GDT: GM#59 LA Kings vs Chicago Blackhawks @5:30

[kingsboy11]

Los Angeles Kings(31-21-5, 67pts, 5th in Pacific) @ Chicago Blackhawks(25-26-8, 58 pts, last in Central)
United Center| Chicago, IL
TIME: 5:30 pm PT | TV: FSW | RADIO: 790 KABC

QUICK STATS
Previous meeting: LAK 3-1

PP/PK	18th/3rd	29th/5th
Faceoffs	21st	19th
Leading Scorers	Anze Kopitar:25 goals, 38 assists, 63 points	Patrick Kane: 22 goals, 33 assists, 55 points

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Lines*

Extras: Kevin Gravel, Paul Ladue, Michael Mersch
Injuries: Trevor Lewis, Jeff Carter

Injuries: Corey Crawford, Michael Rozsival, Marian Hossa

News/Notes:

• Jonathan Quick was off the ice first at morning skate. No other changes to the Kings lineup.
  

Click to read more...

 

[Bandit]

Thank god Chicago broke their streak last game. At least we have a chance now... Then again, Chicago is using their 8th & 9th string goalies, so we're probably boned anyway.

 

[Little Psycho]

Kopitar>>>Toews

 

[KINGS17]

Kopitar>>>Toews

Certainly true this season. Last season it was more like Kopitar = Toews.

BTW, here is a link to something interesting on the Chicago board regarding Toews' starts in the offensive zone compared to other highly compensated centers around the NHL.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...more-than-a-lot-of-other-top-centers.2451131/

 

[Little Psycho]

Certainly true this season. Last season it was more like Kopitar = Toews.

BTW, here is a link to something interesting on the Chicago board regarding Toews' starts in the offensive zone compared to other highly compensated centers around the NHL.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...more-than-a-lot-of-other-top-centers.2451131/

I thought Toews was having just a bad season last year like Kopi, but his downwards trend still continues. It's really worrisome for the Hawks.

I saw that thread this morning when I was lurking around, notice that Kopi is on the bottom of the list.

 

[KINGS17]

I thought Toews was having just a bad season last year like Kopi, but his downwards trend still continues. It's really worrisome for the Hawks.

I saw that thread this morning when I was lurking around, notice that Kopi is on the bottom of the list.

Yup, Kopitar is still one of the premier defensive centers in the NHL, and he is have a fine season offensively as well.

 

[lexlavender]

There's more to zone starts than just where the coach starts you, because each team has a different amounts of offensive and defensive center faceoffs in any given game, and that number is heavily related to possession. IE, bad possession teams have a greater number of defensive zone starts vs offensive ones.

That's not to say that Kopitar isn't being used defensively, just that our team is super shitty at possession, and that "inflates" the defensive zone start stat

Back when we were really good at possession under Sutter, all of our centers had inflated offensive zone starts, to give the opposite example.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

There's more to zone starts than just where the coach starts you, because each team has a different amounts of offensive and defensive center faceoffs in any given game, and that number is heavily related to possession. IE, bad possession teams have a greater number of defensive zone starts vs offensive ones.

That's not to say that Kopitar isn't being used defensively, just that our team is super ****ty at possession, and that "inflates" the defensive zone start stat

Back when we were really good at possession under Sutter, all of our centers had inflated offensive zone starts, to give the opposite example.

Don't disagree on the raw numbers, but you can also see those numbers relative to team, which will show how a coach is using each player. Kopitar historically has still been buried relatively. Carter's line and the de facto 3rd line always saw the most ozone starts, 4th line often had a lot of neutral and dzone, Kopitar had the lions share though. Nick Shore frankly did very well in his role allowing Kopitar a few more ozone starts.

 

[johnjm22]

There's more to zone starts than just where the coach starts you, because each team has a different amounts of offensive and defensive center faceoffs in any given game, and that number is heavily related to possession. IE, bad possession teams have a greater number of defensive zone starts vs offensive ones.

