Glove Pass Rule

[andora]

It hits kellers skate

 

[123offtheglass]

Honestly, the rule is fine. The right answer is to just remove the video reviews, as they provide almost nothing positive. Sure, 1/1000 times the review fixes something obvious, but it's not worth it as most reviews just end up being over the tiniest hair splitting that makes no difference to the actual play, and completely ruin the flow and excitement of the game.

Imagine a league that takes something exciting like a game tying goal in the last couple minutes and turns it into a 5 minute stand around fest to decide the ending of the game.

Personally I'm for it. Seen to many series & games come down to missed stoppages, like a player completely offside where the linesmen were just stunned. It does suck sometimes but I'd rather them make the right call more often than not; in a game with so much parity there's really little room for error.

Just think they need to modify it, but not sure how.

 

[Community]

Personally I'm for it. Seen to many series & games come down to missed stoppages, like a player completely offside where the linesmen were just stunned. It does suck sometimes but I'd rather them make the right call more often than not; in a game with so much parity there's really little room for error.

Just think they need to modify it, but not sure how.

Honestly, the best compromise is probably a time clock for decisions...

If you can't tell within a minute of looking at it, it shouldn't be changed from the on-ice call.

However, I've started to move towards removing it or reducing what can be challenged/overturned. I hate that most of the time I see a big goal I'm not convinced it will stand until the puck drops again or the officials leave the ice... Took all the excitement out of the game last night waiting for so long to make a call.

Edit: To those saying the call wasn't the problem last night, we all know the Leafs played poorly for the middle ~40 minutes and put themselves in a bad position when they should've won easily... Doesn't mean the call wasn't a bad one.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

@wingman75

Here's where I'm confused...

Here is the rule the situation room cited: "A player may bat a puck in the air with an open hand unless in the opinion of the on-ice officials he has directed the puck to a teammate... blah blah blah".

Ok. The on-ice officials didn't call anything. In fact, the ref states CLEAR AS DAY (maybe as a semi-criticism of the ruling?) that it was the situation room that determined there was a glove pass.

So what the f***. They're just literally ignoring the rule book?

Must have been a slow night for da American staff working in Toronto's NHL control room .. neither ref, linesmen or either team's coach called for a review .. so somehow da hand of god someone from situation room calls down to guy working game sheet to say it was a hand pass and should have been blown dead .. wow .. and it is not an OBVIOUS hand pass at all .. Mitch is behind Rielly and Rielly has his glove up trying to keep puck moving forward not backward .. it only goes backward because it hits Keller skate and deflects back to Mitch .. completely BIZARRE ruling that was a pass

 

[Mess]

When Are Hand Passes Illegal In Laymans Terms​

Okay now that we’ve gone through the rulebook on hand passes let’s break this term down in a way we can understand. When looking to determine when hand pass is legal there are three main factors you want to take into account.

Number one did the hand pass direct the puck towards a teammate, two how long did the player hold onto the puck and three where on the ice did the hand pass occur.

Passing To A Teammate

The most common reason a hand pass is going to be called is when the puck is passed from one teammate to another.

As you can see from the rulebook it is completely legal to bat, push and stop a puck with an open hand. But if any of these actions are down to move the puck to a teammate an illegal hand pass is going to be called.

Even if a hand pass is simply pushed into open ice resulting in a teammate skating in and picking up the puck this will still be considered a hand pass. The reason for this is because the rule states that moving the puck with your hand can not give your team an advantage.

Even if a player were to unintentionally hand pass to a teammate it would be called so long as it gave the hand passing team possession or an advantage.

Additionally, hand passes are going to be called if a player passes to a teammate indirectly or directly. This means if a player hits the puck with his hand his teammate cannot gain possession even if the puck is deflected off an opposing teams player.

The easiest way to remember the hand pass rule is to think of it in terms of benefiting your team. If a player on your team hits the puck with his hand and it positively affects your team it will almost always be called.

In other words, the hand pass rules are put in place to ensure a team does not reap benefits from hitting the puck with their hand. The only real way to effectively use your hand is to bat the puck away to buy time or to bat the puck towards yourself.

