GDT: GM#9 LA Kings vs Dallas Stars @5:30 10/23/18

[SettlementRichie10]

To me these are outsized expectations. A 1st and decent prospect for Carter? Lombardi didn't give that much to get him 6 years ago. They'll be lucky to get a 1st and whatever the equivalent of Johnson would be. Kovalchuk has a 35+ contract. He's not exactly an asset, and especially not just for picks. Toffoli, in a speed league, is going to get a 1st and another decent prospect? Ok.

The Kings have not been in a position to facilitate the tank since the day Quick signed his retirement contract. Lombardi stupidly tried to take advantage of the pre-2013 contract rules, and now nobody is going to need an aging and injury prone goalie, at a $6m cap hit, until 2023.

Johnson in 2012 had astronomically more value than your run of the mill prospect. Are you joking?

A 1st and a top four PMD >>>>> A 1st and a prospect. Stop it.

Again, I’m not talking a Cody Glass tier prospect. I’m talking about the Mckeowns and Zykovs of the world.

Edit: Toffoli had three seasons with 20 or more goals. If Tatar can fetch as much as he did last year, Toffoli can get as much or more.

I understand people are upset with these players right now, but you’re criminally undervaluing the assets we DO have. Adding a Jeff Carter or Tyler Toffoli for picks/prospects is exactly what contending teams are looking to do. Hell, that’s what we did in 2014 with Gaborik. Contenders are willing to take chances and give up assets for these players. It happens every. Single. Year.

No, we’re not going to be landing a Nylander, but these players DO have value. You’re drowning in your own cynicism if you think we can’t unload some of these guys for picks/prospects to facilitate a tank.

The only immovable contracts we have are Kopitar, Brown, Quick, and Phaneuf. Everyone else holds trade value if the price is right.

 

[deaderhead28]

Post-game Quotes From Stevens.

October 23 Rapid Reaction (feat. Daryl Evans): Stars 4, Kings 2 - LA Kings Insider

 

[kilowatt]

This team isn’t skilled enough to play creative hockey nor disclipined enough to play the heavy forecheck disciplined hockey. We’re doing some strange mix of both, poorly. This should have been a 5-2 loss. This roster needs an overhaul in a bad way.

The Kings need to move Forbort and Phaneuf at the very least. These two guys aren’t cutting it. Have Phaneuf retire and hire him to a cushy consultant position. We could probably afford to lose Martinez too.

Brickley - Doughty
Muzzin - LaDue
Fantenberg - Wagner

Additionally, a lot of the forwards have been terrible. Clifford, Thompson, Kempe, Pearson, and Amadio all need to take a seat for a few games at the very least. Amadio reminds me of Nick Shore, and that ain’t good. We don’t have enough talent on offense - as usual - but what can you do. The two bright spots for me on offense are Iafallo and Kopitar. I can’t wait for Brown to get back either.

Iafallo - Kopitar - Brown
Kovalchuk - Carter - Rempal
Pearson - Kempe - Toffoli
Wagner - Amadio - Lewis

On paper, this looks pretty good, but almost every single player has regressed considerably.

 

[Herby]

Atleast the last time they were really bad we had young guys like Kopitar, Doughty, Johnson, POS, Quick to look forward to. There is very little to look forward to right now, no blue chip young talent to get excited about, just nothing. There are some players on this roster that (like Shore and King before them) that are going to have a hell of a time finding an NHL job when the Kings finally dump them.

Blake has such a massive hole to dig out of, and right now he's digging deeper rather than digging out.

 

[Herby]

Phaneuf and Thompson are two of the worst players on the team. Taking up $7m in cap space (that is with OTT retention). Phaneuf another two years after this one, talk about a brutal contract.

And we can't expect Phaneuf to retire and give up $14m in salary. The Kings just can't shake these awful contracts that have plagued them since the 2014 cup win. This looks like another one.

 

[kingsfan28]

This was before the game. Now...

 

[deaderhead28]

 

[KingsFan7824]

Johnson in 2012 had astronomically more value than your run of the mill prospect. Are you joking?

A 1st and a top four PMD >>>>> A 1st and a prospect. Stop it.

Again, I’m not talking a Cody Glass tier prospect. I’m talking about the Mckeowns and Zykovs of the world.

Edit: Toffoli had three seasons with 20 or more goals. If Tatar can fetch as much as he did last year, Toffoli can get as much or more.

I understand people are upset with these players right now, but you’re criminally undervaluing the assets we DO have. Adding a Jeff Carter or Tyler Toffoli for picks/prospects is exactly what contending teams are looking to do. Hell, that’s what we did in 2014 with Gaborik. Contenders are willing to take chances and give up assets for these players. It happens every. Single. Year.

No, we’re not going to be landing a Nylander, but these players DO have value. You’re drowning in your own cynicism if you think we can’t unload some of these guys for picks/prospects to facilitate a tank.

