News Article: Geoff Molson re-affirms confidence in Marc Bergevin, will not hire a president of hockey operations

[tazsub3]

I think that’s a very good take of the situation. I would use Canes as an example, Waddell for all intents is nothing more than the PR mouthpiece, that is trotted out in front of the cameras, but per Dundon’s mandate analytics wonder boy Eric Tulsky has final say on all GM functions (contracts, trades, draft picks etc)

both toronto non hockey teams are also run this way. With shapiro/atkins for jats combo and masai bobby for the raptors, and both function extremely well.
but molson very insecure to go down that route

 

[salbutera]

both toronto non hockey teams are also run this way. With shapiro/atkins for jats combo and masai bobby for the raptors, and both function extremely well.
but molson very insecure to go down that route

The difference being it was under Ron Francis’ management the Canes built their core: Aho, Slavin, Pesce, Necas, Teravainen, Staal - the first four via draft

The trading since Dundon took over has been quite impressive, but other than gimme Svechnikov there really hasn’t been a WOW draft pick of note

 

[Edgy]

I think debating the language issue is futile. We've been doing that for the past 20 years at least. If the organisation deems it essential for the GM to speak French, then we could as well complain that the sun is rising in the mornig.

In my opinion, the better question is how we can find a way around this issue?

Assuming they've identified the best candidate and he doesn't speak French, could they hire him under the guise of a President of Hockey Operations? He would act as the GM, but behind closed doors. It would be up to him how much of the bussines he wants to leave in the hands on the official GM.

A formal GM would be a French-speaking apprentice, who would be responsible for communication and would be groomed by the President to take over real decision making in the future.

I'd be interested to hear from our posters with management experience if such a scheme is even workable?

Who would want to be a sock puppet? No one will accept being a GM for show and tell only.

Plus the local press and the vocal crowd will not accept having someone higher up in the org not being bilingual. If they expected and demanded the CEO or Air Canada to be bilingual and they've only spoken to him once, you know they'll want the President of Hockey Operations to be as well.

 

[CHwest]

both toronto non hockey teams are also run this way. With shapiro/atkins for jats combo and masai bobby for the raptors, and both function extremely well.
but molson very insecure to go down that route

Molson has been handed his fortune. He is more worried about not losing it than building on it. He is a silver spoon loser.

 

[417]

The language question is never ending..but it really doesn’t have to be.

Seems to me that any perspective GMs would understand and more importantly WANT to learn French, at least some level that’s acceptable or shows a measure of recognizing the uniqueness of this market.

You might not know French today but if you want this job and you want to be successful at it, that comes with the territory.

Stands to reason that this would ensure the best and most earnest candidates are considered.

 

[Mandala]

Competent goes not mean good.

Full Definition of competent
1: proper or rightly pertinent
2: having requisite or adequate ability or qualities : FITa competent teachera competent piece of work
3: legally qualified or adequatea competent witness

As I said what is your definition. You just showed me three different meanings. Which is the one you use?

Definition number two is pretty good to me.

 

[CHwest]

As I said what is your definition. You just showed me three different meanings. Which is the one you use?

Definition number two is pretty good to me.

I don't want a GM That has requisite or adequate ability. I want an outstanding GM, he or she is the most important person on a team.

 

[tazsub3]

Molson has been handed his fortune. He is more worried about not losing it than building on it. He is a silver spoon loser.

very well said.

 

[salbutera]

I don't want a GM That has requisite or adequate ability. I want an outstanding GM, he or she is the most important person on a team.

Such as?

 

[Mcdonaldz]

Who would want to be a sock puppet? No one will accept being a GM for show and tell only.

Ron Hextall in Pittsburg … ?

 

[jackeymoon]

Molson has been handed his fortune. He is more worried about not losing it than building on it. He is a silver spoon loser.

I always thought the main impetus to the Weber trade was getting out of paying PK 9+ mil and saving 1.2 on Webers/knowing he would retire early and insurance would pay out the rest.

