GDT: GM#2 LA Kings vs Detroit Red Wings @7:30pm 10/7/18

[King'sPawn]

You do realize the team, specifically the coaching staff, is paid to win games right? Just checking, because the decisions they make, are going to be around winning games, and they really insulated Iafallo, 16:20, you know why, because he proved DEFENSIVELY, he can handle it, once Amadio does the same, guess what, he will get more minutes, kinda weird how reality works. I don't mention JAD, because he won't be up here past the 9 games he gets to play,

Anyways, you keep on stomping your feet and huffing and puffing and not enjoying any hockey this season, let me know how that works out for you.

Before being condescending, you might want to look at Amadio's career.

He was the top player and top scorer on the top defensive team in the OHL in his last two seasons.

He has also been one of the top forwards on the Reign, working his way through the Kings system, where defense is taught. Hence the call up.

Where has Amadio shown in his total of 15 minutes of play time that he can't handle it? I assume you have examples since you're saying he's getting so little playing time, because he can't handle it defensively.

 

[Little Psycho]

Wtf Kopi played 24 minutes? Stevens is shit at distributing ice time

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Before being condescending, you might want to look at Amadio's career.

He was the top player and top scorer on the top defensive team in the OHL in his last two seasons.

He has also been one of the top forwards on the Reign, working his way through the Kings system, where defense is taught. Hence the call up.

Where has Amadio shown in his total of 15 minutes of play time that he can't handle it? I assume you have examples since you're saying he's getting so little playing time, because he can't handle it defensively.

No, he's gotten so little playing time, because the coaches don't fully trust him yet, he's getting there, but not there yet. You know who else was a huge scorer in the OHL, Joey Hishon, Garret Wilson, Brady Vail etc.....

Cmon man, OHL stats means nothing in the NHL...hell where I am there are tons of ex-ohl players that scored well.....

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

LOL the other issues, breakouts and PP setup? Sure, let's talk about them, what specifically bothers you about them, F5 hanging on the far blue line, or F3 circling down to low? How about the PP setup, what specifically bothers you about that, and "it doesnt work" isn't specific, cmon now...

You do realize, that those players, are conditioned athletes, playing their SECOND GAME, they aren't gonna wear out over ONE GAME, you are taking ONE GAME and extrapolating it to mean that's going to happen EVERY GAME....that's the problem.

I'm extrapolating that because we have an entire season of evidence that shows exactly that. Are we just pretending this hasn't been going on since Stevens took over?

I went over the specifics all preseason, could draw you everything on a whiteboard with labels if you wanted, but I'd have to believe you actually want to discuss it in good faith...you don't. You just want to complain about people complaining.

Wagner may have stone hands but his speed and his ability to create turn overs is extremly impressive. If nhl coaching can help him with his shot then it's a big win for the Kings.

He's fearless and I love it.

 

[Sol]

Yes, because the initial plan was to have Kempe on the wing with Carter and Kovy, that's not going to work until Brown is back, so either you want a really really impotent 1st line, playing Wagner with Kopitar and Iafallo,

Or, you play Kovalchuk with Kopitar and Iafallo, and Pearson and Toffoli with Carter,

Seriously you are throwing a hissy fit over a barely 2nd year player, having to play 4th line....think about that for a minute.

His point is that Amadio when put with decent line mates can create offense. He's shown that in his career, and as a King. It's stupid to put him with talentless 4th liners who won't be able to utilize Amadios abilities.

 

[Sol]

I'm extrapolating that because we have an entire season of evidence that shows exactly that. Are we just pretending this hasn't been going on since Stevens took over?

I went over the specifics all preseason, could draw you everything on a whiteboard with labels if you wanted, but I'd have to believe you actually want to discuss it in good faith...you don't. You just want to complain about people complaining.




He's fearless and I love it.

It's a huge bonus to have a player that knows he could over power other players with his speed. If he was extremely fast but didn't have that mindset it would have been such a shame.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I'm extrapolating that because we have an entire season of evidence that shows exactly that. Are we just pretending this hasn't been going on since Stevens took over?

I went over the specifics all preseason, could draw you everything on a whiteboard with labels if you wanted, but I'd have to believe you actually want to discuss it in good faith...you don't. You just want to complain about people complaining.




He's fearless and I love it.

Again, throw pre-season out, playing hopefuls, never will be's, and over the hill guys trying for last gasp, against other teams sames,

Last 2 games, be specific now.....ready, go.

 

[Bandit]

Before being condescending, you might want to look at Amadio's career.