Account Suspended

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Must have been a slow night for da American staff working in Toronto's NHL control room .. neither ref, linesmen or either team's coach called for a review .. so somehow da hand of god someone from situation room calls down to guy working game sheet to say it was a hand pass and should have been blown dead .. wow .. and it is not an OBVIOUS hand pass at all .. Mitch is behind Rielly and Rielly has his glove up trying to keep puck moving forward not backward .. it only goes backward because it hits Keller skate and deflects back to Mitch .. completely BIZARRE ruling that was a pass

When ruling comes out i think you are gonna hear that there was no hand pass at all .. it was ruled to be a high stick where Keller hit puck with high stick and then was 1st Zona guy to touch puck therefore a clear high stick play stoppage should have occurred

 

[The Iceman]

@wingman75

Here's where I'm confused...

Here is the rule the situation room cited: "A player may bat a puck in the air with an open hand unless in the opinion of the on-ice officials he has directed the puck to a teammate... blah blah blah".

Ok. The on-ice officials didn't call anything. In fact, the ref states CLEAR AS DAY (maybe as a semi-criticism of the ruling?) that it was the situation room that determined there was a glove pass.

So what the f***. They're just literally ignoring the rule book?

You are 100% correct.
In no way was it a glove pass.

Did the puck touch Reilly's glove...YES
Did he direct it to a team mate with his glove...NO

 

[notDatsyuk]

I don’t see how they call that.
1. Rielly is clearly about to glove it down to his own stick.
2. The intent to direct it to a teammate isn’t present.
3. The defender’s stick arrives before the puck, and impedes Rielly’s willful actions.

It’s a stray puck deflection off the glove, and a bull*^%# call.

Intent is irrelevant. If you knock the puck down with your hand and a teammate touches it next, it's a hand pass.

 

[notDatsyuk]

But you're allowed to pass the puck by a kicking motion to a player who scores, a goalie can purposely redirect the puck with his blocking pad which may result in a goal. What's the difference?

And a goalie is allowed to hold the puck in his glove! Even right in the crease! How unfair is that?

 

[notDatsyuk]

I did not even know they could review hand passes wtf

For the last few years they have reviewed all goals, not for penalties, but for things that should have caused a stoppage in play, such as a high stick, puck into the netting, and a hand pass.

The gloved puck clearly goes off the Arizona's players skate.

Wouldn't that negate the glove puck?
Just like a delayed high sticking the puck, if the other team touches it game on.

I thought it looked like it hit the skate too, but I didn't see anything clear enough in any of the replays. Also, it may not have been enough for 'possession', if that's relevant.

 

[Mess]

@wingman75

Here's where I'm confused...

Here is the rule the situation room cited: "A player may bat a puck in the air with an open hand unless in the opinion of the on-ice officials he has directed the puck to a teammate... blah blah blah".

Ok. The on-ice officials didn't call anything. In fact, the ref states CLEAR AS DAY (maybe as a semi-criticism of the ruling?) that it was the situation room that determined there was a glove pass.

So what the f***. They're just literally ignoring the rule book?

Rules have changed ..

Approved Rule Changes for the 2019-20 NHL Season - Coach's Challenge, Video Review among rule changes for 2019-20​

Are all goals reviewed in the NHL?

Every goal shall be reviewed by the NHL Situation Room. If there is a need to delay the resumption of the play following an apparent goal, the Off-Ice Official at ice level will be alerted to signal one of the Referees to delay the center-ice face-off for a moment.

Approved Rule Changes for the 2019-20 NHL Season​

Rule 37 – Video Review (Pages 62-65)

37.1 – NHL Situation Room/Video Goal Judge

The NHL will staff a centralized Situation Room with experienced Hockey Operations professionals to watch all games (Regular Season and Playoffs) and to work in conjunction with the On- and Off-Ice Officials in every arena in reviewing all goals and disputed and controversial plays and rendering decisions in accordance with the specific parameters set forth herein.

The NHL will designate an Off-Ice Official to serve in the role of Video Goal Judge in every arena for every game (Regular Season and Playoffs). The Video Goal Judge will be located in a secluded area in the upper level of the building with an unobstructed view of both goals. The location must be large enough to seat four (4) people (Video Goal Judge, Video Technician, Supervisor of Officials and NHL Hockey Operations representative) and must have space for necessary monitors, replay and recording equipment.

