppy land, it’s not a hard hitting city. The hardest media guy here is Mendes and he has nice dad written all over him.



Why didn’t he just show Brady his 162 page plan, done and done. It’s all there, all the winning and the genius and how it won’t be like Toronto. Multiple Stanley Cups are just 162 page read away.

Because they were in the middle of a pandemic. The plan (aka the bible) is now being re-written.

 

[bert]

Svech is not a leader… Chucky is.

Brady and family wanted promises on the future of the team spending… <— rumoured.

Negotiations took longer. But it got done.

I mean we only know half of this. Svechnikov plays like someone that is a leader thats for sure. His physicality and compete level is as high as anyone playing in the playoffs right now.

I am fine with Bradys contract, tiny overpayment doesnt mean anything when youre this far below the cap. It also installs confidence for other players to sign here long term. I dont know how people dont see the value in that for him and Chabot. Svech signed for a really good deal under market value. But he is on a contender and its an easier market to play in. So whatever, complaining about Tkachuks contract is a ridiculous thing to do. Actually the amount of complaining that goes on around here for over paying a colin white by a million or Tkachuk by 300 k is laughable considering how bad some of the other contracts are. Team has 16 million tied up in players that barely or dont belong in the league and they are worried about 300 k to the captain of the team. Nonsense.

 

[Sweatred]

I mean we only know half of this. Svechnikov doesnt plays like someone that is a leader thats for sure. His physicality and compete level is as high as anyone playing in the playoffs right now.

I am fine with Bradys contract, tiny overpayment doesnt mean anything when youre this far below the cap. It also installs confidence for other players to sign here long term. I dont know how people dont see the value in that for him and Chabot. Svech signed for a really good deal under market value. But he is on a contender and its an easier market to play in. So whatever, complaining about Tkachuks contract is a ridiculous thing to do. Actually the amount of complaining that goes on around here for over paying a colin white by a million or Tkachuk by 300 k is laughable considering how bad some of the other contracts are. Team has 16 million tied up in players that barely or dont belong in the league and they are worried about 300 k to the captain of the team. Nonsense.

I think you may be the only person who thinks Colin White is overpaid by a million…. No one, especially Pierre Dorion and the Sens, buys out players overpaid by ~20% of their contract. They buyout players overpaid by 50-100% of their contact.

Who knows … if you are right he won’t be bought out or traded for another bad contract.

 

[Tuna99]

Because they were in the middle of a pandemic. The plan (aka the bible) is now being re-written.

How do you know that?

 

[swiftwin]

I think you may be the only person who thinks Colin White is overpaid by a million…. No one, especially Pierre Dorion and the Sens, buys out players overpaid by ~20% of their contract. They buyout players overpaid by 50-100% of their contact.

Who knows … if you are right he won’t be bought out or traded for another bad contract.

Not at a 2/3 buyout cost.

But White is in a pretty rare scenario where a buyout only costs 1/3 of his contract.

That being said, however, I still don't think White should be bought out.

 

[Golden_Jet]

It did get done, but when you state your goal is to start of well so you don’t fall
Out of contention by game 20 and you completely fall flat on your face doing that, as a Fan you look at it and evaluate it and say - “well, that was stupid”

Negotiating is using pressure points against each other. Brady knew if the team started off slow he’d be in a better negoatitong position so in theory he could of gotten more money and less term because of the pressure Dorion was under to get him into Ottawa to stop the bleeding. The slow start didn’t help Dorion in negoations or making his goal of a good start

Anyways like I said, stupid and idiotic you couldn’t of done this in the summer.

Brady was signed on opening night, and he got term, sure we could of signed him earlier without term, glad we didn’t. It takes two to tango.

 

[Tuna99]

Brady was signed on opening night, and he got term, sure we could of signed him earlier without term, glad we didn’t. It takes two to tango.

Brady said he wanted to stay, his brother said he wanted to stay, I don’t think term was an issue. But again, why delay the signing so your captain isn’t in camp.

Stupid self inflicted wound. And what does it show Norris, Sanderson, Timmy and all these other guys who want big money in 1-2 years. Dorion will fold and keep you out for a week but you’ll get what you want.

And not to mention ticket sales and stability for a franchise that has is desperate for stability, the fans losing faith in the GM - all these things factored into giving Brady more then Svechnikov got who also was locked up for a full 8 years and Brady got 600k more per season. Stupid

 

[Golden_Jet]

Brady said he wanted to stay, his brother said he wanted to stay, I don’t think term was an issue. But again, why delay the signing so your captain isn’t in camp.

Stupid self inflicted wound. And what does it show Norris, Sanderson, Timmy and all these other guys who want big money in 1-2 years. Dorion will fold and keep you out for a week but you’ll get what you want.

And not to mention ticket sales and stability for a franchise that has is desperate for stability, the fans losing faith in the GM - all these things factored into giving Brady more then Svechnikov got who also was locked up for a full 8 years and Brady got 600k more per season. Stupid

Lol, yep I’m sure they thought hey we should delay the signing, it’s called a negotiation for a reason. He’s signed you should probabLy get over it now.

