WC: General Talk '14 — Germany

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So hope starting lineup looks like this

Grubauer
(Zepp, Aus den Birken)
Hördler - Kohl
Ankert - Braun
Krüger - Akdag
(Reul, M. Müller)

Ehliz - Barta - Schütz
Mauer - Hospelt - Oppenheimer
Noebels - Draisaitl - Rieder
Seidenberg - Kink - Pietta
(Kahun, Weiss, Plachta)
 
The Köppchen topic was discussed already, but to add to this:
He neither expected to be nominated nor would he have accepted an invitation by Cortina. That's what he told me around the Olympics in February.
 
(Cortina didn't want Greiss because he often declined the invitation in the past)

That's not quite correct. Greiss simply wasn't available in the recent past, and Cortina "officially" wanted to use players who had been around lately. It had nothing to do with Greiss declining invitations, as he never really had the chance to decline any invitations in the first place.

Obviously that kind of thinking doesn't make a whole lot of sense when you invite quite a few young players who have never played for Germany before.
 
That's not quite correct. Greiss simply wasn't available in the recent past, and Cortina "officially" wanted to use players who had been around lately. It had nothing to do with Greiss declining invitations, as he never really had the chance to decline any invitations in the first place.

Yes, that's what Cortina said, but from my standpoint of view not what he meant. Greiss could've played in 2011 (played the season in Sweden) and 2012 (Sharks lost in the 1st round to the Blues). I remember a quote of Greiss, where he said that Germany had enough good goalies and that there is no need for him to play for the national team in a WC.

Obviously that kind of thinking doesn't make a whole lot of sense when you invite quite a few young players who have never played for Germany before.

I completely disagree with you. These young players are really excited that they can play for Germany. It's better to give them a chance than other older players who take the national team as a bonus, but aren't too excited about it (i.e. Marcel Müller). It would be great if players like Draisaitl, Rieder and the other young players are willed to play for Germany throughout their career and not just for the Olympics. Germany needs players who are really commited to play for their country, so I like Cortina's decision to use young players like Draisaitl, Rieder and Noebels.
 
Yes, that's what Cortina said, but from my standpoint of view not what he meant. Greiss could've played in 2011 (played the season in Sweden) and 2012 (Sharks lost in the 1st round to the Blues). I remember a quote of Greiss, where he said that Germany had enough good goalies and that there is no need for him to play for the national team in a WC.



I completely disagree with you. These young players are really excited that they can play for Germany. It's better to give them a chance than other older players who take the national team as a bonus, but aren't too excited about it (i.e. Marcel Müller). It would be great if players like Draisaitl, Rieder and the other young players are willed to play for Germany throughout their career and not just for the Olympics. Germany needs players who are really commited to play for their country, so I like Cortina's decision to use young players like Draisaitl, Rieder and Noebels.

I don't remember Greiss ever saying such a thing. On the contrary, the only one who said something like that was Cortina, using that as a reason why Greiss wasn't necessary. Also, Greiss not playing in a tournament doesn't mean he rejected an invitation.


I never said that using these young guys is wrong. No idea what makes you think that. I am thrilled that players like Draisaitl, Rieder or Grubauer are on the roster. I was merely stating that you cannot use the 'the team has developed over the last few years and a certain player hasn't been with the team for quite some time' card as reason why you didn't invite someone, while inviting plenty of players who never have played for Germany before. Those players haven't been involved with the team in the last few years either, yet somehow that's not a problem. All I did was pointing out this double-standard.
 
I don't remember Greiss ever saying such a thing. On the contrary, the only one who said something like that was Cortina, using that as a reason why Greiss wasn't necessary. Also, Greiss not playing in a tournament doesn't mean he rejected an invitation.

Well, I can't find the source anymore, but I'm still pretty sure that he said there was no need for him to play in the WC. I'll post it here, if I find the source again.


I never said that using these young guys is wrong. No idea what makes you think that. I am thrilled that players like Draisaitl, Rieder or Grubauer are on the roster. I was merely stating that you cannot use the 'the team has developed over the last few years and a certain player hasn't been with the team for quite some time' card as reason why you didn't invite someone, while inviting plenty of players who never have played for Germany before. Those players haven't been involved with the team in the last few years either, yet somehow that's not a problem. All I did was pointing out this double-standard.

