Get Draisaitl and McDavid some help

[Turin]

The expectations of a winger are lower than a center but I suppose a causal might not understand that.

Make him RNHs winger then. Talbot played C duties for Malkin in 09 a bunch

 

[Oilking83]

My sarcasm metre is a little off with how many Canucks and Flames fans troll posts I've read the past week on the mains. My apologies haha.

All good dude yeah there a lot of trills there.

 

[Leafs87]

There help is coming. Both UFAs in 1-2 years

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I think he looked a bit slow still in game 2. Looked a lot better last night so I think he's over his injury. This isn't like the high ankle sprain he played through against Calgary 2 years ago when he could barely skate and was shown grimacing every 2nd shift.

I thought he was fine in game 2. The injury excuse is pretty lame when a player is playing 30 minutes and flying out there.

 

[Oilking83]

There help is coming. Both UFAs in 1-2 years

Neither are going to the loser leafs so your point?

 

[WestCoast CyberG]

Please do explain how my answer was lazy. You're trying to make a conclusion on "leadership" which is something you can't measure, and you have zero pulse on because you've never been in their dressing room. That's the laziest argument you can make.

If NHL players around them can't get up for playoff games that's not on them and it's hilarious to blame them for other guys shitting the bed when they bring it every single playoffs. You want to blame anyone blame the GMs they've had and the underperforming players on the team. I'll say it again it is LAZY to call out these two for "leadership issues".

Jesus Christ relax…..if year after year the team finds a way to lose in the playoffs and they keep changing out spare parts…you have to look at the leadership of the core.

See the Leafs.

I know it’s difficult but to understand but I wasn’t actually bashing the team or McDrai just pointing out something that is rather obvious to me.

Cheers.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Trade 29 for goaltending and D

 

[McFlyingV]

Not to take away anything from your points, but what the person you replied this to said was they have a leadership problem. Theres nothing lazy about what he said. Whether you agree or disagree on that point, leadership isn't just built on stats. They can run up the score all the time, but if they aren't a solution on the defensive side helping or sacrificing the body on shots etc, get 5 goals btwn them in a game wont mean shit if they let in 6.

Those little defensive efforts help, the hits, the blocks, the backchecks. When the team you captain sees you going through the wall for them, they'll do anything for you too.

Every team works differently, but look at what the leaders of almost every team that wins, the little things they do that sets off a domino effect in how their teammates get fired up. It's the same as when the fighters of yesterday would go out and try to fire up the troops.

My point being is without all the words, leadership isn't just about putting up pts.

It is a lazy argument because not you, not I, and not that poster have any pulse on what kind of leadership any player in the league provides.

Winners have guys throughout the lineup providing those efforts. When have you seen those efforts from the majority of the passengers in the Oiler's line up. Both these players have made numerous big defensive plays in the playoffs, but people would rather look at one mistake and try to claim that's how they always play and that in itself is another lazy argument people like to post on here. Commenting on leadership as if its fact is the biggest fallacy I see on here. You can have an opinion on it all you want but when you start presenting it as fact its laughable.

 

[Gurglesons]

It is a lazy argument because not you, not I, and not that poster have any pulse on what kind of leadership any player in the league provides.

Winners have guys throughout the lineup providing those efforts. When have you seen those efforts from the majority of the passengers in the Oiler's line up. Both these players have made numerous big defensive plays in the playoffs, but people would rather look at one mistake and try to claim that's how they always play and that in itself is another lazy argument people like to post on here. Commenting on leadership as if its fact is the biggest fallacy I see on here. You can have an opinion on it all you want but when you start presenting it as fact its laughable.

I just don't buy it this year.

At some point they just need to get over the hump.

Honestly, I think the Oilers crush the Canucks tomorrow and this whole conversation is stupid.

 

[McFlyingV]

Jesus Christ relax…..if year after year the team finds a way to lose in the playoffs and they keep changing out spare parts…you have to look at the leadership of the core.

See the Leafs.

I know it’s difficult but to understand but I wasn’t actually bashing the team or McDrai just pointing out something that is rather obvious to me.

Cheers.

This argument falls flat so many times when you watch a guy who is considered a "poor leader" go to a different team and win it all. See Jack Eichel who was crucified on this site.

Winning it all is one of the hardest thing to do and you can see teams who are considered "great leadership groups" win it once and then never come close again despite keeping that same leadership group together. The mythical idea of "leadership" is so overblown in hockey talk its become almost satirical when people bring it up.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

The expectations of a winger are lower than a center but I suppose a causal might not understand that.

He played 30 minutes and had two breakaways. He was flying.
I’m just tired of the lame excuses. The guy is no more injured than half the players playing right now.
Your insult at the end of your post doesn’t strengthen your weak argument.

 

[McFlyingV]

I thought he was fine in game 2. The injury excuse is pretty lame when a player is playing 30 minutes and flying out there.