 

[CHwest]

Such as?

Not Bargainbin. Why is this the go to. I don't freaking know, there are people paid to find them.

 

[Habs Halifax]

add Anderson , Chariot , Byron and Armia.
Alot of dead weight money on secondary players.

That's not dead weight. Very far from it.

 

[Mandala]

I don't want a GM That has requisite or adequate ability. I want an outstanding GM, he or she is the most important person on a team.

By definition to demonstrate ability someone has to have shown results.

 

[Mandala]

By definition to demonstrate ability someone has to have shown results.

Competent definition by Oxford:

Having the necessary ability, knowledge, or skill to do something successfully.
"a highly competent surgeon"

• (of a person) efficient and capable.
  "an infinitely competent mother of three"
  Words with similar meaning :
  capable
  able
  proficient
  proficient at my job
  adept
  adept at cutting through red tape"
  adroit
  adroit
  accomplished
  skillful
  skilled
  gifted
  talented
  masterly
  virtuoso
  expert
  knowledgeable
  qualified
  trained
  efficient
  good
  excellent
  brilliant
  great
  mean
  wicked
  deadly
  nifty
  crack
  ace
  wizard
  magic
  crackerjack
  compleat
  habile
• 
  
• So a competent candidate is what we need.

 

[Franck]

The language question is never ending..but it really doesn’t have to be.

Seems to me that any perspective GMs would understand and more importantly WANT to learn French, at least some level that’s acceptable or shows a measure of recognizing the uniqueness of this market.

You might not know French today but if you want this job and you want to be successful at it, that comes with the territory.

Stands to reason that this would ensure the best and most earnest candidates are considered.

It's a nice idea in theory, but it wouldn't work in practice. Middle-aged, monolingual men working in an English-speaking workplace aren't prime candidates for language learning. Even the most well-meaning candidate would struggle to get to B1 level in a reasonable time-frame.

I know people could point towards football coaches as counter-examples, but the key difference with them is that they actually work in environments that use the language they are learning, while the Habs management is an English-speaking workplace behind the scenes.

Just look at the players, when was the last time someone came in and learned more than a couple of words of French?

 

[417]

It's a nice idea in theory, but it wouldn't work in practice. Middle-aged, monolingual men working in an English-speaking workplace aren't prime candidates for language learning. Even the most well-meaning candidate would struggle to get to B1 level in a reasonable time-frame.

Then I suppose they don't really want the job.

I know people could point towards football coaches as counter-examples, but the key difference with them is that they actually work in environments that use the language they are learning, while the Habs management is an English-speaking workplace behind the scenes.

But a GM would live in Quebec, just seems like the appropriate thing to do is to at least be able to learn some level of French. I don't think it's fair to make that a qualification for the job, but I think it's completely reasonable to expect it to be something any perspective GM would want to learn in order to engrain himself into the community and province he'll be living in.

Just look at the players, when was the last time someone came in and learned more than a couple of words of French?

It's different from players to a GM or coach.

But sure.

 

[Franck]

It would be interesting if they went for a non-Canadian French speaker (i.e. Swiss, since they are the only other country that speaks French and has a legitimate hockey culture). Then we'd see if it's about speaking French or being a Québécois.

The team supposedly looked at Slava Bykov (who is fluent in French as a result of some 20 years living in Switzerland) as a potential head coach in the past but canned the idea because he doesn't speak English.

 

[WeThreeKings]

It's a nice idea in theory, but it wouldn't work in practice. Middle-aged, monolingual men working in an English-speaking workplace aren't prime candidates for language learning. Even the most well-meaning candidate would struggle to get to B1 level in a reasonable time-frame.

I know people could point towards football coaches as counter-examples, but the key difference with them is that they actually work in environments that use the language they are learning, while the Habs management is an English-speaking workplace behind the scenes.

Just look at the players, when was the last time someone came in and learned more than a couple of words of French?

You kind of answered the whole thing with the bolded sentence.

