Friedman: Gibson is interested in Carolina or Edmonton

[Unsustainable]

What would Anaheim want Zegras + Gibson to Carolina at the Deadline?

 

[FiveTacos]

They tied up more for the same amount of time in the Fowler deal for a 2nd in 3 years and nothing prospect,

Fowler's deal expires a year sooner. And they had 3 young LHD who need to play. It's not just the money retained, it's also the retention slot that gets locked up for an additional year.

I’m sure you’ll try to say the Fowler trade is tied to the Trouba trade but Fowler was dealt after Trouba

Report was they offered Fowler for Trouba. They accomplished the same goal with a subsequent trade. So yeah, they were tied together. If they'd successfully signed a RHD before the season as they reportedly wanted, they don't trade for Trouba and Fowler is probably gone before the season even starts. They are tied together, whether you want it to be true or not.

and as you pointed out they have plenty of cap space so not like they were forced to give Fowler away retained to fit in Trouba. So what’s the though process?

Until they trade Dumoulin, a young D is already sitting every night. With Fowler, it was gonna be two, plus someone was having to play their off side.

Gibson OTOH is allowing the Ducks to not have to overwork either goalie. Unlike in EA hockey you can't just play one goalie 82 times. At most he might be costing Dostal what, 10-12 starts? That's a lot different than having to scratch two of their young D every night.

They traded away a 6.5M top 4 dman and retained 2.5M so they could replace him with an overpaid 8M top 4 dman and turn it into a 10.5M cap hit?

Trouba has been a better fit for them. The things Fowler offers as his strengths (puck moving, leading transitions, PP, OZ starts, etc) are things their young guys are being given a chance to do. The things Trouba does (shot blocking, physicality, etc.) are not things they're as good at. Handedness has helped too, Lacombe really struggled playing off side last year with Fowler, this year he looks like a top pairing D.

Also note Trouba's actual salary is lower than his cap hit. And the cap hit helps them ... they now gained 4m to keep up with the cap floor while only having to spend 2m more in real dollars. In theory they can be cap compliant next year while spending under it.

 

[tomd]

What would Anaheim want Zegras + Gibson to Carolina at the Deadline?

That's a tough one. I think the price for Gibson is more or less set but I have no idea about Zegras...he would probably require a return of a roster player that Carolina may not want to part with. They can't both go for futures though...that much is pretty certain.

 

[MessierThanThou]

Fowler (LHD) was dealt for one main reason, the same as to why Trouba (RHD) was brought in...they had an absolute logjam of NHL ready, good LHD, and very little on the right side. To the point where some were made to play on their offside and there was a regularly rotating schedule of healthy scratches (they couldn't be sent down without going through waivers which none of them would clear). Trouba brought the vet presence to a position they were very weak at.

Fowler knew he wasn't the future, was playing like it, & was more than willing to move on (to the point of wanting out nine games short of his 1k with the team). Especially with Trouba taking up another D slot he needed to go fairly quickly. Toss in Fowler's 28 team no trade list & PV pretty much had to take any offer that came along if it wasn't from one of the 4 teams & hope that Cam would waive for them. The return wasn't the point, clearing a D slot was. Retention was just a cost that needed to be paid.

Zero in common with Gibson's situation. If they trade him they'll need to get a relatively decent backup for Dostal (who isn't ready to shoulder a 1A role...which Gibson still has), one that will probably cost $3-4 million/year. If Gibson get traded at 50% retention (3.2 million) that means that the backup, probably/most assuredly lesser quality than Gibson, costs the Ducks $6.2-7.2 million with the retention amount factored in. Orrr they can just keep him at $6.4...

Plus Dostal needs a new contract. If he sees that his backup is effectively getting paid that much, what's he going to demand and probably get? Gibson stays for another year & they can probably bridge him at a reasonable to both sides amount & then really get paid in a year or two when he's the true 1A.

