Germany-the next big country?

[McGarnagle]

"Germany-the next big country?"

Now, I don't know if you guys are history buffs or not

 

[Bruce Granville]

I was going along the same lines…

Germany started and lost two world wars…I think they’ll just stay put and don’t want to enlarge their borders…
I know for a fact that they’d love to part with some regions in the south and east…and, why not…the west, too.

 

[waitin425]

With Drai, seider, Stutzle and Peterka the future is very bright. Sneaky good

 

[Peiskos]

If you go purely by IIHF rankings, Germany has surpassed Sweden already, I would not be surprised in the slightest if Germany becomes a more dominant power in hockey and enters the "big country" conversations, long term I can see them at least being equals to countries like Finland and Sweden.

 

[saskriders]

I really like this German team, and I am glad that they got the silver. I would’ve been very pleased for them if they had claimed gold. But I think some of the posters here are delusional when they extrapolate from one single good result a trend towards being a top team long-term. The country they match more than any other according to some here which they might defeat on a routine basis is the Czech Republic. Reality check: the head-to-head stats are 23 Czech wins, 3 German wins (including 7 - 1 at world championships, which includes a very easy 4 - 1 defeat of Germany in the quarter finals last year). One tournament does not suddenly change the dynamic. And the German youth teams like U18 are weak.

Ice hockey will not experience a huge sudden boom because of this, either. Football is and will remain king in Germany, and there are lots of other sports that are popular and Germany is good at.

How many years ago does that sample size start? Even if they played twice every tournament you are still looking at over a decade. I'm not saying that Germany will necessarily become an elite team, but they certainly seem a lot better than 10 years ago and I don't think you can lump all those results together to make an argument.

 

[PromisedLand]

Till this date I cannot comprehend how a player like Drai started in Germany. Then you had Stutzle too.

 

[Albatros]

Draisaitl's dad is a professional hockey coach and former player, both at high level. Seider would be someone that defied odds.

 

[Old Man Jags]

How many years ago does that sample size start? Even if they played twice every tournament you are still looking at over a decade. I'm not saying that Germany will necessarily become an elite team, but they certainly seem a lot better than 10 years ago and I don't think you can lump all those results together to make an argument.

The sample size would have been from 1993 to now, but the Czech percentage win does not change if you make the sample size much more recent. The last time these teams played at an official tournament was 2022 in the world championship quarterfinals when the Czechs strolled to an easy win. The most recent record - ie from 2021 to now - is 6 Czech wins, one German win. The last game between the two, a friendly in 2023, was 5-1 to the Czechs.

 

[Old Man Jags]

Till this date I cannot comprehend how a player like Drai started in Germany. Then you had Stutzle too.

Drai actually has a Czech background, though I believe he was born in Germany. Not uncommon in the German team. Kahun was actually born in the Czech Republic and after the final gave an interview in excellent Czech to Czech TV. J J Peterka is of course of Czech descent (though also born in Germany). There are others and over the years have been numerous others of Czech descent in the German team…

 

[ts11]

How many years ago does that sample size start? Even if they played twice every tournament you are still looking at over a decade. I'm not saying that Germany will necessarily become an elite team, but they certainly seem a lot better than 10 years ago and I don't think you can lump all those results together to make an argument.

They are better than 10 years ago, that is true. Since 2016 they have constantly been able to reach the quarters with the exception being 2018.
That said, for me personally, I see a big hockey country as one that realistically aspires for a medal each year. And I don't see that for Germany in the next years, to dependant on player selection still.

 

[Albatros]

Drai actually has a Czech background, though I believe he was born in Germany. Not uncommon in the German team. Kahun was actually born in the Czech Republic and after the final gave an interview in excellent Czech to Czech TV. J J Peterka is of course of Czech descent (though also born in Germany). There are others and over the years have been numerous others of Czech descent in the German team…

There used to be over 3 million Germans in Czechoslovakia, but after the war most were expelled, and even those who weren't eventually ended up leaving voluntarily in most cases. Draisaitl's father moved to relatives across the border as a kid in the 1970s. Some that emigrated had played junior hockey in Czechoslovakia and had sometimes better hockey fundamentals than kids who started playing in Germany. But that was the situation 50 years ago.

 

[Old Man Jags]

There used to be over 3 million Germans in Czechoslovakia, but after the war most were expelled, and even those who weren't eventually ended up leaving voluntarily in most cases. Draisaitl's father moved to relatives across the border as a kid in the 1970s. Some that emigrated had played junior hockey in Czechoslovakia and had sometimes better hockey fundamentals than kids who started playing in Germany. But that was the situation 50 years ago.

Pretty sure quite a few of the players with Czech background over the years were not actually Sudeten Germans but Czechs who escaped Communism. Ironically, one player who is very much from a Sudeten German family was the captain of the Czech national team during a time of great success, and one of the most patriotic Czech players: Robert Reichel. His brother on the other hand opted to play for the German team!