The only immovable contracts we have are Kopitar, Brown, Quick, and Phaneuf. Everyone else holds trade value if the price is right.

You might also be overvaluing Johnson. He started out as JMFJ, but by then time he left, we had ripped him apart for his poor defensive play, and his college hockey physicality. A flawed top 4 PMD.

Gaborik was a soon to be UFA. Versteeg was a soon to be UFA. Vegas gave up a bunch of picks for Tatar, but Vegas had a bunch of cap space, and a bunch of extra picks because of all the expansion deals they made. Not every contender in any given year is in that same position. Probably none of them are actually. The problem with Carter is the 3 additional seasons at $5m on the cap after this year.

They're currently 30th, and have shown no signs of getting better. I'd keep the whole miserable group together, including the coach, and just drive this season into the ground. If there's a deal to make, you make it, but don't do it just to do it. Blake's got no leverage right now. There's no deal to make where he's going to win or come out ahead. They might be able to unload some of them, but I just don't think it's going to be much of a return. No expiring contracts, a bunch of old guys, and we're all constantly ripping Toffoli for how slow and lazy he looks. I can see why other GM's should line up to get him, with his 0 playoff goals since 2014.

 

[yankeeking]

Well at well at least Walker looked good, so when we bring guys up from Ontario the guys look like players , then after a few games they are lost too or benched and lose confidence , the one thing you must have at this level, and the coaches are still employed? .....on a different level of ideas on why a whole roster has regressed at the same time didn't six or seven guys get married and the whole team spent weekend after weekend partying, maybe they simply didn't put in the work necessary to compete , last summer we heard how they all spent the summer getting ready and we came out like gangbusters and this year they spent it at wedding after wedding , we looked bad thru out the preseason and how is it possible that twenty two players of different ages and skill levels completely regress enough to not compete all in one summer

 

[Fat Elvis]

Just a bad hockey team and the addition of Brown isn't going to turn them into a good team. It's going to be a long season.

On a side note* I wonder what the over\under is for broken sticks by Doughty after goals against? Gotta be around 40

 

[YP44]

Muzzin looked like he could not hit the broad side of a barn last night.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

You might also be overvaluing Johnson. He started out as JMFJ, but by then time he left, we had ripped him apart for his poor defensive play, and his college hockey physicality. A flawed top 4 PMD.

Gaborik was a soon to be UFA. Versteeg was a soon to be UFA. Vegas gave up a bunch of picks for Tatar, but Vegas had a bunch of cap space, and a bunch of extra picks because of all the expansion deals they made. Not every contender in any given year is in that same position. Probably none of them are actually. The problem with Carter is the 3 additional seasons at $5m on the cap after this year.

They're currently 30th, and have shown no signs of getting better. I'd keep the whole miserable group together, including the coach, and just drive this season into the ground. If there's a deal to make, you make it, but don't do it just to do it. Blake's got no leverage right now. There's no deal to make where he's going to win or come out ahead. They might be able to unload some of them, but I just don't think it's going to be much of a return. No expiring contracts, a bunch of old guys, and we're all constantly ripping Toffoli for how slow and lazy he looks. I can see why other GM's should line up to get him, with his 0 playoff goals since 2014.

Most players are flawed. But Johnson did have a lot of value in 2012. He was a legitimate top four D, and the centerpiece in that Carter deal.

Toffoli currently has 3 goals and 3 assists in 9 games played on one of the worst teams in the league. Call him slow and lazy all you want, but he’s a productive player in a bad situation and teams will see it that way.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The more I watch this team, the less interested and motivated I get, then I tune in to watch other games and wonder exactly how this team expects to compete against the upper echelon clubs?

This team can't pass, can't shoot, can't hit, can't skate... it is just completely dysfunctional. Watching Kings hockey is more of a chore than a form of entertainment.

Hey, maybe they'll release more stupid, nonsensical ads to keep us all tuned in.

 

[lexlavender]

"Let the kids play!!!"

"Oh damn, these kids f***ing suck"

All you people wonder why Sutter was reluctant to play kids. You can have all the skill in the world, but if you aren't acclimated to the team's systems and the league, you're going to hurt the team. I still have hope for Amadio, who I think would thrive with consistent, skilled line-mates (not Thompson and Clifford), but Kempe seems like a lost cause. He's fast but cant do much else, and is more suited for a rush game than forecheck. He's also very obviously a better winger than Center.

Putting Rempal with Kovy and Carter also seems like a great way to kill offense; he doesn't have nearly the experience to enable them.

Iafallo might also be the highest scorer on our team, but you can see even with him the little moments where his inexperience kills a cycle. Doesn't help to be skating with Toffoli though, that's for sure.

 

[YP44]

"Let the kids play!!!"