Fowler's deal expires a year sooner. And they had 3 young LHD who need to play. It's not just the money retained, it's also the retention slot that gets locked up for an additional year.



Report was they offered Fowler for Trouba. They accomplished the same goal with a subsequent trade. So yeah, they were tied together. If they'd successfully signed a RHD before the season as they reportedly wanted, they don't trade for Trouba and Fowler is probably gone before the season even starts. They are tied together, whether you want it to be true or not.



Until they trade Dumoulin, a young D is already sitting every night. With Fowler, it was gonna be two, plus someone was having to play their off side.

Gibson OTOH is allowing the Ducks to not have to overwork either goalie. Unlike in EA hockey you can't just play one goalie 82 times. At most he might be costing Dostal what, 10-12 starts? That's a lot different than having to scratch two of their young D every night.



Trouba has been a better fit for them. The things Fowler offers as his strengths (puck moving, leading transitions, PP, OZ starts, etc) are things their young guys are being given a chance to do. The things Trouba does (shot blocking, physicality, etc.) are not things they're as good at. Handedness has helped too, Lacombe really struggled playing off side last year with Fowler, this year he looks like a top pairing D.

Also note Trouba's actual salary is lower than his cap hit. And the cap hit helps them ... they now gained 4m to keep up with the cap floor while only having to spend 2m more in real dollars. In theory they can be cap compliant next year while spending under it.

I wish more of the Oilers fandom were as educated about their own team as you guys are about your own. Great analysis...and dissections.

 

[Ducks DVM]

I feel like nobody actually listened to the podcast. Friedman said that he heard EARLIER this season that Gibson “preferred” (not wanted) Carolina or Edmonton, because he wanted to be the clear cut #1. Friedman went on to say that he felt Gibson might well be less high on going to Edmonton NOW because that might not be the case with Skinner there.

The thrust of the podcast was absolutely not that Gibson was busting the doors down and demanding a trade to Edmonton, so the Ducks needed to deal with it, in fact he was suggesting he felt he may not have much interest in going there at this point.

32 Thoughts: The Podcast

Hockey fans already know the name, but this is not the blog. From Sportsnet, 32 Thoughts: The Podcast with NHL Insider Elliotte Friedman & Kyle Bukauskas is a weekly deep dive into the biggest news and interviews from the hockey world.

www.sportsnet.ca

Starts at about 41:30

 

[Soundwave]

I feel like nobody actually listened to the podcast. Friedman said that he heard EARLIER this season that Gibson “preferred” (not wanted) Carolina or Edmonton, because he wanted to be the clear cut #1. Friedman went on to say that he felt Gibson might well be less high on going to Edmonton NOW because that might not be the case with Skinner there.

The thrust of the podcast was absolutely not that Gibson was busting the doors down and demanding a trade to Edmonton, so the Ducks needed to deal with it, in fact he was suggesting he felt he may not have much interest in going there at this point.

32 Thoughts: The Podcast

Hockey fans already know the name, but this is not the blog. From Sportsnet, 32 Thoughts: The Podcast with NHL Insider Elliotte Friedman & Kyle Bukauskas is a weekly deep dive into the biggest news and interviews from the hockey world.

www.sportsnet.ca

Starts at about 41:30

Doesn't really make sense though, Skinner if anything had more standing as "the guy" at the start of the season coming off a Cup Final. Now that he's had some wishy washy stretches while Gibson has had a good season, it would mean the odds of Gibson becoming the defacto starter in Edmonton are higher now than back in say September/October.

I suspect the other reason Gibson likes Edmonton is because a lot of former teammates are there. Corey Perry, Adam Henrique, John Klingberg have all played with Gibson.

 

[FiveTacos]

Plus Dostal needs a new contract. If he sees that his backup is effectively getting paid that much, what's he going to demand and probably get?