 

[Tuna99]

Lol, yep I’m sure they thought hey we should delay the signing, it’s called a negotiation for a reason. He’s signed you should probabLy get over it now.

The larger issue is Dorion achieving his goals. He wants Chabot to play meaningful games next year - what does that even mean. We get to game 65 and are 6 points out of the playoffs and have a back to back against the #8 team and we lose both games and are now 10 points out. Is that meaningful hockey? They are must win games, but would that check Dorion’s box of meaningful hockey. The management is such a gong show it probably would be defined as meaningful games, just kicking the can down the road from being eliminated after game 10 to being eliminated at game 67.

 

[BankStreetParade]

You realize that by nature of being on an internet message board talking about the Ottawa Senators every day, we are 0.1% of the fanbase, right?

I mean, do you think a regular fan spends hours discussing the pros and cons of drafting Roby Jarventie over JJ Peterka!?

99% of fans in Ottawa don't care about a goalie coach, or Pierre McGuire, or Pierre Dorion, or the "162 page rebuild plan". Ask them "what do you think of the Senators?" and their likely response is, "Don't they still suck? Hopefully they're good again soon." All they want is a good team that makes the playoffs and a fun night out at a game once in a while.

You'd probably chastise them for being bad, cheap fans.

Care too much? Bad fan!
Care too little? Bad fan!

So who's in the 0.1% of the fanbase? Are the people who have TSN1200 on all day? Are the people who listen to Sens-focused podcasts? Are the ones who comment on the Sens Facebook posts? Twitter? Reddit? It's funny how you'll make up nonsense scenarios (prove anyone here has spent hours discussing Jarventie vs Peterka) to prove a point no one is making. You're right - 99% of the fans in Ottawa don't care about the goalie coach. You're wrong that 99% of fans don't care about Pierre McGuire or the General Manager. And then you finish it with the piece de resistance, a classic strawman argument for you to pummel about me chastising "bad, cheap fans". It's honestly hilariously bad trolling. Give us a little bit of effort instead of the usual low-energy attacks you always have at the ready in your bag of cheap tricks.

Pathetic.

 

[DaveMatthew]

So who's in the 0.1% of the fanbase? Are the people who have TSN1200 on all day? Are the people who listen to Sens-focused podcasts? Are the ones who comment on the Sens Facebook posts? Twitter? Reddit? It's funny how you'll make up nonsense scenarios (prove anyone here has spent hours discussing Jarventie vs Peterka) to prove a point no one is making. You're right - 99% of the fans in Ottawa don't care about the goalie coach. You're wrong that 99% of fans don't care about Pierre McGuire or the General Manager. And then you finish it with the piece de resistance, a classic strawman argument for you to pummel about me chastising "bad, cheap fans". It's honestly hilariously bad trolling. Give us a little bit of effort instead of the usual low-energy attacks you always have at the ready in your bag of cheap tricks.

Pathetic.

Yes, those people.

The City of Ottawa has over a million people. I'd venture to guess that over 999,000 of those people don't live and die with the goings on of the Ottawa Senators. They like the team. They'll watch games when they're on. They hope they win. They'll buy some tickets when the team does well and the CTC is the place to be.

But I'm going to give you a newsflash. You, and me, are in the very small minority. We're nerds (you seem like a very angry one) on an internet message board arguing about things most people couldn't give two shits about. Most people aren't wondering whether Pierre Dorion will go after Kevin Fiala or Frank Vatrano in July.

This board has what, 50 or so very active posters? It's the same people in every thread going back and forth. But you love blowing everything up into "Oh my god the entire fanbase and city is cheap and mean and terrible because look at this post being critical of Pierre Dorion!!!"

 

[coladin]

The man really is an idiot. Why publicly disclose in your year-end press conference that Chabot and Tkachuk said what they said? Just keep it to yourself, man. There is no benefit to the market and the league knowing that Chabot and Tkachuk feel that way. It's mind boggling that this man has been employed in a public-facing role for this long.

Whether Dorion disclosed it or not, he has picks. He has assets. He has prospects. It really doesn’t matter and the other GM will want the best possible deal.

 

[Tuna99]

Whether Dorion disclosed it or not, he has picks. He has assets. He has prospects. It really doesn’t matter and the other GM will want the best possible deal.

all true, he’s still an idiot for saying Chabot and the players told him they want to make the playoffs and his reply is “we’re looking to play meaningful games.”

 

[coladin]

all true, he’s still an idiot for saying Chabot and the players told him they want to make the playoffs and his reply is “we’re looking to play meaningful games.”

Did you want a guarantee? Of course everyone wants to make the playoffs. I am totally fine next year playing meaningful games. What does that mean? For me, April means something . I wouldn’t mind to have a season like Winnipeg or Vancouver had this year. They can make the playoffs next year