He was the top player and top scorer on the top defensive team in the OHL in his last two seasons.

He has also been one of the top forwards on the Reign, working his way through the Kings system, where defense is taught. Hence the call up.

Where has Amadio shown in his total of 15 minutes of play time that he can't handle it? I assume you have examples since you're saying he's getting so little playing time, because he can't handle it defensively.

Way too late for that.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Again, throw pre-season out, playing hopefuls, never will be's, and over the hill guys trying for last gasp, against other teams sames,

Last 2 games, be specific now.....ready, go.

You're not reading.

An. Entire. Season. of similar player usage. Am I speaking a different language?

The preseason was just a carryon of that, and now it's carrying into the season as well.

The PP breakout is a failure and predictable. The swoop play that the first unit does has been predictable even since last year. Everyone knows Doughty's going to make a weak rushing challenge before dumping it back to Kopitar...if the pass gets there. Then everyone just converges on him for a turnover, rinse, repeat, since none of the other players are charging with speed to keep anyone honest of the possibility of the dumpin since the carryin is all that matters. The second unit had more success because they basically were just playing 5v5. The other personnel that are newer, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt...but a unit with Kopitar, Doughty that's been doing this for years has no excuse for poor execution on a play that's predictable enough to sit on top of anyway. Sadly, they look good once theyr'e set up IN the zone, but if they lose the puck, PP is over. I don't know why everyone wants to force the drop pass play with this group because it doesn't work. Try something different. I could bitch about the umbrella since none of our d-men know how to just get shots through, but I'm okay with that because even if I disagree with it with our personnel at least there's a clear philosophy behind it.

The regular breakout...good lord, where do I start? I said in the preseason if I were a forechecker I could just sit on the left wing at the top of the zone because he's not moving and the puck is going there anyway. There, breakout neutralized, lol. beyond that, Stevens had an insistence--until he put ladue in, thank goodness--of putting a bunch of lefties on their backhands so we couldn't execute anything. And when the breakout "works," more often than not we're going 2v5, because we had to wait until the other team left the zone to even make the one LW pass. There's no fluidity, no one coming up with speed, no purpose. The only player who can gain the zone is Kopitar because he can go 1v2 or 1v3 and protect until support arrives.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Way too late for that.

Probably, just comes naturally though

 

[Sol]

LOL the other issues, breakouts and PP setup? Sure, let's talk about them, what specifically bothers you about them, F5 hanging on the far blue line, or F3 circling down to low? How about the PP setup, what specifically bothers you about that, and "it doesnt work" isn't specific, cmon now...

You do realize, that those players, are conditioned athletes, playing their SECOND GAME, they aren't gonna wear out over ONE GAME, you are taking ONE GAME and extrapolating it to mean that's going to happen EVERY GAME....that's the problem.

You want to talk about the PP issues ? Yes. Let me chip in if you don't mind.


The PP set up is extremly idiotic. It's so poorly done and doesn't utilize the players skills. How?

The high f***ing Umbrella. Two forwards parallel to the boards and a forward around the front of the net. Always taking the blue line shots that don't go through. The Kings defenseman aren't really talented but they get off the most shots. Why would a PP function like that? It's stupid.


Solution? Low umbrella. Have a rover behind the net and have the forwards on the boards skate towards the net a bit into better shooting lanes which would force the PK the collapse, or spread out hence opening up better passing lanes and oppurtunities.


The most successful PPs I've seen are the ones who utilize the back of the net when they're up a man because the Pk will always collapse in and open more shooting passing lanes.


Kings PP isnt lethal at all and isn't hard to defend against since the forwards on the boards are going to pass. To the blue line for a shot anyways. It's been high umbrella all the time and it's never changed Idk why


How often do you see another teams PK struggle and move out of position against the Kings?

If very rarely is the answer you come up with. Then the high umbrella is the problem.


Way too much talent from the forwards to rely on Muzzin and Martinez to get most of the shots off.

 

[Bandit]

Probably, just comes naturally though

I have no doubt.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

You're not reading.

An. Entire. Season. of similar player usage. Am I speaking a different language?

The preseason was just a carryon of that, and now it's carrying into the season as well.