The NHL Situation Room and the Video Goal Judge shall both have access to all replays that may be available from all available broadcasts of the game. Both the NHL Situation Room and the Video Goal Judge shall also be equipped with state-of-the-art communications systems that will allow direct and immediate access to the Off-Ice Official(s) at the penalty bench and the On-Ice Official(s).


37.2 – Goal Review Procedures

Every goal shall be reviewed by the NHL Situation Room. If there is a need to delay the resumption of the play following an apparent goal, the Off-Ice Official at ice level will be alerted to signal one of the Referees to delay the center-ice face-off for a moment. Once the NHL Situation Room has reviewed the video and confirmed that the goal is valid, the Off-Ice Official at ice level should signal to the Referee to resume play.

If an expanded review is required on any potential goal, the Situation Room shall instruct that the in-arena horn be sounded and the Public Address Announcer will make an announcement that the “play is under review.” Once the play has been reviewed and deemed a goal, the goal will be announced in the normal manner. If the review reveals that the goal should be disallowed, the Referee shall announce the reason for the disallowed goal.

When the NHL Situation Room observes an incident involving a potential goal that was undetected by the On-Ice Officials, the Off-Ice Official will contact the Referee at the first stoppage of play and inform him that a review of the play is in progress. The Public Address Announcer will make an announcement that “the play is under review.” If the review reveals that the goal should be counted, the clock (including penalty time clocks, if applicable) shall be re-set to the time the goal was scored. If the review reveals that no goal was scored, no adjustment to the time clock(s) will be made.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

When Are Hand Passes Illegal In Laymans Terms​

Okay now that we’ve gone through the rulebook on hand passes let’s break this term down in a way we can understand. When looking to determine when hand pass is legal there are three main factors you want to take into account.

Number one did the hand pass direct the puck towards a teammate, two how long did the player hold onto the puck and three where on the ice did the hand pass occur.

Passing To A Teammate

The most common reason a hand pass is going to be called is when the puck is passed from one teammate to another.

As you can see from the rulebook it is completely legal to bat, push and stop a puck with an open hand. But if any of these actions are down to move the puck to a teammate an illegal hand pass is going to be called.

Even if a hand pass is simply pushed into open ice resulting in a teammate skating in and picking up the puck this will still be considered a hand pass. The reason for this is because the rule states that moving the puck with your hand can not give your team an advantage.

Even if a player were to unintentionally hand pass to a teammate it would be called so long as it gave the hand passing team possession or an advantage.

Additionally, hand passes are going to be called if a player passes to a teammate indirectly or directly. This means if a player hits the puck with his hand his teammate cannot gain possession even if the puck is deflected off an opposing teams player.

The easiest way to remember the hand pass rule is to think of it in terms of benefiting your team. If a player on your team hits the puck with his hand and it positively affects your team it will almost always be called.

In other words, the hand pass rules are put in place to ensure a team does not reap benefits from hitting the puck with their hand. The only real way to effectively use your hand is to bat the puck away to buy time or to bat the puck towards yourself.

Account Suspended

But my question is about the careful wording of the rule that doesn't apply to almost any other rule. If you look at offsides, high-sticking, etc. it just says the rule. The end. The refs, and (if need be) the situation room can interpret the rule.

But for hand-passes out of the air, it specifically states that it's based on the "opinion of the on ice officials". This is rare wording. Doesn't that mean the war room is supposed to just defer to what the refs called? This rule (quite rarely) goes out of its way to say it's the call of the on ice officials. Because, again, for offsides/high sticking/etc. the rule does not specifically state that it's directly just the opinion of the on ice officials. Did the war room overstep its power? Even the ref reading out the decision specifically states that it was the situation room, not the refs, who made the decision. It looked to me like the ref was possibly angry at the war room overstepping.

 

[Mess]

But my question is about the careful wording of the rule that doesn't apply to almost any other rule. If you look at offsides, high-sticking, etc. it just says the rule. The end. The refs, and (if need be) the situation room can interpret the rule.

