TV: Game of Thrones | Season 8 (Final) | Part XIII -TV talk ONLY -NO Books, Spoilers, NO LEAKS

[Blender]

That is how Marg controlled him, but the High Sparrow was also able to manipulate him as wel

Tywin also had him well under his control before dying as well. While that was probably a good thing for stability, Tywin wasn't exactly young so how long was that going to last? Tommen was soft and easily controlled by stronger willed people.

 

[Lshap]

For a story this large and epic, I think it should have something broader to say about leadership, but I fear you are right, and it'll focus on the particular character narratives, but not speak to the broader issue.

We'll see how the show handles it. I think the books has more room to deal with the nuance and themes, some we may get more from there.

I'll be very disappointed if the resolution of Game Of Thrones turns out to be a medieval version of The Amazing Race. I am predicting and hoping the finale makes a strong statement against aristocracies.

 

[Speyer]

Robert Baratheon was a terrible king. Jon Arryn ran and kept the kingdom together, not Robert. Despite all of Jon Arryn's efforts Robert still managed to bankrupt the crown, sow division among the major houses, and failed to bring or keep the major houses in line with the crown's interests in any way.


I don't think that is where the writers are going at all, she's clearly not insane nor is she being portrayed as insane. She's a ruthless, power hungry ruler who feels entitled to power based on her claimed destiny, she has always been this person, but her worst impulses have often been checked by others. What we're seeing is that the loss of her friends/allies and desperation are exposing her true colors.

Even if she doesn't go full mad king her character developement feels super rushed. Varys literraly goes from fully backing her to conidering to have her killed in a few episodes.

 

[Lshap]

That is how Marg controlled him, but the High Sparrow was also able to manipulate him as wel

True. But in the rock-paper-scissors of human priorities, glands beat faith.

 

[Blender]

Even if she doesn't go full mad king her character developement feels super rushed. Varys literraly goes from fully backing her to conidering to have her killed in a few episodes.

Varys looked pretty concerned about her impulses last season as well. He's launched into actual scheming because he thinks there is a better option on the table now.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I'll be very disappointed if the resolution of Game Of Thrones turns out to be a medieval version of The Amazing Race. I am predicting and hoping the finale makes a strong statement against aristocracies.

No one wins the throne it is!

 

[chicagoskycam]

Game of Thrones’ director tried to explain what happened with Ghost. It didn’t help.

Doesn't state it has anything to do with budget, it seems more like a time issue. It's almost like Ghost's scenes were an afterthought, fact is Ghost doesn't move the story forward at all.

 

[chicagoskycam]

That is how Marg controlled him, but the High Sparrow was also able to manipulate him as wel

Never liked that unless he was playing the long game along with Marg to get her brother released. I just didn't feel there was enough there to turn on Cersei. We know Marg is just playing along.

 

[Emperoreddy]

The problem with the way George writes. Especially the last couple books, is he has made it nearly impossible to get the overall narrative into a third act and eventually a conclusion.

It’s just too many characters that loosely fit together meandering about doing their own things. That’s all well and good, but if the goal is to tell a larger cohesive narrative you eventually have to cut that shit out and start closing arcs, and tying things together.

 

[The Night King]

So the NBA scheduled Game 7 between the Raptors and Sixers to overlap with Game of Thrones...

 

[Speyer]

Doesn't state it has anything to do with budget, it seems more like a time issue. It's almost like Ghost's scenes were an afterthought, fact is Ghost doesn't move the story forward at all.

Ah common it was heavily implied that that the CGI animations were to expensive for them. Beyond that the article (and others like it) shows that at least some fans (also a lot of fans of the book series) care about the wolfs. There are also many human characters who don't move the plot forward and are still valuable to the show, that should not be the only criteria. My main problem is not even that wrote the Wolf out of the show but that they were even to cheap kill him of during the battle of Winterfel wich would have been way more satisfying.

 

[Blender]

Ah common it was heavily implied that that the CGI animations were to expensive for them. Beyond that the article (and others like it) shows that at least some fans (also a lot of fans of the book series) care about the wolfs. There are also many human characters who don't move the plot forward and are still valuable to the show, that should not be the only criteria. My main problem is not even that wrote the Wolf out of the show but that they were even to cheap kill him of during the battle of Winterfel wich would have been way more satisfying.