The PP breakout is a failure and predictable. The swoop play that the first unit does has been predictable even since last year. Everyone knows Doughty's going to make a weak rushing challenge before dumping it back to Kopitar...if the pass gets there. Then everyone just converges on him for a turnover, rinse, repeat, since none of the other players are charging with speed to keep anyone honest of the possibility of the dumpin since the carryin is all that matters. The second unit had more success because they basically were just playing 5v5. The other personnel that are newer, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt...but a unit with Kopitar, Doughty that's been doing this for years has no excuse for poor execution on a play that's predictable enough to sit on top of anyway. Sadly, they look good once theyr'e set up IN the zone, but if they lose the puck, PP is over. I don't know why everyone wants to force the drop pass play with this group because it doesn't work. Try something different.

The regular breakout...good lord, where do I start? I said in the preseason if I were a forechecker I could just sit on the left wing at the top of the zone because he's not moving and the puck is going there anyway. There, breakout neutralized, lol. beyond that, Stevens had an insistence--until he put ladue in, thank goodness--of putting a bunch of lefties on their backhands so we couldn't execute anything. And when the breakout "works," more often than not we're going 2v5, because we had to wait until the other team left the zone to even make the one LW pass. There's no fluidity, no one coming up with speed, no purpose.

The PP breakout seems to be a thing all teams are doing now, idea being to have the opponents back off because of the speed, each team does it with some degree of variation, and you see it broken up by lining up 3 along the blue and one guy in the slot, etc, the reason why teams use it, is if it's gonna back the other team up, which it does, the idea is not to carry it in especially if there's a logjam on the blueline, but to chip it and get it in, then get it back to the point and set up, for that, you need 2 guys with speed going in, the guy chipping it and another, you have F4 and F5 hanging up by the blue to deflect it in if needed, but to keep the opposing team honest and back them up....

If you want to forecheck with one guy sitting still, be my guest, teams will eat that alive. There really are no scripted breakouts, you have one or two, that are scripted when teams change and the D is just hanging back, other than that, it's all about reading and reacting.

 

[Sol]

I'm not saying I'd make a better coach than Stevens but I sure as hell would run a power play better than Stevens. That's for damn sure. The guy is lost on the PP. The High umbrella for the talent the Kings have is so infuriating.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

You want to talk about the PP issues ? Yes. Let me chip in if you don't mind.


The PP set up is extremly idiotic. It's so poorly done and doesn't utilize the players skills. How?

The high ****ing Umbrella. Two forwards parallel to the boards and a forward around the front of the net. Always taking the blue line shots that don't go through. The Kings defenseman aren't really talented but they get off the most shots. Why would a PP function like that? It's stupid.


Solution? Low umbrella. Have a rover behind the net and have the forwards on the boards skate towards the net a bit into better shooting lanes which would force the PK the collapse, or spread out hence opening up better passing lanes and oppurtunities.


The most successful PPs I've seen are the ones who utilize the back of the net when they're up a man because the Pk will always collapse in and open more shooting passing lanes.


Kings PP isnt lethal at all and isn't hard to defend against since the forwards on the boards are going to pass. To the blue line for a shot anyways. It's been high umbrella all the time and it's never changed Idk why


How often do you see another teams PK struggle and move out of position against the Kings?

If very rarely is the answer you come up with. Then the high umbrella is the problem.


Way too much talent from the forwards to rely on Muzzin and Martinez to get most of the shots off.

This is painful to read, because the underlying premise is that it's easier to run the PP from behind the net or the corner, which actually LIMIT your options, only handful of players have the vision, patience and skill to stand behind the net, and Kings dont have any of them, but it literally limits your options and the reason why teams do that, is to free up the point, so they can get the puck to the point for.....a point shot....

 

[Sol]

This is painful to read, because the underlying premise is that it's easier to run the PP from behind the net or the corner, which actually LIMIT your options, only handful of players have the vision, patience and skill to stand behind the net, and Kings dont have any of them, but it literally limits your options and the reason why teams do that, is to free up the point, so they can get the puck to the point for.....a point shot....

Did you read any of what I said? Behind the net power plays opens up passing lanes if you cycle the puck quickly enough, especially with the forwards off the boards.

Kings have the talent to pull it off but they don't even try it.

Do you think the high umbrella the Kings play is good ?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Did you read any of what I said? Behind the net power plays opens up passing lanes if you cycle the puck quickly enough, especially with the forwards off the boards.

Kings have the talent to pull it off but they don't even try it.

Do you think the high umbrella the Kings play is good ?

I think it's a helluva lot better than what you are proposing, you are literally talking about putting one guy behind the net, one guy on the hash marks on each side, and what, 2 on the points, then who is in front of the net? Ok, one at the point, one in front....lots of chances on the PK for that, and helluva lot easier to defend....all the D has to do is step out about a foot and a half each side and they are in the passing lane that you think is there...