But for hand-passes out of the air, it specifically states that it's based on the "opinion of the on ice officials". This is rare wording. Doesn't that mean the war room is supposed to just defer to what the refs called? This rule (quite rarely) goes out of its way to say it's the call of the on ice officials. Because, again, for offsides/high sticking/etc. the rule does not specifically state that it's directly just the opinion of the on ice officials. Did the war room overstep its power? Even the ref reading out the decision specifically states that it was the situation room, not the refs, who made the decision. It looked to me like the ref was possibly angry at the war room overstepping.

From the updated Video review rules it seems to suggest the Off-ice officials Supersede the opinion of the On-ice officials on missed calls :

Every goal shall be reviewed by the NHL Situation Room.

When the NHL Situation Room observes an incident involving a potential goal that was undetected by the On-Ice Officials, the Off-Ice Official will contact the Referee at the first stoppage of play and inform him that a review of the play is in progress. The Public Address Announcer will make an announcement that “the play is under review.” If the review reveals that the goal should be counted, the clock (including penalty time clocks, if applicable) shall be re-set to the time the goal was scored. If the review reveals that no goal was scored, no adjustment to the time clock(s) will be made.

https://media.nhl.com/public/news/13452

Is This Call Reviewable?​

Yes, throughout the many NHL seasons in which the hand pass rules have been in place several game-changing goals featured potential missed calls regarding hand passes.

Due to these missed calls, the NHL began reviewing hand pass goals in the 2020 NHL season. A hand pass cannot be reviewed in terms of calling a penalty but it can be part of the review process when determining whether a goal was legal or not.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

S

From the updated Video review rules it seems to suggest the Off-ice officials Supersede the opinion of the On-ice officials on missed calls :

Every goal shall be reviewed by the NHL Situation Room.

When the NHL Situation Room observes an incident involving a potential goal that was undetected by the On-Ice Officials, the Off-Ice Official will contact the Referee at the first stoppage of play and inform him that a review of the play is in progress. The Public Address Announcer will make an announcement that “the play is under review.” If the review reveals that the goal should be counted, the clock (including penalty time clocks, if applicable) shall be re-set to the time the goal was scored. If the review reveals that no goal was scored, no adjustment to the time clock(s) will be made.

https://media.nhl.com/public/news/13452

Is This Call Reviewable?​

Yes, throughout the many NHL seasons in which the hand pass rules have been in place several game-changing goals featured potential missed calls regarding hand passes.

Due to these missed calls, the NHL began reviewing hand pass goals in the 2020 NHL season. A hand pass cannot be reviewed in terms of calling a penalty but it can be part of the review process when determining whether a goal was legal or not.

So why does this rule in particular (hitting the puck out of the air) specifically state that it's of the opinion of on ice officials, but other rules don't don't state that? Isn't that written for a reason? Why would they specifically write that about THIS rule, not other rules, if it doesn't mean anything?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

 

[Mess]

So why does this rule in particular (hitting the puck out of the air) specifically state that it's of the opinion of on ice officials, but other rules don't don't state that? Isn't that written for a reason? Why would they specifically write that about THIS rule, not other rules, if it doesn't mean anything?

You might be missing the point where it results in a goal as all those are reviewed.

There are actually legal hand passes in the NHL at the discretion of the Ref .. You can hand pass legally in your own Dzone to a teammate. You can glove a pass down and if the other team gains possession & its play on and legal. Its only when the hand pass occurs in the offensive zone either intentional or unintentional that leads to an advantage, and eventually a goal that is "under review" if the On-ice official missed it in real time.

Remember the NHL rule book has been in place for decades, but video review was put in place the last few years because of plays like hand passes that went undetected and resulted in goals, that should not have counted.

The intent of video review is to make sure the right call is made, and not a missed call allowed to determine the outcome of a game. More accuracy in allowed goals is a good thing. Leafs getting caught is likely not.

 

[blue stick]

I get the hand pass rule thing, but all throughout this early season refs have been calling penalties when a stick merely comes in contact with an opposing players glove. In this situation you have a Coyotes player's stick contacting a Leaf's players glove and add to that the glove is clearly above his shoulder. Very confusing?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

You might be missing the point where it results in a goal as all those are reviewed.

