News Article: Geoff Molson re-affirms confidence in Marc Bergevin, will not hire a president of hockey operations

[eklund the clown]

TT is responsible here but ultimately he reports to Bergevin.

Replacing MB isn't enough. The whole house needs to be cleaned.

Blaming Timmins is kind of a reach.He suggests which players to draft but Bergevin has the final say. Also the Habs do not spend enough money on Scouting.One of their biggest flaws.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Correct.

Its actually insane.

Blaming Timmins is kind of a reach.He suggests which players to draft but Bergevin has the final say. Also the Habs do not spend enough money on Scouting.One of their biggest flaws.

Its pretty clearly on both of them. If you aren't going to at least partially blame the AGM in charge of amateur scouting for your amateur scouting, who are you going to blame?

 

[Mediocre since 93]

Its actually insane.

People defend this management LOL, thank god we've traded the drafted players for such elite talents like Drouin, Anderson.

 

[Halakitlikethat]

Still waiting for names of who is the super-genius GM we could hire tomorrow who would solve all problems if only we didn't ban .

that’s not for the fans to decide, that’s on Molson to find the best people to run this organization. You’re right, the drafting and development have been god awful, that falls on Bergevin and Timmins. It’s time for a new direction for this franchise and to move on from these two. They’ve had one PPG player in like 30 years.

 

[Captain Mountain]

People defend this management LOL, thank god we've traded the drafted players for such elite talents like Drouin, Anderson.

Anderson was acquired for Domi who was acquired for Galchenyuk. But the point remains. Bergevin might actually be pretty good at completing a team to contend (I think he'd be pretty good in Toronto). But Montreal doesn't need that, they need an actual core. One of the reason's this team has been less than the sum of their parts is that there is no truly elite player to put the team on his back for a couple of games to get the team going in the right direction. They can work hard, but they aren't working smart or in the same direction. And they don't have the elite talent where working hard is what gets you out of it.

 

[sheed36]

if that's the case then it's even more at fault for the guy that promoted his head scout and just recently promoted his top Euro scout despite the fact that we couldn't draft anyone better then DLR from Sweden since he joined us in 2010.

But the biggest issue is why I brought up this thread, Molson is either clueless, lazy or only cares about counting his money.

You forgot to add the "all of the above" option.

 

[JoelWarlord]

I'm also not sure why I need to have a name off the top of my head of some super genius instantly available replacement to want Bergevin gone. I'm not a hockey insider, I'm just some guy on the computer who has a job where I send my little emails all day, I don't have an exhaustive list of candidates.

Whatever, Martin Madden seems like a decent choice? Bring in Patrick Roy at this point, there just needs to be a change.

 

[Mediocre since 93]

Anderson was acquired for Domi who was acquired for Galchenyuk. But the point remains. Bergevin might actually be pretty good at completing a team to contend (I think he'd be pretty good in Toronto). But Montreal doesn't need that, they need an actual core. One of the reason's this team has been less than the sum of their parts is that there is no truly elite player to put the team on his back for a couple of games to get the team going in the right direction. They can work hard, but they aren't working smart or in the same direction. And they don't have the elite talent where working hard is what gets you out of it.

Yeah and I can't tell if its more of a drafting problem or development problem but its likely a bit of both. The way they handled the AHL for the first what 4-5 years, with Sylvain Lefebvre as the coach shoulda been enough to get Bergevin fired. They basically punted on development for half his tenure and everyone acted like it was fine.

 

[JoelWarlord]

I think the thing that's frustrating above all else is that this team has been shit at player development for so long, but don't seem to ever recognize that and try to sell high on guys they don't like for whatever reason. If they're going to suck at development at least they could start trading the prospects before they've lost all their value.

Like yeah, turning Kotkaniemi and Galchenyuk into Dvorak and Anderson is good asset management relative to what those players were worth at the time they left the Canadiens, but it's shit asset management relative to what you could have got if you made an actual bold decision and just moved the guy that you irrationally hate and will never give a proper chance.