This, in this case incorrect, assumption probably goes back to The Battle of the Bastards, where they had the time and budget to do Wun Wun or Ghost (or a reduced role for Wun Wun at expense of some Ghost), and decided Wun Wun getting more screen time was important. I just don't think they put much thought or care into Ghost this season, and they probably didn't think so many fans would react this negatively to that.

 

[Speyer]

This, in this case incorrect, assumption probably goes back to The Battle of the Bastards, where they had the time and budget to do Wun Wun or Ghost (or a reduced role for Wun Wun at expense of some Ghost), and decided Wun Wun getting more screen time was important. I just don't think they put much thought or care into Ghost this season, and they probably didn't think so many fans would react this negatively to that.

Its not that I care a whole lot, I just used it as an examplify to show how season 8 is cutting a lot of corners. FWI we live in a world, where people obsess about the question if Han Solo shot some alien first or if it was the other way around. They should have seen this comming

 

[Emperoreddy]

It’s certainly a time issue not a money issue. They have stated repeatedly over the years the wolves are a pain to make look right and work with. They most likely only stick Ghost in at this point as fan service. He was never a priority in the later seasons because he had so little importance to what was going on.

They are real animals so when they look off it’s really noticeable, compared to a fantasy dragon.

That said Ghost’s exit from the show served as a good symbolic moment for Jon. The limitations made for a more effective scene when you look at it objectively.

 

[NyQuil]

I really liked the scene where Tywin returned to King’s Landing to assume the role as Hand and took Tommen under his wing.

Cersei was bitter at being left out, but her influence was toxic and it begs the question of what would have happened if Tywin had raised the young King.

IIRC it was lessons about the rule of prior kings.

 

[Speyer]

Again they had like two years to make this season. CGI is very expensive and as you said they probably didnt value Ghost as much as some fans. Its not a huge complaint and I dont want to make to much out of it. There are a dozen worse problems this season like the stupid tactics in the battle of winterfel or nobody seeing the iron fleet behind that rock.

 

[Daisy Jane]

There is absolutely no proof of this so I don't know why it keeps getting brought up. They have two episodes to wrap up so many human characters, who gives a **** about Jon's dog. If it was so expensive for them they wouldn't have even bothered with the scenes last week. The CGI and cheap or lack of budget have no merit what so ever.

honestly, out of all the stuff the show needs to do - Jon petting Ghost goodbye is like bottom of the barrel not important.

 

[discostu]

I really liked the scene where Tywin returned to King’s Landing to assume the role as Hand and took Tommen under his wing.

Cersei was bitter at being left out, but her influence was toxic and it begs the question of what would have happened if Tywin had raised the young King.

IIRC it was lessons about the rule of prior kings.

Keep in mind that the Tyrells were already plotting to manipulate Tommen by that point. It was mainly to rid themselcss of Joffrey, but they certainly weren't going to let things go to chance on hiw he'd turn out.

It would have been interesting, but, Tommen was a blank slate at that point, and with multiple parties vying to influence him, its hard to tell how it would turn out. Especially since he was so young that he'd definitely go through phases over time.

It's interesting to remember that a the start of the books, when Ned first decided to go down to KL, was that part of the plan was to bring Bran, in the hopes he'd build a friendship with Joffrey.

Even with good intentions, there's a big desire to get into the influence of kings and heirs. Tywin would have a huge impact on him, but, his relationshio with his own kids suggest that he's fairly insensitive to the desires of the individual, and a moody teenager would likely tune out the old man eventually.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Lots of people are going to die tonight.

Can't wait!

 

[Osprey]

There’s a great thread by @Dsilvermint on twitter about plotters vs. Pantsers that really sums up why I think the series has gone the way that it has.

Basically that George is a ‘pantser’, I.e he wrote by the seat of his pants. This allowed him tobuild up characters and write a more character driven story. They fly by the seat of their pants and can end up with a meandering story that is tough to bring it together, but it feels very real and everything happens because of the choices characters make, it is not plotted out.

