General coaching talk thread

[ValJamesDuex]

Hiring an old former head coach to give coaching oversight is not the type of move that would help the PP.

They need to add an assistant coach that knows how to coach an effective PP. That is a different type of move, IMO.

Keep putting words in peoples mouths. If thats what you need today to feel good go for it. Happy Holidays

 

[Jim Bob]

Keep putting words in peoples mouths. If thats what you need today to feel good go for it. Happy Holidays

So, what type of move should the Sabres make?

I don't think a 71yo senior advisor is the move. I think bringing back Bob Woods who had the Sabres PP working OK in 16-17 (1st in the NHL at 24.5%) would be a better move.

 

[Tatanka]

So the pk has been pretty good this year. It is essentially the other side of the same coin. If you can stop what others are doing, why not have that person figure out what can't be stopped and do that on the pp?

 

[Chainshot]

There was some commentary on TSN/SN that Martin is in Ottawa to put heat on DJ Smith. I'm not sure how much heat that a guy who should be retired will put on him, but it's something between-period folks on both have mentioned.

In the meantime, hunting up an adaptive PP coach should be on their radar in Buffalo. And sadly, some if it is going to be beyond just "what CHL or NCAA HC has a great PP, go get that guy" since so often those folks are the ones who also have either developed or recruited the best talent in their respective leagues.

Case in point, the Warriors in the WHL have an amazing powerplay. And that's because they have Jagger Firkus, Brayden Yager, and Denton Mateychuk out there on PP1. Similarly teams like Prince George (2nd place in the dub), Medicine Hat (3rd) or Portland (2 contract-worthy 20-year olds plus Cagnoni).

Heck, two of the best PP results in Sabre history are by coaches who have either not been able to replicate it here or elsewhere (Arneil) or have been close to league average (Woods). It's going to require a new voice or a new scheme or both or even a different set of personnel AND execution of the scheme.

 

[Chainshot]

So the pk has been pretty good this year. It is essentially the other side of the same coin. If you can stop what others are doing, why not have that person figure out what can't be stopped and do that on the pp?

I wonder if this gets into the personnel issue with the team. They don't seem to have a grasp on how to run low options deep in the zone which could be scheme. They also don't really have anyone who is good at getting to and sticking near the crease as either a close screen (for those of us old folks, thinking Andreychuk or even 2000's Hecht) or someone who can execute a drag move from below the goal to the net front (think Reinhart). Personnel-wise, they don't have that guy.

Scheme wise, it breaks down because they have a couple of guys who do not execute on the PP in a quick or crisp fashion. And one of those is someone who should very well be one of their best playmakers in Mittelstadt who spends an inordinate amount of time standing still and dusting the puck off as though he's going to break someone down at this level instead of moving the puck quickly and moving himself to open ice. Same with Skinner - who as a chaos agent is also prone to forcing plays on the PP that just aren't going to work, even if he's among their top PP producers.

Teams have adapted to stopping point-to-flank one-timers. Kevin Woodley was talking about how the numbers there are down across the league - teams have adapted to that play enough that they're stopping it. The problem is Buffalo is still trying to force that outcome with either Tage or Cozens or Olofsson as the shooter - a lack of adaptation - and at the same time haven't tried to use others in a different scheme to get potentially better results.

I won't get into how as a team, they don't go to the net at 5-on-5 so expecting that on the power play is probably folly. Nor how they don't attack on the rush on the PP when they have the opportunity even if that's how they seem to prefer to score and rather pull up to the half-wall to slow everything down into a situation that they don't perform well in with settle offense.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

I think a major issue with the PP is that most of the forwards aren't good passers. They really only have Mitts and Benson that quickly and efficiently move the puck. The others love the stupid behind the back pass or the low probability cross seam through 15 defenders

 

[Chainshot]

I think a major issue with the PP is that most of the forwards aren't good passers. They really only have Mitts and Benson that quickly and efficiently move the puck. The others love the stupid behind the back pass or the low probability cross seam through 15 defenders

Benson is probably their best bumper option at the moment with Quinn not in the lineup. I would love to see him up on PP1 to give them the shot-pass option there.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

Benson is probably their best bumper option at the moment with Quinn not in the lineup. I would love to see him up on PP1 to give them the shot-pass option there.