I agree he didn't look bad in game 2, but I think they put him there because they didn't even know if he was going to play albeit most people expected he would given his history of toughing it out through injuries in the playoffs. He looked to have a lot more jump in game 3 and I think the team is better off with them apart despite just how dominant they were.

 

[Oilking83]

He played 30 minutes and had two breakaways. He was flying.
I’m just tired of the lame excuses. The guy is no more injured than half the players playing right now.

If he were healthy he’d be centering our second line but believe what you’d like dude.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I agree he didn't look bad in game 2, but I think they put him there because they didn't even know if he was going to play albeit most people expected he would given his history of toughing it out through injuries in the playoffs. He looked to have a lot more jump in game 3 and I think the team is better off with them apart despite just how dominant they were.

One point each is dominant?
I agree that they should be split up. It’s a much harder matchup. Right now the Miller line has played them to a draw.

 

[vcanuck]

Hyman scored 50, he can fetch a 2nd rounder and a decent prospect.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

If he were healthy he’d be centering our second line but believe what you’d like dude.

Your coach has two moves:
Break up McDrai.
Put them together.
There’s lots of times he’s played them together without injuries.

 

[McFlyingV]

If he were healthy he’d be centering our second line but believe what you’d like dude.

I think it's entirely possible that game 3 he may have been over the injury and they just kept them together after the results they got in game 2 from them. Wouldn't be surprised if they moved him back to his own line, but at the same time I don't think the coach would necessarily be unhappy with the way they played last game outside of the result. They heavily tilted the ice and scoring chances, but puck luck and goaltending had a pretty big impact on the outcome.

Your coach had two moves:
Break up McDrai.
Put them together.
There’s lots of times he’s played them together without injuries.

Knoblauch really hasn't done it much outside of after a PK he'll throw those two out with Hyman. Woody used to do it at the first sign of trouble.

And what exactly are you troll laughing in response to?

 

[rea]

It is a lazy argument because not you, not I, and not that poster have any pulse on what kind of leadership any player in the league provides.

Winners have guys throughout the lineup providing those efforts. When have you seen those efforts from the majority of the passengers in the Oiler's line up. Both these players have made numerous big defensive plays in the playoffs, but people would rather look at one mistake and try to claim that's how they always play and that in itself is another lazy argument people like to post on here. Commenting on leadership as if its fact is the biggest fallacy I see on here. You can have an opinion on it all you want but when you start presenting it as fact its laughable.

Well actually, there is tangible evidence when you see teammates speak of moments that come up during post game, when they speak of x player doing x thing and it had everyone believing. Tangible evidence when a play happens, the momentum shifts.

I agree it comes from throughout the lineup, but you just said something stating when have u seen those efforts from the passengers? Maybe they ain't buying what those 2 are selling, and are dependent on them to do the task as opposed to following there lead. Maybe I'm wrong, I also don't care if I am. But I hear it post game w the canucks all playoffs about how seeing ep or boeser or jt miller lay their bodies on the line really set the tone and example for the rest, like if Ur stars are doing it, u have no excuse. Again, this is all up for debate, whether u think it's a false narrative or not. If you think it's not true, I don't care lol. I'm just chipping in my 2 cents on the values I see that I define as tangible qualities that matter in the topic of leadership.

Also Im not even using the argument of one goal or that play that lead to a goal. You're right they all f*** up. I was talking about general actions.

 

[McFlyingV]

Well actually, there is tangible evidence when you see teammates speak of moments that come up during post game, when they speak of x player doing x thing and it had everyone believing. Tangible evidence when a play happens, the momentum shifts.

I agree it comes from throughout the lineup, but you just said something stating when have u seen those efforts from the passengers? Maybe they ain't buying what those 2 are selling, and are dependent on them to do the task as opposed to following there lead. Maybe I'm wrong, I also don't care if I am. But I hear it post game w the canucks all playoffs about how seeing ep or boeser or jt miller lay their bodies on the line really set the tone and example for the rest, like if Ur stars are doing it, u have no excuse. Again, this is all up for debate, whether u think it's a false narrative or not. If you think it's not true, I don't care lol. I'm just chipping in my 2 cents on the values I see that I define as tangible qualities that matter in the topic of leadership.

And have you watched every Oilers playoff game in the McDavid and Drai era? Both these players have come out and set the tone on numerous occasions with big hits, big back checks, big goals you name it. You would know this if you had.

There's nothing more to debate you can think these 2 are the problem and I can think that opinion is completely delusional and I'm sure many who have watched these two the past 3 years would agree with me.

 

[rea]

And have you watched every Oilers playoff game in the McDavid and Drai era? Both these players have come out and set the tone on numerous occasions with big hits, big back checks, big goals you name it. You would know this if you had.

There's nothing more to debate you can think these 2 are the problem and I can think that opinion is completely delusional and I'm sure many who have watched these two the past 3 years would agree with me.