Same with Domi. They knew he was a poor defender and he struggles on the wing where he doesn't have the space to distribute. Instead of recognizing that those flaws would make him unsuitable (or at least would make the coaching staff perceive him to be) for the system the Canadiens wanted to play, and trading him at peak value after a 72 point season, they hung on to him, put him on the 3rd line as a winger, and pissed him off on the 4th line in the playoffs for the sake of a guy they ended up trading for Dvorak 15 months later! I will never understand why they have these players they hate for being too small or bad defenders or whatever but they just hang on to them as if Max Domi is ever going to start defending like Phil Danault instead of just cashing in at max value.

 

[Mediocre since 93]

I think the thing that's frustrating above all else is that this team has been shit at player development for so long, but don't seem to ever recognize that and try to sell high on guys they don't like for whatever reason. If they're going to suck at development at least they could start trading the prospects before they've lost all their value.

Like yeah, turning Kotkaniemi and Galchenyuk into Dvorak and Anderson is good asset management relative to what those players were worth at the time they left the Canadiens, but it's shit asset management relative to what you could have got if you made an actual bold decision and just moved the guy that you irrationally hate and will never give a proper chance.

They should trade Caufield now if they plan on basically continuing on with the same management style with or without Bergevin. There's zero chance Caufield will prosper if they continue like this.

 

[eklund the clown]

I'm also not sure why I need to have a name off the top of my head of some super genius instantly available replacement to want Bergevin gone. I'm not a hockey insider, I'm just some guy on the computer who has a job where I send my little emails all day, I don't have an exhaustive list of candidates.

Whatever, Martin Madden seems like a decent choice? Bring in Patrick Roy at this point, there just needs to be a change.

Exactly we are just fans who want this crap team to be better.How in the world would most of us know who the next big thing for a GM would be? I am sure if we called Molson and told him that the peeps on this forum said Joel la Poisson or Jim Black is the choice he would listen.He's a billionaire with loads of resources.I am sure he could make a sound decision.

 

[sheed36]

I don't know who they can even possibly bring in to try and clean up some of this cluster**** of a mess but you just can't leave the same people who created this huge mess in charge of finding the solution any longer.

Poor drafting and poor development as plagued the Habs franchise for far to long and we're now seeing the damage it's done. I pity the poor bastard who gets hired next to come in and attempt to fix this huge pile of fail.

 

[Scintillating10]

I don’t like Bergevin but I fail to see how his tenure is worst than any other Habs GM for the past 25 years.

And I am 99,99% positive the next GM won’t do better.

let’s state the reality here in Mtl:

-you can’t commit to a full rebuild.
-GM and coach need to speak french. So basically, 80% of the coaches and GMs can’t be hired.
-Quality UFAs will never sign here
-Worst of all, players need to produce in pressure-cooker market.

So to simplify. It doesn’t matter if the GM is Yzerman or Jean-Guy de Laval, the team will never be contender under the actual situation.

We've seen our last Stanley Cup Finals here in Montreal. You forgot to mention star players wilt here. It happened to Price, Roy and Claude Lemieux. Mario wouldn't even play here. You know next star player will fold also.

 

[FF de Mars]

The problem is trying to land a winning team every year. When you are weak you are strong says Jesus...

 

[Burke the Legend]

What about the guy in your profile picture who's been gone for 5 years and still represents a glaring roster hole that hasn't been fixed yet?

I'm a big Markov fan but don't buy that myth about him. The forgotten part of the story is that Markov was declining, and was especially bad in the 2017 playoff, he was covered by Weber and Price. He was clearly close to the end and maybe could have played another year maybe as a protected , limited ice time PP specialist 6-7 D-man but he was demanding top dollar, 6$ million (apparently 2 years). Then when Bergevin tried to negotiate with him (since he had no agent) he got personally insulted and immediately flew off back to Russia. Didn't exactly light up the KHL after.

 

[Captain Mountain]

We've seen our last Stanley Cup Finals here in Montreal. You forgot to mention star players wilt here. It happened to Price, Roy and Claude Lemieux. Mario wouldn't even play here. You know next star player will fold also.

Claude Lemieux wasn't a star player. The org has also generally been shit at managing expectations since they're allergic to rebuilding for whatever reason.