Unfortunately they won't do that. I loved his down low game vs the Yotes, he gave KO a couple slam dunks that weren't converted. Getting Quinn back as another cerebral player with plus passing ability will be huge

 

[Tatanka]

I wonder if this gets into the personnel issue with the team. They don't seem to have a grasp on how to run low options deep in the zone which could be scheme. They also don't really have anyone who is good at getting to and sticking near the crease as either a close screen (for those of us old folks, thinking Andreychuk or even 2000's Hecht) or someone who can execute a drag move from below the goal to the net front (think Reinhart). Personnel-wise, they don't have that guy.

Scheme wise, it breaks down because they have a couple of guys who do not execute on the PP in a quick or crisp fashion. And one of those is someone who should very well be one of their best playmakers in Mittelstadt who spends an inordinate amount of time standing still and dusting the puck off as though he's going to break someone down at this level instead of moving the puck quickly and moving himself to open ice. Same with Skinner - who as a chaos agent is also prone to forcing plays on the PP that just aren't going to work, even if he's among their top PP producers.

Teams have adapted to stopping point-to-flank one-timers. Kevin Woodley was talking about how the numbers there are down across the league - teams have adapted to that play enough that they're stopping it. The problem is Buffalo is still trying to force that outcome with either Tage or Cozens or Olofsson as the shooter - a lack of adaptation - and at the same time haven't tried to use others in a different scheme to get potentially better results.

I won't get into how as a team, they don't go to the net at 5-on-5 so expecting that on the power play is probably folly. Nor how they don't attack on the rush on the PP when they have the opportunity even if that's how they seem to prefer to score and rather pull up to the half-wall to slow everything down into a situation that they don't perform well in with settle offense.

It is much simpler. With an advantage the defender has to choose where they least want that exploited. Most will deny the center seambof the house, either the bumper or point. Buffalo continually wishes to exploit its advantage on the perimeter with a one timer. Easier to defend. Not as much movement required. With no threat of storming the crease, they shutdown the lane to the one everyone in the building is going to get the puck. On most plays they don't even contest the point shor bc it is a clear sightline.


If they would abandon the onetimer, or use it as a decoy, you can get more people and rubber in close. But the players have to be willing to go there, and...fight to stay there. Then the shorter opportunities will present themselves to all or rather the uncovered man more often. So it it is a philosophy and a choice. Rely on a skill advantage rather than the numerical physical one. Pp1 doesn't deploy the players needed to do what you and I see, pp2 doesn't have the large bones.

 

[oldgoalie]

Did Quinn make the road trip?
Assuming Tuch and Greenway did.

 

[Chainshot]

It is much simpler. With an advantage the defender has to choose where they least want that exploited. Most will deny the center seambof the house, either the bumper or point. Buffalo continually wishes to exploit its advantage on the perimeter with a one timer. Easier to defend. Not as much movement required. With no threat of storming the crease, they shutdown the lane to the one everyone in the building is going to get the puck. On most plays they don't even contest the point shor bc it is a clear sightline.


If they would abandon the onetimer, or use it as a decoy, you can get more people and rubber in close. But the players have to be willing to go there, and...fight to stay there. Then the shorter opportunities will present themselves to all or rather the uncovered man more often. So it it is a philosophy and a choice. Rely on a skill advantage rather than the numerical physical one. Pp1 doesn't deploy the players needed to do what you and I see, pp2 doesn't have the large bones.

I would even get to the basics of not holding onto the puck. So many teams are into pressure defense on the PK that holding the puck is not an option. Stick details are also often so much better at that level that attempting to make a slot or cross-slot pass from a stand-still is just not going to happen. And they stand there with the puck trying to make that play, to force that pass, a lot. Move the puck, step to the open ice, slowly shrink the box... just basics that they don't do outside of the glaring lack of net front presence or low play creation.