I think you are getting worked up and presuming alot based on all this. I defended the person saying that Mb it's a leadership problem, because you said it's a lazy argument. You used as your argument that they produce points consistently, and I said that's not the only quality of leadership, which in turn u said there's no way of knowing because we don't have a pulse on what kind of leadership anyone brings, which I rebuttaled that yes, there is evidence of it.

There is 1 winner every year, there are challenges no matter what getting to the top, but you guys have a team that was defined as cup or bust, had everything necessary to win. Well it can still happen and this is all moot, but when do you start questioning these debates as maybe an issue if nothing else works?

Yea we can agree to disagree and move on, I don't feel the need to fight this battle that literally has no bearing on me, I just defended the aspect that maybe this could be an issue, and if you don't ok cool. Go make Ur team however u want. K thanks see u guys tm

 

[WestCoast CyberG]

This argument falls flat so many times when you watch a guy who is considered a "poor leader" go to a different team and win it all. See Jack Eichel who was crucified on this site.

Winning it all is one of the hardest thing to do and you can see teams who are considered "great leadership groups" win it once and then never come close again despite keeping that same leadership group together. The mythical idea of "leadership" is so overblown in hockey talk its become almost satirical when people bring it up.

Leadership is a big reason for Vancouver’s turnaround but I guess if the metrics say Edmonton are cup faves it must be true, lmao.

Crosby has multiple cups.
So does Toews.
Messier. Roy. Yzerman. Bergeron. TBays core for their cups.

The list is endless.
All leaders not just captains.

When is McDavid going to guarantee a win?

Yes, leadership matters.

It’s been long enough these two should have a cup by now.

 

[McFlyingV]

Leadership is a big reason for Vancouver’s turnaround but I guess if the metrics say Edmonton are cup faves it must be true, lmao.

Crosby has multiple cups.
So does Toews.
Messier. Roy. Yzerman. Bergeron. TBays core for their cups.

The list is endless.
All leaders not just captains.

When is McDavid going to guarantee a win?

Yes, leadership matters.

It’s been long enough these two should have a cup by now.

You want to know what none of those teams had? Massive holes at key positions and GMs who struck out multiple times in drafting, free agent signings, and trades or lack thereof in some cases. You keep clutching to this make believe leadership quality that you think wins championships. Good teams with complete rosters, quality management and quality drafting win cups. Which of these qualities do you believe the McDavid era Oilers have had?

There's a reason why Bergeron didn't win again despite all the excellent "leadership" you're talking about. And that reason has a name, Peter Chiarelli.

 

[Kuz]

Its not like they dont have any help.

One of the better goalscorers in the league in Hyman.
One of the better offensive D in Bouchard.
One of the better defensive D in Ekholm.
Another solid C in RNH.

The Nurse-Ceci pairing is not working and they and that Nurse contract is one of the main reason they are struggling. 1st pairing is good and 3rd pairing is also okey, but the second pairing is not good enough. Espescially for 12,5 mill in total.

Their forward depth is better than it has been with players like Kane, Henrique, Perry, Foegele and McLeod among the players on the team.

Weakness is goalie and defence and also the need to play McDavid, Drai and Hyman together. Yeah they will dominate, but it also punishes them when the other lines are on when most of their talent is on the ice at the same time as Bouchard and Ekholm will also have most of their time with that forward line.

 

[McFlyingV]

Its not like they dont have any help.

One of the better goalscorers in the league in Hyman.
One of the better offensive D in Bouchard.
One of the better defensive D in Ekholm.
Another solid C in RNH.

The Nurse-Ceci pairing is not working and they and that Nurse contract is one of the main reason they are struggling. 1st pairing is good and 3rd pairing is also okey, but the second pairing is not good enough. Espescially for 12,5 mill in total.

Their forward depth is better than it has been with players like Kane, Henrique, Perry, Foegele and McLeod among the players on the team.

Weakness is goalie and defence and also the need to play McDavid, Drai and Hyman together. Yeah they will dominate, but it also punishes them when the other lines are on when most of their talent is on the ice at the same time as Bouchard and Ekholm will also have most of their time with that forward line.

On paper the depth is better than it has been, but the depth is not performing when it matters. The team has scored 33 goals these playoffs and only 3 of them have happened when neither McDavid or Draisaitl were on the ice.

 

[daver]

Generally agree but keep in mind Leo is inured. They trying to protect him by having him on Mcdavid wing rather than carrying his own line. Hard to argue with his play none the less

It happens every playoffs though. They try to keep them separate then inevitably put them together if one of them isn't going. Even if one line could eat up minutes of the other team's top line and top d-pairing that would be better than going all-in on one line and having to play them 25 plus minutes.

It makes the other coaches job a lot easier when they know the strategy is go all in to limit the #1 line and don't take stupid penalties.