Or even if he sees that there's no other viable starter behind him, he can pretty much have the team over a barrel in negotiations. What are you gonna do then, pay him whatever he asks, or go into the season with two replacement level goalies? And what happens if you sign him and it turns out he can't actually handle full time sole #1 duties without his play suffering?

There's also this crazy scenario ... you keep Gibson, and he continues his great season, but Dostal asks for crazy money. So you just deal Dostal for a big haul instead. If you get enough back, it's not the craziest option, albeit it might not be your first option, but at least you HAVE that option.

I suspect the other reason Gibson likes Edmonton is because a lot of former teammates are there. Corey Perry, Adam Henrique, John Klingberg have all played with Gibson.

Here we are all getting along fine, and you had to bring Klingberg into this? I'll cut ya man, I'll cut ya!

 

[tomd]

Or even if he sees that there's no other viable starter behind him, he can pretty much have the team over a barrel in negotiations. What are you gonna do then, pay him whatever he asks, or go into the season with two replacement level goalies? And what happens if you sign him and it turns out he can't actually handle full time sole #1 duties without his play suffering?

There's also this crazy scenario ... you keep Gibson, and he continues his great season, but Dostal asks for crazy money. So you just deal Dostal for a big haul instead. If you get enough back, it's not the craziest option, albeit it might not be your first option, but at least you HAVE that option.



Here we are all getting along fine, and you had to bring Klingberg into this? I'll cut ya man, I'll cut ya!

Dostal will most likely sign a bridge deal. If I were to speculate...2 years at 3 million AAV.

 

[FiveTacos]

Dostal will most likely sign a bridge deal. If I were to speculate...2 years at 3 million AAV.

I dunno, there's some pretty meh goalies who signed deals for about that, plus the cap is rising. I think he'll get a good deal more.

 

[tomd]

I dunno, there's some pretty meh goalies who signed deals for about that, plus the cap is rising. I think he'll get a good deal more.

He might but as a RFA there is only so far he can push the envelope. More years but less AAV or less year but more AAV. Whatever he gets the team will have the cap to absorb it pretty easily.

 

[Fatass]

Would the Canes actually want Skinner?

 

[Ninety7]

Just want to say that 31 is far from geriatric for a goalie. The top goalie and this year's likely Vezina winner, Connor Hellebuyck, is 31.
Edmonton would be so lucky to have Gibson as their #1 net minder.

Yeah I don’t think the two goalies are comparable at all.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Yeah I don’t think the two goalies are comparable at all.

No one is comparing them outside of age

 

[MessierThanThou]

Would the Canes actually want Skinner?

Maybe if their top three organizational goalies get hurt at the same time and he hits the waiver wire (like fellow Dustin Schwartz protégé Jarry)?

 

[Rec T]

Doesn't really make sense though, Skinner if anything had more standing as "the guy" at the start of the season coming off a Cup Final. Now that he's had some wishy washy stretches while Gibson has had a good season, it would mean the odds of Gibson becoming the defacto starter in Edmonton are higher now than back in say September/October.

I suspect the other reason Gibson likes Edmonton is because a lot of former teammates are there. Corey Perry, Adam Henrique, John Klingberg have all played with Gibson.

Gibson is still 'the' starter in Anaheim

Probably knows more of the players there too...

 

[quackquackquack]

He might but as a RFA there is only so far he can push the envelope. More years but less AAV or less year but more AAV. Whatever he gets the team will have the cap to absorb it pretty easily.

I don't think Anaheim wants to mess around with Dostal. They will lock him up long term. The goalie pipeline sucks and Gibson will be 32 next season with a tons of miles on him.

 

[Crazy8oooo]

If he’s traded I think it’ll be something like Gibson 30% retained for a mid 2nd + a mid prospect or a 4th.

This is why many Ducks fans say no to the Gibson proposals. Retaining for that length of time just to get back a blah prospect and a late 2nd isn’t worth being tied to that retention spot for all that time. He provides them with more value than a second and having a retention slot tied down for all that time.