There are actually legal hand passes in the NHL at the discretion of the Ref .. You can hand pass legally in your own Dzone to a teammate. You can glove a pass down and if the other team gains possession & its play on and legal. Its only when the hand pass occurs in the offensive zone either intentional or unintentional that leads to an advantage, and eventually a goal that is "under review" if the On-ice official missed it in real time.

Remember the NHL rule book has been in place for decades, but video review was put in place the last few years because of plays like hand passes that went undetected and resulted in goals, that should not have counted.

The intent of video review is to make sure the right call is made, and not a missed call allowed to determine the outcome of a game. More accuracy in allowed goals is a good thing. Leafs getting caught is likely not.

No, I still don't get it.

The war room is there to enforce rules. Not alter them or make them up.

If they look at the offside rules, nowhere does it stipulate that it's based entirely on the on ice officials opinion. They would look at the rule. Nowhere does it mention on ice officials. They would see it was offside. They would make their decision.

But for hand passes from the air, they still have to follow the rule. And this rule (unlike almost any other) specifically states that it's based on the on ice officials opinion. They would read the rule and say "the on ice officials already allowed the play", and that should be that. You know, they should follow what the rule says. I think they just messed up. A lot of people on twitter are saying the same thing.

I think we're just at an impasse. By following the rule, the war room should have deferred to the on ice officials. That's what the rule says. Most other rules don't say that. If they want to change that rule in the future, then that's fine. But as of now, the war room has to actually follow the rules.

 

[Twine Tickler]

I was under the impression that the instant the gloved down pass hit the opponent, whether intentional or not, it was a live play. Which is exactly why you see opponents refuse to even touch the puck after the other team knocks a puck down with a high stick, because the instant they touch that puck it is a live puck. So how can someone have clear possession in that case if at the very second the touches the puck to negate the high stick/glove pass someone can make a play on the puck?? the only difference here was it hit Kellers skate blade and not his tape.

The funny thing is, I am not entirely sure ARZ would have even challenged that goal if it were not for the situation room challenging it for them being under a minute.

Not even mentioning the fact that it was clearly a simultaneous touching of the puck between Mo's glove and Keller's stick. I just don't know how you could overturn that call on the ice with the lack of supporting evidence.

But I will say, if we remove the simultaneous touching of the puck between Mo and Keller, I think I can understand the "lack of clear possession" thereafter. Which to me makes it easier to understand the overturning of the call. I still don't agree with the overturning of it. Especially when you consider this was called a goal.....

 

[WTFMAN99]

It was stupid but I don't care because if they showed up for more than 10 minutes last night, it's not a conversation today .

Don't get distracted.

 

[Lightsol]

Show up for 60 minutes and theses rules will have no impact.

I'm going to ask the same question I asked last year when I see this response; how come the Leafs are the only team in the NHL who HAVE to show up for 60 minutes or the win is somehow not legit? What did Arizona play in this game, 5 minutes?

 

[ACC1224]

I'm going to ask the same question I asked last year when I see this response; how come the Leafs are the only team in the NHL who HAVE to show up for 60 minutes or the win is somehow not legit? What did Arizona play in this game, 5 minutes?

They didn't win, they lost.
I don't care about other teams including Arizona's effort.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

 

[JT AM da real deal]

We don't know for sure whether puck hit Keller's stick or Rielly's glove or both .. we know it hit something as it changed directions .. then we know it hit Keller's skate as it changed directions again towards Mitch .. we know all officials on ice did not rule a hand pass or a high stick .. maybe control room has another camera which shows something different .. but to ASSUME it was a pass is ridiculous .. all anyone can ASSUME is Rielly was trying to stop puck from leaving Coyotes end .. this entire issue is people making ASSUMPTIONS and over ruling call on da ice .. completely ridiculous .. if someone saw a definitely high stick and then touch by Keller I may not like call but I could understand it

 

[Stonehands 1]

this is my 2 cents, number one is it still considered a hand pass when you have an opposing stick in it, i think that once you have you have a stick in the glove it should negate the glove pass

And as well, when have you gotten a call from the situation room ever overruling the refs