 

[Tatanka]

I would even get to the basics of not holding onto the puck. So many teams are into pressure defense on the PK that holding the puck is not an option. Stick details are also often so much better at that level that attempting to make a slot or cross-slot pass from a stand-still is just not going to happen. And they stand there with the puck trying to make that play, to force that pass, a lot. Move the puck, step to the open ice, slowly shrink the box... just basics that they don't do outside of the glaring lack of net front presence or low play creation.

Agreed and having a tenacious presence in front also shrinks the box. And opens up the side/back door

 

[oldgoalie]

Keep Jacques Martin far away from this organization.

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

I think a major issue with the PP is that most of the forwards aren't good passers. They really only have Mitts and Benson that quickly and efficiently move the puck. The others love the stupid behind the back pass or the low probability cross seam through 15 defenders

Bingo! Opponent PKs take away passing lanes with sticks, bodies and pursuit while Sabres have poor passers standing mostly stationary.

Frankly tho...... Dahlin and thread the needle as well as anyone. But the scheme they use doesn't offer him the opportunity to do so.

Power has been given far too much ice time on the PP.

I would even get to the basics of not holding onto the puck. So many teams are into pressure defense on the PK that holding the puck is not an option. Stick details are also often so much better at that level that attempting to make a slot or cross-slot pass from a stand-still is just not going to happen. And they stand there with the puck trying to make that play, to force that pass, a lot. Move the puck, step to the open ice, slowly shrink the box... just basics that they don't do outside of the glaring lack of net front presence or low play creation.

But standing out on the perimeter is far, far less risky.....

 

[Chainshot]

Bingo! Opponent PKs take away passing lanes with sticks, bodies and pursuit while Sabres have poor passers standing mostly stationary.

Frankly tho...... Dahlin and thread the needle as well as anyone. But the scheme they use doesn't offer him the opportunity to do so.

Power has been given far too much ice time on the PP.


But standing out on the perimeter is far, far less risky.....

Yep, not as much bruising out on the half wall.

 

[Chainshot]

A video of how the Jets are doing what they're doing.



No one expected this. And it isn't all just because Hellebuyck is playing well. They got buy in, Bowness has guys like Scheifele participating in how to play the game on his own side of center.

The other "no one saw this coming" is Vancouver. Hell, at the start of the season, the thought that they might lose EP40 if they sucked like they did last year was real. But they have had a bump and it's in how they are consistently on the right side of the puck and then they make their own luck (yes, yes, PDO blah, blah, blah... they make that happen).

 

[CaliSabresfan24]

 

[Chainshot]

An image of Varada's team winning a game.

 

[Chainshot]

 

[HOOats]

Didn't know where else to put this, but wanted to get a take on this random thing.

Is there any rule that punishes a team more than a standard minor penalty for having too many men on the ice for an extended period of time? Like once you get called for too many men, why not just stay on the ice until you recover possession.

Or say at the end of a game, trailing team puts a sixth attacker on and the leading team just throws an extra guy over the boards to help defend, delayed penalty gets called but they never you touch the puck, time expires with their lead intact.

Is there some kind of unsportsmanlike call that can rewind the clock to the time of the infraction? I seem to remember there being a penalty shot option for intentional penalties, but not sure.

 

[Ehran]

The refs normally blow the play dead as soon as they recognize too many men, so staying on the ice and proceeding accordingly isn't really an option.

 

[HOOats]

The refs normally blow the play dead as soon as they recognize too many men, so staying on the ice and proceeding accordingly isn't really an option.

Dang I guess that's right now that you mention it. Even if the opposing team has O Zone possession?

I'll have to scratch that off my list of potential hacks. Back to wanting us to periodically defend 4v5 to have a goal hanger at the far blue line to throw pucks to. Betting that the opponents wouldn't shift into an effective PP on the fly well enough to counter the breakaways we get.

 

[KeyserSoze81]

The refs normally blow the play dead as soon as they recognize too many men, so staying on the ice and proceeding accordingly isn't really an option.

And it's usually the linesmen who call it...whistle, spin your finger around like your dialing a desktop rotary phone, point to the box.

 

[Ehran]

And it's usually the linesmen who call it...whistle, spin your finger around like your dialing a desktop rotary phone, point to the box.

Add on to this that the opposing team will LOUDLY and quite happily inform the linesman about the infraction.

 

[CaliSabresfan24]