Then, on top of that, they still have to pay a backup goalie which will essentially cost them his salary plus the salary retained on Gibson.

In the end, why downgrade at the goalie position, tie up a retention slot for multiple years, and give Dostal the upper hand in his extension negotiations, all for a return of a late 2nd and nothing prospect? Doesn’t make much sense for the Ducks. Perhaps, Verbeek will feel differently.

 

[tomd]

I don't think Anaheim wants to mess around with Dostal. They will lock him up long term. The goalie pipeline sucks and Gibson will be 32 next season with a tons of miles on him.

Very possible but Dostal has a say in that as well. Note that even if he signs a 2-3 year bridge deal I believe he'll still be under team control (i.e. RFA status) at the end of the contract. So they really are a long ways away from losing him unless they completely screw up which I doubt.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

I was hoping that this thread would die, but since it hasn't:

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WILL A MOD REMOVE THE COMMA FROM THE TITLE?

 

[Crazy8oooo]

I was hoping that this thread would die, but since it hasn't:

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WILL A MOD REMOVE THE COMMA FROM THE TITLE?

Maybe they’re wanting you to pause extra long and take in the thought of him going to Carolina before moving that thought process on to Edmonton.

 

[Rubi]

Yeah I don’t think the two goalies are comparable at all.

Yeah... that's not exactly what I was referring to but if you're not happy with the 31 year old Hellebuyck comparison here's a few more that are 30 and older..

Vasilevskyi
Kuemper
Ullmark
Markstrom
and last year's Stanley Cup winner, 36 year old Sergei Bobrovsky

All top NHL goalies. At 31 a goalie is still in his prime.

 

[MessierThanThou]

Yeah... that's not exactly what I was referring to but if you're not happy with the 31 year old Hellebuyck comparison here's a few more that are 30 and older..

Vasilevskyi
Kuemper
Ullmark
Markstrom
and last year's Stanley Cup winner, 36 year old Sergei Bobrovsky

All top NHL goalies. At 31 a goalie is still in his prime.

Totally not related to the guy you're directly responding to, of course but I wonder if some of these Oiler fan accounts are actually troll accounts by Calgary fans.... Just so many comical responses.

And hey, maybe Skinner will actually be a great goalie by the time he's Gibson's age...

 

[Ducks DVM]

I was hoping that this thread would die, but since it hasn't:

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WILL A MOD REMOVE THE COMMA FROM THE TITLE?

Gotta be honest, I debated removing the comma, then putting a comma after every other word.

 

[Rec T]

I wonder if some of these Oiler fan accounts are actually troll accounts by Calgary fans....

Hmmm, that actually makes some sense. Payback for not being able to win for what, 15 years at the Pond?

I really wanted that streak to go on for another 3-4 years. Can you imagine the motivational speech before a game by the Flames' coach ... "Look, some of you weren't even born the last time we won here...for the love of everything holy...get out there & kick some butt..."

 

[Ninety7]

Yeah... that's not exactly what I was referring to but if you're not happy with the 31 year old Hellebuyck comparison here's a few more that are 30 and older..

Vasilevskyi
Kuemper
Ullmark
Markstrom
and last year's Stanley Cup winner, 36 year old Sergei Bobrovsky

All top NHL goalies. At 31 a goalie is still in his prime.

And what I’m saying is that not all goalies are built the same.

I don’t think John Gibson has been in that class for quite some time.

No one is comparing them outside of age

Yeah thanks,

Again, I don’t think John Gibson has aged like fine wine.

Totally not related to the guy you're directly responding to, of course but I wonder if some of these Oiler fan accounts are actually troll accounts by Calgary fans.... Just so many comical responses.

And hey, maybe Skinner will actually be a great goalie by the time he's Gibson's age...

Been here longer than you pal. My post has nothing to do with skinner. I don’t think he’s the answer, just like I don’t think Gibson is either.