 

[Lambo]

With Drai, seider, Stutzle and Peterka the future is very bright. Sneaky good

That is not enough! Depth is critical to long-term success.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I always understood the issue in Germany was that a lot of the kids gravitated towards soccer but if more went for hockey, Germany could definitely be solid hockey country.

 

[Albatros]

Pretty sure quite a few of the players with Czech background over the years were not actually Sudeten Germans but Czechs who escaped Communism. Ironically, one player who is very much from a Sudeten German family was the captain of the Czech national team during a time of great success, and one of the most patriotic Czech players: Robert Reichel. His brother on the other hand opted to play for the German team!

I wouldn't say there were many but some definitely, for example Jan Benda's parents fled Czechoslovakia to Belgium and eventually settled down in Germany. Especially around Munich there were some (they even established the sports team TV Sokol München in 1973), but most Czechs and Slovaks that fled in that era preferred other destinations as they weren't entitled to German citizenship anyway and the Czechoslovak government treated them as traitors, so staying close to home didn't make all that much sense. It's mostly after 1990 and especially after Czechia joined the European Union that Germany gained in popularity as a destination, although many only came temporarily to work and never acquired German citizenship. But in hockey you can see a couple of players who had dads that came to play pro hockey in the 1990s, ended up staying, and now the sons represent Germany. Tobias Ančička would be one example. Actually Martin Reichel came much like this too, but as you say they do have German roots and so he could get the passport easily.

About other players that were mentioned above, Kahun was born in Czechia to Czech parents who were in Germany for work, but after their divorce ended up staying in Germany for good with a German stepfather. Peterka has some distant Slovak roots giving the name, like a great grandparent or something, but no real connection.

 

[martygod12]

How many years ago does that sample size start? Even if they played twice every tournament you are still looking at over a decade. I'm not saying that Germany will necessarily become an elite team, but they certainly seem a lot better than 10 years ago and I don't think you can lump all those results together to make an argument.

last 10 games 9-1 W for Czechs, including two WC games in 2019 and 2022 with a score 9:2 for czechs, so its still pretty viable.

If you go purely by IIHF rankings, Germany has surpassed Sweden already, I would not be surprised in the slightest if Germany becomes a more dominant power in hockey and enters the "big country" conversations, long term I can see them at least being equals to countries like Finland and Sweden.View attachment 714076

Well rankings doesnt mean much, since its not calculated solely from best on best tournaments.

 

[Old Man Jags]

I wouldn't say there were many but some definitely, for example Jan Benda's parents fled Czechoslovakia to Belgium and eventually settled down in Germany. Especially around Munich there were some (they even established the sports team TV Sokol München in 1973), but most Czechs and Slovaks that fled in that era preferred other destinations as they weren't entitled to German citizenship anyway and the Czechoslovak government treated them as traitors, so staying close to home didn't make all that much sense. It's mostly after 1990 and especially after Czechia joined the European Union that Germany gained in popularity as a destination, although many only came temporarily to work and never acquired German citizenship. But in hockey you can see a couple of players who had dads that came to play pro hockey in the 1990s, ended up staying, and now the sons represent Germany. Tobias Ančička would be one example. Actually Martin Reichel came much like this too, but as you say they do have German roots and so he could get the passport easily.

About other players that were mentioned above, Kahun was born in Czechia to Czech parents who were in Germany for work, but after their divorce ended up staying in Germany for good with a German stepfather. Peterka has some distant Slovak roots giving the name, like a great grandparent or something, but no real connection.

Thanks for this, it includes some interesting information I had not been aware of, such as the club in Munich.

Given the popularity of ice hockey in the Czech Republic / Czechoslovakia I imagine most of the German players with some Czech roots started playing the sport because of that. I know I did (sadly quite badly - it turns out I have some talent for racket sports like tennis and table tennis, but none for ice hockey!). I lived in Germany from the age of 6 to 16 (we were political refugees from the Communists in 1981) and started playing ice hockey when I was 10 at a local club purely because of my Czech background. My grandfather was a hockey fanatic and made me one at an early age. Otherwise - until I joined the club - I didn’t know anyone who was interested in ice hockey. None of my friends or anyone in my class at school was. They were all into football, and tennis was big then. Huge tennis boom with Boris and Steffi at the time. So if I had not originally come from a country where the sport was popular, it would just not have occurred to me to get into it. That said, German TV did show the ice hockey world championships every year (at a time when there were only three TV channels, ARD, ZDF and WDR (and other regional third channels)).

 

[sxvnert]

Nope. The future in germany is looking bleak. Emigration will eventually take its toll.

 

[Old Man Jags]

Nope. The future in germany is looking bleak. Emigration will eventually take its toll.

Can you elaborate on that?