I think Cortina is using these young players to integrate them into this development. Veterans like Tripp, Gogulla are injured, so it totally makes sense to use young players to start their development - I don't even think that he's got another choice and my point is: I don't see a double-standard.
 
I think Cortina is using these young players to integrate them into this development. Veterans like Tripp, Gogulla are injured, so it totally makes sense to use young players to start their development - I don't even think that he's got another choice and my point is: I don't see a double-standard.

Again, whether these young players are used or not has absolutely nothing to do with it.

What matters is that you can't say you don't invite a player because he hasn't played for the team lately, only to invite other players who haven't played for the team lately. And yes, that is most definately a double-standard.
 
Yes, that's what Cortina said, but from my standpoint of view not what he meant. Greiss could've played in 2011 (played the season in Sweden) and 2012 (Sharks lost in the 1st round to the Blues). I remember a quote of Greiss, where he said that Germany had enough good goalies and that there is no need for him to play for the national team in a WC.

Well, I don't know about 2011 (when Krupp was head coach), but in 2012 Kölliker was hesitant about nominating Greiss because he was playing in NA and was not used to the bigger surface. He had planned to invite Greiss, but since he was missing the final exhibition games before the tournament, and could not get used to the bigger ice, Kölliker did not select him. At least that is how I remember it.
Although I do seem to recall that there were some discussion about the reasons why Greiss could or would not come over for those las exhibition games after the Sharks had been eliminated from the playoff. Apparently he had some obligations still with the Sharks organisation, but I believe some people thought there was a different reason.
 
There is no better goalie around than Rob ****ing Zepp? You've got to be kidding, right?

So who's your pick?

Kotschnew? He retired from the national team.

Brückmann? He only played 20 games this season and didn't make it in the direct competition against Zepp.

Vogl? He had good numbers this season, but I'm still not sold on him.

The only player you could make a case for is Pielmeier. But that's more a decision between Pielmeier and adB because you can't nominate two goalies who haven't been in training camp with the team, especially with Grubauer joining the team rather late. If you go with Pielmeier, you have to leave adB at home (so Zepp's still on the team).

I don't see any other realistic choice. I'm not saying that Zepp should be the starting goaltender, but he's definitely a solid guy. He was a top-3 player on this team last WC and is an experienced guy who's been in some games where the pressure was on him. He's a solid choice. If Endras was available I'd cut Zepp, too but for now I can easily live with Zepp.
 
Ok these are my extremely subjective thoughts on the individual performances of the players:

Alexander Barta - Thought he was rather underwhelming for most of the tournament.

Leon Draisaitl - Good start and strong finish. A few struggles in the middle but always showing glimpses of the player he could turn into. And although it showed sometimes that, despite his size, he was just a kid playing amongst men, he did hold his own pretty well.

Yasin Ehliz - Would have loved to see him play more. He was so good in the exhibition games. Should be one of the pillars for the future.

Kai Hospelt - Sometimes invisible but in a good way. A little worse defensively than he used to be, but still a solid performance.

Marcus Kink - Not a big fan. He always works hard at both ends of the ice and is a good penalty killer, but for what he brings, I thought he got too much ice time.

Frank Mauer - He is the poster boy or blue print for German forwards. He's got some skill, some speed, creates chances and needs about a hundred of those to score one goal. I didn't think he played particularly well.

Marcel Noebels - One of the bright spots. After his disappointing AHL-season I wasn't sure why he should be on the team at all, but compared to his first WC apperance last year, he has improved drastically. Loved his energy and his great two-way-game, he could be more of a goal scorer though, like he used to be in juniors.

Thomas Oppenheimer - Another bright spot, although he seemed to struggle a little at the end, when other teams started to pay more attention to him. But still a very imprssive showing, that I wouldn't have expected. I was actually quite skeptical and would have preferred Flaake to be healthy and on the team instead of Oppenheimer. Although both would have been even better.