You also generally need more than one star player to avoid the whole wilting thing. Like so much else, its not a unique thing to Montreal, its just something Montreal thinks is unique to Montreal.

 

[Riggins]

Change the thread title please, I get a heart attack every time I see it.

 

[JoelWarlord]

I'm a big Markov fan but don't buy that myth about him.

What myth? I don't fully agree with what you said about his decline and I think he still had another year left as a #3 with either Petry or Weber, but it's not a myth that they didn't bring him back after 16-17 and we're now in season 5 since that change without any replacement for his skillset.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Change the thread title please, I get a heart attack every time I see it.

Yeah - “news” article from early June.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Yeah - “news” article from early June.

June 2020.

 

[Frankenheimer]

I don't really care how many draft picks are playing on the team unless there is a correlation between that statistic and team performance (which, in any case, would have to take into account elite draft picks that have a strong impact on team performance). It could be shitty teams have a higher ratio than normal of draft picks playing on the team, either because they perform badly every year, and therefore rewarded for their failure with the best young talent, or because a team cant afford top players so stick with recently drafted players. Point is: it's a useless statistic. What matters is if draft assets have been used to acquire talent (prospects or established).

The biggest obstacle the team faces is the same exact obstacle as for the last 30 years. The absence of elite offensive talent. They are rare but absolutely essential pieces for winning a cup. Not a sufficient condition, but with rare exceptions, necessary. Hence the only move I care about is how to convert our assets into at least ONE ppg per game player that will be on the team for next 8 years. Everything else can be moved around to fill in the gaps.

 

[Ozmodiar]

June 2020.

damn!

 

[BLONG7]

I'm a big Markov fan but don't buy that myth about him. The forgotten part of the story is that Markov was declining, and was especially bad in the 2017 playoff, he was covered by Weber and Price. He was clearly close to the end and maybe could have played another year maybe as a protected , limited ice time PP specialist 6-7 D-man but he was demanding top dollar, 6$ million (apparently 2 years). Then when Bergevin tried to negotiate with him (since he had no agent) he got personally insulted and immediately flew off back to Russia. Didn't exactly light up the KHL after.

I think his team, won a Championship though.........................All things considered, this was the move, that absolutely killed our D and the style of play we had. We still five years later, not replaced Markov.
Even aging he was our best puck moving D.............Bergevin has failed so miserably over the last 5-6 seasons to build this team. Trades and free agents are suppose to help, but not be the answer, the answer is in the drafting and developing.

 

[The Great Weal]

Its actually insane.



Its pretty clearly on both of them. If you aren't going to at least partially blame the AGM in charge of amateur scouting for your amateur scouting, who are you going to blame?

So much for building through the draft. Would have respected him more if he just traded every pick and prospect for players since they can't draft and develop anything.

People still defending Timmins is unreal.

 

[dcyhabs]

Anderson was acquired for Domi who was acquired for Galchenyuk. But the point remains. Bergevin might actually be pretty good at completing a team to contend (I think he'd be pretty good in Toronto). But Montreal doesn't need that, they need an actual core. One of the reason's this team has been less than the sum of their parts is that there is no truly elite player to put the team on his back for a couple of games to get the team going in the right direction. They can work hard, but they aren't working smart or in the same direction. And they don't have the elite talent where working hard is what gets you out of it.

He had the opportunity to do that and the best player he added was Ott. Staal actually had one good series but was that worth keeping him for all the rest of the time when he showed he was too old? Some of the other guys he added just dragged the team down like King and Martinsen.

Bergevin might actually be OK with a president of hockey operations. I don't see any evidence of planning or vision, just reasonably good improvisation. He tries really hard to win trades, and maybe Schlemko, Davidson, King, Ott, and so on were good value, but they weren't what the team needed. Same with Hoffman this year, great value, good player, not a player the habs need or even have room for. He really needs someone to tell him who he should and shouldn't get, trades, signings, drafts, and to bring some vision and planning. Someone who can say "we need a playmaker or a physical player not another sniper who needs to be sheltered, and we don't really need another sixth to seventh D man." Someone who'll stop him from cycling through depth guys.