That's not to say that Kopitar isn't being used defensively, just that our team is super ****ty at possession, and that "inflates" the defensive zone start stat

Back when we were really good at possession under Sutter, all of our centers had inflated offensive zone starts, to give the opposite example.

That's true, but Kopitar's career OZ start percentage isn't very high.

This year Kempe's OZ start percentage is 71%. Amadio's is 68%. Even Doughty's is 52%.

And Toews and Kane are on a "bad" team, but their OZ%'s are still pretty high. According to Hockey Reference 58.2% for Toews, and 67.2% for Kane.

 

[EbonyRaptor]

I thought Toews was having just a bad season last year like Kopi, but his downwards trend still continues. It's really worrisome for the Hawks.

I saw that thread this morning when I was lurking around, notice that Kopi is on the bottom of the list.

With the exception of last game against the Caps and maybe one or two other games, Toews hasn't looked like the old Toews this season. I can speculate that maybe the concussions finally caught up with him but I have no solid evidence to go on except what I see from watching every game on TV. What I see is his puck skills have almost completely abandoned him. It's like he doesn't "feel the puck" on his stick and consequently can't make the plays he used to. I also question if his hand/eye coordination is the same as it used to be. I don't know - I'm keeping my fingers crossed because the Hawks won't be a contender with this version of Toews.

 

[KingsFan7824]

With the exception of last game against the Caps and maybe one or two other games, Toews hasn't looked like the old Toews this season. I can speculate that maybe the concussions finally caught up with him but I have no solid evidence to go on except what I see from watching every game on TV. What I see is his puck skills have almost completely abandoned him. It's like he doesn't "feel the puck" on his stick and consequently can't make the plays he used to. I also question if his hand/eye coordination is the same as it used to be. I don't know - I'm keeping my fingers crossed because the Hawks won't be a contender with this version of Toews.

Does it seem like there's no body in his jersey when it's going up and down the ice too? Because that sounds a lot like Mike Richards(on the ice). Although if Richards had 40 points in 56 games, he doesn't get bought out, regardless of any minor border incident.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

With the exception of last game against the Caps and maybe one or two other games, Toews hasn't looked like the old Toews this season. I can speculate that maybe the concussions finally caught up with him but I have no solid evidence to go on except what I see from watching every game on TV. What I see is his puck skills have almost completely abandoned him. It's like he doesn't "feel the puck" on his stick and consequently can't make the plays he used to. I also question if his hand/eye coordination is the same as it used to be. I don't know - I'm keeping my fingers crossed because the Hawks won't be a contender with this version of Toews.

That’s an interesting observation. Not that they’re 100% comparable, but when Richards was on the Kings (other than 2011-12, really) his puck skills were just non-existent. He certainly had some concussion issues (particularly Bolland’s hit in the 2013 WCF).

On the other hand, Richards also had plenty of physical deterioration. I seem to recall him having shoulder problems through this career, which would explain him losing his capabilities with the puck.

 

[Sol]

That’s an interesting observation. Not that they’re 100% comparable, but when Richards was on the Kings (other than 2011-12, really) his puck skills were just non-existent. He certainly had some concussion issues (particularly Bolland’s hit in the 2013 WCF).

On the other hand, Richards also had plenty of physical deterioration. I seem to recall him having shoulder problems through this career, which would explain him losing his capabilities with the puck.

That's EXACTLY who I thought of.


Richards lost all coordination, his speed and puck handling abilities.

It was so hard to watch. Maybe Toews is going through something similar, which sucks since Richards never got better

 

[johnjm22]

Richards was likely addicted to drugs which played a part in his decline. He also wasn't comitted to staying in shape and putting in work in the offseason.

Toews is still scoring at a 50 point pace. He's won everything. Probably just needs some kind change to re spark him. He doesn't look motivated.

 

[regulate]

These lines are ugly. At least the 2nd and 3rd.