Daniel Pietta - Everytime I think he shouldn't really be there, and he wasn't really good this time, but he always hustles and works hard which is nice to see. However, I don't think he will ever be more than a fringe player on this team.

Matthias Plachta - Liked him a lot in the exhibition games playing with Draisaitl and Kahun/Rieder. Thought he was ok when he played, but he needs to improve, which he should be able to do at his age.

Tobias Rieder - Liked him a lot, although he made more mistakes once he got a bigger role on the team, but overall he was one of the better players.

Felix Schütz - Like Barta I was rather disappointed with Schütz. Maybe these guys were hurt or just too tired, but given past performances I was expecting them to lead the way, instead it were Hospelt, Oppenheimer and Noebels who played like the first line.

Yannic Seidenberg - Too bad he isn't closer to his brother in size and strength. Despite his best efforts he got outmuscled a little too often, and he is not a good enough skater and stickhandler to make up for it. Still his intensity and relentlessnes were good to see.

Alexander Weiß - He did not play a lot, and was not really noticeable to me until the last game vs. the US. He scored on a beautiful breakaway and showed a nice combination of grit and skill. However, when some of the injured/suspended/busy players return, he might not make the team.

Sinan Akdag- I was impressed with him in the exhibition games and even more so after this tournament. Mostly solid defensively and some really nice plays in the offensive zone as well. For me he is one of the winners of these Championships.

Thorsten Ankert - I don’t think he stood out in any way, neither good nor bad. He did have a couple nice passes and was not a liability on defense, but I have seen him play better.

Constantin Braun - A really rough tournament for Braun. I think he often tried to do too much, and ended up hurting the team in the process. He is still a long way from being his old self again. He looked slower than he used to, and made to many mistakes in the defensive zone. But once he returns to form, he will be a valuable player for this team again.

Frank Hördler - Minus a couple of stupid plays/penalties he played almost as well as he usually does in the DEL. He did his job defensively and showed his often underrated offensive potential. Overall I thought he wasn’t great but good.

Benedikt Kohl – I didn’t think he should have been on the team and at times he showed me why. But he had his good moments as well. Overall I though he was mediocre at best, though I might not be the most objective when it comes to him.

Justin Krueger - I thought he started pretty well, doing what he does best: Shutting people down. However, it looked to me that he got worse as the tournament went on and I ended up being a little disappointed.

Moritz Müller - He didn’t play in all the games. When he played he did not stand out. He tried to be physical, but he often struggled to keep up with some of the shiftier forwards. Although he had that in common with pretty much every other defender.

Denis Reul – Looking back a few years, I was pleasantly surprised how much his skating and agility has improved. He is still not a player I would like to rely on too heavily, but I think he had a very decent tournament and maybe it is time to consider him as an alternative even when we’re not missing 5 or 6 of our best defenders.

Danny aus den Birken - He only played one game, and while he wasn’t bad, despite allowing 5 goals, he didn’t make too many great saves either.

Philipp Grubauer - He should have been the starter in most games. He was clearly the better goaltender compared to Zepp, and I actually think Germany may have made the quarterfinal or at least finished 5th in their group if he had played 4 or 5 games instead of 2.

Rob Zepp - I like Zepp, I really do, and I am not going to say that he shouldn’t be on the roster, but he is not our best goalie and should only have been the backup.


Again these are just my opinions, and I am far from an expert.
So feel free to disagree.
 
Thanks for the excellent review Maverick. I watched most of the games and agree with most of your analysis. Thought Rieder should have played a bigger role, and would have liked to have seen the younger players used more aggressively rather than the old, solid but unspectacular regulars.

Couple of questions. I know Grubauer was a bit shaky in the pre-tournament games, however what was Cortina thinking starting Zepp, or at least playing Zepp in the majority of the important, must win games? At some point, decisions such as this will have to hurt Cortina, which leads to my second question. Watching teams such as France, Norway and Latvia, the German National Team has greater talent and better depth. Although (as you pointed out with Frank Mauer) offense is usually one of Germany's weaker points, this team just seemed like it was missing something, and IMHO better coaching/strategy would make all the difference in the world.

Interested in hearing your input and thoughts.
 