D&D have had to be ‘plotters’ where they have an outline plotted out and an ending where they have to get to, and they plot out the main events that take them to their ending. They essentially work backwards from their ending, this leads to a very different looking narrative than the part of the show that was ‘pantsed’.

I didn’t do the best job of explaining it so people should go read it, I’m not sure how to link things to twitter though and am on my phone.

That's a good explanation, IMO. It helps explain why the portions that Martin wrote felt more organic and real. Things developed in a believable way, without much foreshadowing or rushing. He could also introduce and kill off characters as he saw fit. Such a writing style has a load of problems (perhaps the biggest being resolution and ending), but I suppose that it worked so well early on because it seemed fresh and different from most overly scripted TV.

 

[Osprey]

I'll be very disappointed if the resolution of Game Of Thrones turns out to be a medieval version of The Amazing Race. I am predicting and hoping the finale makes a strong statement against aristocracies.

I hope that the final two episodes don't make a strong statement for or against anything. I'm tired of movie and TV writers doing that. Good writing should make viewers think for themselves, not think what you want them to think. In other words, find a way to present the issue that is different, is nuanced and encourages the viewer to come up with his or her own interpretation. As a simple example and as a few people have discussed here today, a string of awful rulers can lead some viewers to take from it that monarchy is bad and other viewers to take from it that what's needed is a kind and just monarch, like a King Jon. I'm relieved that that is one of the few things that's remained constant through 8 seasons. It would be so easy to turn a show about political scheming into a political expression, but the writers haven't done that. I hope that it keeps up for two more episodes.

 

[Daisy Jane]

It’s certainly a time issue not a money issue. They have stated repeatedly over the years the wolves are a pain to make look right and work with. They most likely only stick Ghost in at this point as fan service. He was never a priority in the later seasons because he had so little importance to what was going on.

They are real animals so when they look off it’s really noticeable, compared to a fantasy dragon.

That said Ghost’s exit from the show served as a good symbolic moment for Jon. The limitations made for a more effective scene when you look at it objectively.

I've remembered that. they were always complaining about how they couldn't make them look completely right (and then people would kvetch about that too, so i suppose there's no winning)

and that's how I saw that scene. Direwolves are Stark Sigils. Jon is separating from his Stark self thus the symbolism there.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Keep in mind that the Tyrells were already plotting to manipulate Tommen by that point. It was mainly to rid themselcss of Joffrey, but they certainly weren't going to let things go to chance on hiw he'd turn out.

It would have been interesting, but, Tommen was a blank slate at that point, and with multiple parties vying to influence him, its hard to tell how it would turn out. Especially since he was so young that he'd definitely go through phases over time.

It's interesting to remember that a the start of the books, when Ned first decided to go down to KL, was that part of the plan was to bring Bran, in the hopes he'd build a friendship with Joffrey.

Even with good intentions, there's a big desire to get into the influence of kings and heirs. Tywin would have a huge impact on him, but, his relationshio with his own kids suggest that he's fairly insensitive to the desires of the individual, and a moody teenager would likely tune out the old man eventually.

Cersei was right to be upset in that scene. Tywin was starting to manipulate Tommen while his brother’s corpse was still warm.

The whole point of that lesson was to start greasing Tommen to basically always defer to Tywin on anything and everything. It comes across as grandfatherly and wise, but it’s really highly manipulative.

 

[Blender]

Cersei was right to be upset in that scene. Tywin was starting to manipulate Tommen while his brother’s corpse was still warm.

The whole point of that lesson was to start greasing Tommen to basically always defer to Tywin on anything and everything. It comes across as grandfatherly and wise, but it’s really highly manipulative.

He also did it next to Joffrey's corpse to make the point that Tommen should listen to him or end up the same.

 

[Daisy Jane]

He also did it next to Joffrey's corpse to make the point that Tommen should listen to him or end up the same.

mhm
While it was manipulation, i think we have to remember that Tywin was also trying to impart some wisdom to Jof. he was just too far gone to take any of it.