 

[EbonyRaptor]

That’s an interesting observation. Not that they’re 100% comparable, but when Richards was on the Kings (other than 2011-12, really) his puck skills were just non-existent. He certainly had some concussion issues (particularly Bolland’s hit in the 2013 WCF).

On the other hand, Richards also had plenty of physical deterioration. I seem to recall him having shoulder problems through this career, which would explain him losing his capabilities with the puck.

That's an interesting thought regarding (non-concussion) physical injuries having a deteriorating effect because although Toews' legs/base is pretty strong, his upper body is more "slight' from a structural standpoint than you might think. He has spent a lot of time in the opponent's blue paint over the years and there might be something to the accumulative effect of all the abuse he's taken.

Whatever the cause, it's pretty obvious he doesn't have the same skill level he used to, at least not consistently.

 

[Little Psycho]

Hmm don't like the Forbort and Doughty pairing, actually I just don't like Forbort.

 

[Fishhead]

Hmm don't like the Forbort and Doughty pairing, actually I just don't like Forbort.

Reading Doughty's quotes, you'd think he was playing with an all-star.

“I think Forbs has turned into an amazing player,” Doughty said. “I don’t know if everyone realizes how good he is at defense. He’s like amazing at defense, he really is.”

Forbort can be solid, but when I think of his defense "Amazing" doesn't come anywhere near my mind. It's why I take everything DD says with a grain of salt.

 

[johnjm22]

Brown needs to score some goals if he's going to play on the top line. He has 1 goal in his last 17 games. Iafallo at least has 4 goals over that same stretch.

Amazing Kopitar has as many points as he does playing with these two much of the year.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I mean, people here blast Doughty for speaking his mind all the time, why would he f***ing lie about Forbort?

The lengths people will go to to trash this guy are getting longer every day.

I don't want him playing with Drew, don't get me wrong, but people treat this guy like Ran_y Jones or Denis Gauthier.

When every statistic, the coach's usage, and now the best defenseman in the game are telling you something, at what point do you admit there's an overwhelming mountain of evidence that the guy is a solid NHLer?

 

[Little Psycho]

Reading Doughty's quotes, you'd think he was playing with an all-star.

“I think Forbs has turned into an amazing player,” Doughty said. “I don’t know if everyone realizes how good he is at defense. He’s like amazing at defense, he really is.”

Forbort can be solid, but when I think of his defense "Amazing" doesn't come anywhere near my mind. It's why I take everything DD says with a grain of salt.

Poor guy has forgotten what it was like to play with great partners.

 

[tsanuri]

I mean, people here blast Doughty for speaking his mind all the time, why would he ****ing lie about Forbort?

The lengths people will go to to trash this guy are getting longer every day.

I don't want him playing with Drew, don't get me wrong, but people treat this guy like Ran_y Jones or Denis Gauthier.

When every statistic, the coach's usage, and now the best defenseman in the game are telling you something, at what point do you admit there's an overwhelming mountain of evidence that the guy is a solid NHLer?

I'm sure he's pumping the tires a little. But isn't that what a good leader should do.
But then that might ruin another narrative that's been going around.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Poor guy has forgotten what it was like to play with great partners.

Also true

Best guy he's ever played with is Muzzin. Muzzin's no slouch, but I can't imagine Drew having a Stralman like Hedman does, or even Lindell to Klingberg, etc.

 

[tsanuri]

Let's just hope the better playing team of ours shows up.
We'll still need some help tonight but if Vegas can win in regulation we'll be back into 3rd.
As Stevens said we have to take care of our business.

 

[LAKings88]

Reading Doughty's quotes, you'd think he was playing with an all-star.

“I think Forbs has turned into an amazing player,” Doughty said. “I don’t know if everyone realizes how good he is at defense. He’s like amazing at defense, he really is.”

Forbort can be solid, but when I think of his defense "Amazing" doesn't come anywhere near my mind. It's why I take everything DD says with a grain of salt.

DD is just propping him up as we near the trade deadline.