Thanks for the excellent review Maverick. I watched most of the games and agree with most of your analysis. Thought Rieder should have played a bigger role, and would have liked to have seen the younger players used more aggressively rather than the old, solid but unspectacular regulars.

Couple of questions. I know Grubauer was a bit shaky in the pre-tournament games, however what was Cortina thinking starting Zepp, or at least playing Zepp in the majority of the important, must win games? At some point, decisions such as this will have to hurt Cortina, which leads to my second question. Watching teams such as France, Norway and Latvia, the German National Team has greater talent and better depth. Although (as you pointed out with Frank Mauer) offense is usually one of Germany's weaker points, this team just seemed like it was missing something, and IMHO better coaching/strategy would make all the difference in the world.

Interested in hearing your input and thoughts.

I don't really think Germany has greater talent than France or Latvia. Better depth probably, but not greater talent overall. However, I get what you are saying. It become sort of a thing with the German team that they don't really play up to their potential and this seems to be a coaching issue.
I like that Cortina has brought along guys like Noebels, Rieder, Draisaitl, etc. but then he makes decisions like playing Zepp over Grubauer that really frustrate me as a fan.
Again Zepp isn't a bad goalie, but you can't go into a tournament like this with him as your starter, when you have better options available.

Why Cortina did this, I don't know, but he made it clear very early on that Zepp was his starter, even before Grubauer got his first start in an pre-tournament game. Zepp just seems to be his guy.
 
I don't really think Germany has greater talent than France or Latvia. Better depth probably, but not greater talent overall. However, I get what you are saying. It become sort of a thing with the German team that they don't really play up to their potential and this seems to be a coaching issue.
I like that Cortina has brought along guys like Noebels, Rieder, Draisaitl, etc. but then he makes decisions like playing Zepp over Grubauer that really frustrate me as a fan.
Again Zepp isn't a bad goalie, but you can't go into a tournament like this with him as your starter, when you have better options available.

Why Cortina did this, I don't know, but he made it clear very early on that Zepp was his starter, even before Grubauer got his first start in an pre-tournament game. Zepp just seems to be his guy.

Perhaps not on this year's version of the national team, but if you consider all of the prospects that have been drafted over the past five or six years, the 'talent pool' Germany has to draw from is certain better than most of the 'Next Eight' (France, Latvia, Belarus, etc.). It is just that, with the exception of SLC 2002 and 2010, the German team seems to always come up short. I agree with you on Cortina bringing a younger, hungrier team to the WC, and allowing those players to gain experience at the senior level, is great for the National Team. However, not icing the best possible lineup (Zepp over Grubauer, and I appreciate Zepp as well) is frustrating to watch, especially considering the missed Olympics and several below 8th place finishes at the WC.

On the bright side, the team didn't completely fall apart into relegation like 2005!
 
Great review Maverick! I know most of the NHL/AHL players didn't make it for varying reasons but are there any players in the DEL who you think could/should of been on the roster instead of some of the ones who did make it?

Sort of on that point can anyone explain to me why Kuhnhackl and Abelthauser didn't make the roster?
 
Great review Maverick! I know most of the NHL/AHL players didn't make it for varying reasons but are there any players in the DEL who you think could/should of been on the roster instead of some of the ones who did make it?

Personally, I think there would have been a couple of slightly better choices, but the only significant upgrades that were or at least might have been available, were Patrick Köppchen and Thomas Greiss.

Sort of on that point can anyone explain to me why Kuhnhackl and Abelthauser didn't make the roster?

When the team started camp Kühnhackl was still in the ECHL playoffs with the Wheeling Nailers. Also he wasn't exactly having a good season and has never played on the national team before (not counting juniors).

Abeltshauser, as far as I know, was injured.
 
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Great review Maverick! I know most of the NHL/AHL players didn't make it for varying reasons but are there any players in the DEL who you think could/should of been on the roster instead of some of the ones who did make it?

Sort of on that point can anyone explain to me why Kuhnhackl and Abelthauser didn't make the roster?

Apart from the NHL Players there were about 10 players from the DEL who declined or couldn't go for various reasons but normally should make the roster.
 

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