 

[Film Noir]

The language question is never ending..but it really doesn’t have to be.

Seems to me that any perspective GMs would understand and more importantly WANT to learn French, at least some level that’s acceptable or shows a measure of recognizing the uniqueness of this market.

You might not know French today but if you want this job and you want to be successful at it, that comes with the territory.

Stands to reason that this would ensure the best and most earnest candidates are considered.

Exactly! I don't want a GM so dumb that he can't learn basic French.

 

[Franck]

For what it's worth I think the whole language debate is pointless at best and a cop-out at worst.

People keep going on about "the most competent candidate" as if there was a shelf stacked with exceptional candidates that the Habs are ignoring. The reality is that the overwhelming majority of management and coaching personalities in the NHL are mediocre and the Habs limiting themselves to hiring only from a smaller wing in that gallery of mediocrity does not really have any negative effect. People who are truly exceptional are almost never available and in the rare cases that they are I have no doubt that the team would try to hire them if they could.

If you are going to hire somebody who is mediocre, which is what basically every NHL team ends up doing when they make a change, you may as well hire someone who is mediocre and bilingual.

 

[WeThreeKings]

For what it's worth I think the whole language debate is pointless at best and a cop-out at worst.

People keep going on about "the most competent candidate" as if there was a shelf stacked with exceptional candidates that the Habs are ignoring. The reality is that the overwhelming majority of management and coaching personalities in the NHL are mediocre and the Habs limiting themselves to hiring only from a smaller wing in that gallery of mediocrity does not really have any negative effect. People who are truly exceptional are almost never available and in the rare cases that they are I have no doubt that the team would try to hire them if they could.

If you are going to hire somebody who is mediocre, which is what basically every NHL team ends up doing when they make a change, you may as well hire someone who is mediocre and bilingual.

We had an exceptional bilingual candidate in house in Julien Brisebois, they were available because we let them go since we were too dumb to move on to him when it was apparent he should be the successor.

And while yes, the majority of executives are mediocre and suffer from a similar problem (ex hockey players who get thrust up the corporate ladder due to relationships and not ability); you aren't noting one big difference.

The fact our bilingual pool is almost uniquely coming up through the QMJHL and Hockey-Quebec. Meaning that we are constantly hiring from the same philosophies and people coming up with the same ideologies. Learning the game the same way and applying those same tenants.

It's not a coincidence that if you blurred out the face of the coach behind the bench that you wouldn't find huge differences between Vigneault, Therrien, Julien and Martin.

 

[CHwest]

Competent definition by Oxford:

Having the necessary ability, knowledge, or skill to do something successfully.
"a highly competent surgeon"

• (of a person) efficient and capable.
  "an infinitely competent mother of three"
  Words with similar meaning :
  capable
  able
  proficient
  proficient at my job
  adept
  adept at cutting through red tape"
  adroit
  adroit
  accomplished
  skillful
  skilled
  gifted
  talented
  masterly
  virtuoso
  expert
  knowledgeable
  qualified
  trained
  efficient
  good
  excellent
  brilliant
  great
  mean
  wicked
  deadly
  nifty
  crack
  ace
  wizard
  magic
  crackerjack
  compleat
  habile
• 
  
• So a competent candidate is what we need.

No, a highly competent GM is what we need.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I don't want a GM That has requisite or adequate ability. I want an outstanding GM, he or she is the most important person on a team.

What would be your strategy if you were Molson? Fire Bergevin and hope that the new outstanding GM pops up? Kind of what we did when Gauthier was fired and we hired Bergevin eh .

 

[CHwest]

What would be your strategy if you were Molson? Fire Bergevin and hope that the new outstanding GM pops up? Kind of what we did when Gauthier was fired and we hired Bergevin eh .

Well we know what binman brings to the table. Expand the search for a GM to all of hockeydom. Its not rocket science. And no I don't know the name of some hotshot, there are lots of head hunting companies out there, hire one to find a GM. Its not hard to improve on what we have. Binman was a big downgrade on Gauthier.