 

[Sol]

I can't be the only one that thinks the Kings loading up around the blueline with a man advantage with the talent they have is idiotic.

 

[Sol]

I think it's a helluva lot better than what you are proposing, you are literally talking about putting one guy behind the net, one guy on the hash marks on each side, and what, 2 on the points, then who is in front of the net? Ok, one at the point, one in front....lots of chances on the PK for that, and helluva lot easier to defend....all the D has to do is step out about a foot and a half each side and they are in the passing lane that you think is there...

And all they'd have to do to get it open is to rover around a bit and draw out the PK, passing lanes open. I'm not saying the forwards have To be stagnant. If they rover around in that vicinity like most successful pks do it, it opens a high scoring shooting lane.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The PP breakout seems to be a thing all teams are doing now, idea being to have the opponents back off because of the speed, each team does it with some degree of variation, and you see it broken up by lining up 3 along the blue and one guy in the slot, etc, the reason why teams use it, is if it's gonna back the other team up, which it does, the idea is not to carry it in especially if there's a logjam on the blueline, but to chip it and get it in, then get it back to the point and set up, for that, you need 2 guys with speed going in, the guy chipping it and another, you have F4 and F5 hanging up by the blue to deflect it in if needed, but to keep the opposing team honest and back them up....

If you want to forecheck with one guy sitting still, be my guest, teams will eat that alive. There really are no scripted breakouts, you have one or two, that are scripted when teams change and the D is just hanging back, other than that, it's all about reading and reacting.

I get that, the idea is sound and well aware most teams do it. Yet, we try to force-carry it in, or we have no one actually charging with speed. We do have the Forwards at the blueline for the redirect in but they're rarely used and when they are no one is prepared to retrieve. The play that DOES work more often for us is the quick pass to the right wing boards with speed.

I'm also willing to admit that some of this is the players not executing properly as well, but the coaching is not adjusting either, and the way ours is designed puts us at a constant disadvantage unless Kopitar is out there which is the common theme in making Stevens look competent: Kopitar can do everything. No one else can. Adjust.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I get that, the idea is sound and well aware most teams do it. Yet, we try to force-carry it in, or we have no one actually charging with speed. We do have the Forwards at the blueline for the redirect in but they're rarely used and when they are no one is prepared to retrieve. The play that DOES work more often for us is the quick pass to the right wing boards with speed.

I'm also willing to admit that some of this is the players not executing properly as well, but the coaching is not adjusting either, and the way ours is designed puts us at a constant disadvantage unless Kopitar is out there which is the common theme in making Stevens look competent: Kopitar can do everything. No one else can. Adjust.

I was just going to say that, so if the idea is sound, sound enough that EVERY other team is doing some variation of it, how much of that is on coaching vs execution?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

And all they'd have to do to get it open is to rover around a bit and draw out the PK, passing lanes open. I'm not saying the forwards have To be stagnant. If they rover around in that vicinity like most successful pks do it, it opens a high scoring shooting lane.

Find some videos of what you are talking about, because what I am picturing you talking about is surely not what you are picturing yourself talking about, best way to fix that is for you to find something of what you are talking about.

 

[KINGS17]

The Kings players are not good at producing offense. Kempe hasn't scored a goal in 30-something games. Pearson might as well be on a milk carton. Toffoli? Well, he is off to a nice start, but if he isn't scoring, he isn't doing anything else so it's a good thing he has 3 points in the first two games. We have seen this before though, so let's see some consistency.

I have immense respect for Jeff Carter and am hoping he gets on the score sheet soon.

 

[regulate]

I'm not saying I'd make a better coach than Stevens but I sure as hell would run a power play better than Stevens. That's for damn sure. The guy is lost on the PP. The High umbrella for the talent the Kings have is so infuriating.

Nachbaur is the power play coach. Needs to take some of the heat if things don't turn around. Lowry is the PK coach. Needs some of the credit for the #1 PK last season.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

The Kings players are not good at producing offense. Kempe hasn't scored a goal in 30-something games. Pearson might as well be on a milk carton. Toffoli? Well, he is off to a nice start, but if he isn't scoring, he isn't doing anything else so it's a good thing he has 3 points in the first two games. We have seen this before though, so let's see some consistency.

I have immense respect for Jeff Carter and am hoping he gets on the score sheet soon.

Carter didn't look very good last night from what I can recall....