"Oh damn, these kids ****ing suck"

All you people wonder why Sutter was reluctant to play kids. You can have all the skill in the world, but if you aren't acclimated to the team's systems and the league, you're going to hurt the team. I still have hope for Amadio, who I think would thrive with consistent, skilled line-mates (not Thompson and Clifford), but Kempe seems like a lost cause. He's fast but cant do much else, and is more suited for a rush game than forecheck. He's also very obviously a better winger than Center.

Putting Rempal with Kovy and Carter also seems like a great way to kill offense; he doesn't have nearly the experience to enable them.

Iafallo might also be the highest scorer on our team, but you can see even with him the little moments where his inexperience kills a cycle. Doesn't help to be skating with Toffoli though, that's for sure.

Kempe did a very good job filling in for Carter last year and I still have hopes for him and would not call him a lost cause.

 

[lexlavender]

The biggest thing is that we have a ton of young players who are thrown to the fire and expected to play like they're on a contender, rather than play them with the expectation of teaching them. A line-up with tons of youth would be fine on a team that admits it's rebuilding and makes a concerted effort to teach new players rather than expect them to perform.

The simple fact is we have garbage depth; outside of Kovy, Kopitar, Carter, and posdposs Iafallo, we have barely any forwards playing at an NHL level. For Rempal, Amadio, and Wagner, that should be expected. For Kempe, Toffoli, Pearson, Clifford, Thompson, and Lewis that's back breaking.

 

[DoktorJeep]

"Let the kids play!!!"

"Oh damn, these kids ****ing suck"

All you people wonder why Sutter was reluctant to play kids. You can have all the skill in the world, but if you aren't acclimated to the team's systems and the league, you're going to hurt the team. I still have hope for Amadio, who I think would thrive with consistent, skilled line-mates (not Thompson and Clifford), but Kempe seems like a lost cause. He's fast but cant do much else, and is more suited for a rush game than forecheck. He's also very obviously a better winger than Center.

Putting Rempal with Kovy and Carter also seems like a great way to kill offense; he doesn't have nearly the experience to enable them.

Iafallo might also be the highest scorer on our team, but you can see even with him the little moments where his inexperience kills a cycle. Doesn't help to be skating with Toffoli though, that's for sure.

If your regular defense features Phaneuf, Forbort, and Martinez, that leaves one open spot for a young defensemen to play.

Currently, I think LaDue, Brickley, Fantenberg, and now Walker should dress over any two of those vets any given game.

The Kings can’t score because their breakouts are terrible and that is because half the defenseman can no longer skate or pass the puck at the NHL level for any significant minutes

 

[lexlavender]

If your regular defense features Phaneuf, Forbort, and Martinez, that leaves one open spot for a young defensemen to play.

Currently, I think LaDue, Brickley, Fantenberg, and now Walker should dress over any two of those vets any given game.

The Kings can’t score because their breakouts are terrible and that is because half the defenseman can no longer skate or pass the puck at the NHL level for any significant minutes

I was more referring to the offense, I agree with our defense.

 

[KingsHockey24]

Good. Bout damn time Kempe gets 4th line minutes.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Kempe shouldn't even be playing. He brings nothing of value to the team, aside from taking countless minor penalties.

 

[YP44]

Good. Bout damn time Kempe gets 4th line minutes.

not a fan of the 3rd and 4th or Pearson on the right side here. I would go with either of the 2 below.

Iafallo - Kopitar - Toffoli
Kempe - Carter - Kovalchuk
Pearson - Amadio - Lewis
Clifford/Wagner - Thompson - Rempal

or

Iafallo - Kopitar - Kovalchuk
Kempe - Carter - Toffoli
Pearson - Amadio - Lewis
Clifford/Wagner - Thompson - Rempal

 

[Seventyx7]

Good. Bout damn time Kempe gets 4th line minutes.

I see two fourth lines.

 

[YP44]

Kempe shouldn't even be playing. He brings nothing of value to the team, aside from taking countless minor penalties.

He brings speed and I believe is still a good player. He should be in the line up over Thompson, Rempal and others but I would like to see him on the wing a little but to get his confidence back up.

 

[KingsHockey24]

He brings speed and I believe is still a good player. He should be in the line up over Thompson, Rempal and others but I would like to see him on the wing a little but to get his confidence back up.

Speed yet he always is two steps behind and takes countless hooking/holding penalties or O zone penalties.

Honestly the Clifford/Thompson/Amadio line was one of our best last night. Wouldn't be surprised if Kempe f***s that up now.

 

[Bandit]

Not many, and the New England Patriots are the exception due to Brady. That doesn't excuse management from doing the right thing though.

If every team is just trying to "stay competitive" it should be extremely easy to trade your best assets for younger up and coming assets and embrace the suck once your team's run is over. I will always be fine with a great 3 year run of being one of the top two teams in the NHL followed by 5 years of rebuild then another 3-4 years of being contender. Watching the building process is fun. Watching your team contend is fun. This is NOT fun.

No argument from me on that.