GDT: Game 77: Columbus vs. New York Islanders | 4/2 7PM EDT

[JacketsDavid]

I wouldn't want the facts to stand in the way of your opinion, but did you know that Ryan Johansen is 11th in overall scoring in the NHL and Rick Nash has never finished higher than 18th (2008-09)?

I didn't think so

Odd watching SC at gym this am and Nash has 41 goals (I think was the stat) and our old friends 9Gabby and Carter) are also 25+.
Nash is a better goal scorer than 99% of the players in the NHL (outside of Ovi, he's right near the top).
I am often torn if assists are because of teammates, lack of confidence to shoot, blind luck or great vision/anticipation. What ever it is because of that is where many guys pass Nash on the points/game list.

But fun game to be at last night. Islanders are a good team and they were faster than us for 2.5 periods. But last 10 minutes or so the Jackets played well. The 4-3 power play may have been the best PP I have seen the Jackets execute in a long time, no they didn't score but they were in possession of the puck for entire 2 minutes, did not allow the Islanders to get in a fresh line. That was nice to see.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

And he's the nicest guy you would ever want to hang with. He's another guy that takes hate for no reason.

Dude stop it. No one "hates" dancing Kevin. But IMO that spiel is as tired and un-entertaining as the chili chant. Certainly you understand distaste for the chili chant. I'm sure he's a nice dude. So is Rimer (speaking of tired and un-entertaining).

And since I'm hating stuff, I will also mention I hate Boll, Richards, Morin, Dano, Letestu, the shootout, tanking, winning meaningless games, pale Jack Johnson, sandwiches, Post-It notes and formica.

(Disclaimer - I may or may not actually hate any/all of those things.)

 

[spintheblackcircle]

You also think Boll loses more fights than he wins, so I feel like I have to take everything you say with a grain of salt.

hockeyfights.com user votes show Boll has 9 wins, 1 loss and 5 draws in his fights this year.

 

[Derby]

Dude stop it. No one "hates" dancing Kevin. But IMO that spiel is as tired and un-entertaining as the chili chant. Certainly you understand distaste for the chili chant. I'm sure he's a nice dude. So is Rimer (speaking of tired and un-entertaining).

And since I'm hating stuff, I will also mention I hate Boll, Richards, Morin, Dano, Letestu, the shootout, tanking, winning meaningless games, pale Jack Johnson, sandwiches, Post-It notes and formica.

(Disclaimer - I may or may not actually hate any/all of those things.)

Actually, I kinda do hate him (his "performance" ~ any how). It's more like I am embarrassed by him and tired of the same old same old. I was never a Chris Farley fan, either. Same kind of entertainment, IMO. I don't like that type of thing, I am embarrassed for him and by him. Gross. Any time you seek that kind of public attention, you shouldn't be defensive about the critical reaction of some people subjected to it.

I get he's a nice guy. By all anecdotal indications, he is an outstanding person. I might love him in real life, but never have been entertained by his performance.

Edit: Indifferent to Boll, Morin, and sandwiches. Love Richards, Letestu and Jack Johnson (pale or rosey cheeked) the shootout, Dano, and winning games of all sorts. Formica is bad, really bad. Tanking is the worst.

 

[Samkow]

You. Play. To. Win. The. Game.

This move doesn't signal to 99% of the people with common sense that HCTR/JK/JD/whoever made this decision is trying to win the game.

For a season with no playoffs, one of the few reasons to follow the team and go to the games is to see the development of the young guys.

HCTR, for better or worse, will be the coach next season. If he's making questionable at best decisions now, what's he going to decide to do next year when the playoffs are hopefully in view?

You were really pissed that we were winning as recently as a few games ago.

Which is it?

 

[DarkandStormy]

You were really pissed that we were winning as recently as a few games ago.

Which is it?

First off, it's called sarcasm. The only thing I've said over the last month about winning has been in a joking manner about ruining draft position. Nice try. (That is also completely irrelevant to the coaching decision by HCTR, so your question makes no sense)

Secondly, why are you coming at me about it? The team (coaches, management, etc.) is supposed to be icing the best possible lineup. As a fan, I can react to those decisions, especially when EVERY STATISTIC AVAILABLE points to Dano giving the team a better chance to win than Boll.

Thirdly, sorry. I'll just keep my thoughts to myself and not discuss anything related to the CBJ until it "matters." I'll basically just be the Dispatch of the board and not question anything the team does. How does that sound?

 

[blahblah]

Johansen can be a 90 point player, Nash at his best is 75-80. Joey is more of a natural scorer than Nash ever was or has been, at least from what I've seen...

Statistically there is no evidence to support your opinion on Johansen's peak total. Johansen's entire improvement in point production is based on 2 minutes more of ice time per game. He hasn't come close to approaching the PROD numbers that would be required to reach 90 points (sub-20 minute).

There was actually little improvement in Johansen's totals this season. Our PP improved and that translated to half his increase in assists.

He's going to need to get more shots on goal moving forward.

I appreciate your support of Johansen, but I don't there is much to go on here other than gut feel and a bit of homerism. Sure, Johansen could improve more but I'm not sure we're going to see it move up into that franchise player level required to get that kind of production. Keep in mind that is questionable that any player will reach 90 points this season and not one, other than Crosby, did it last season.

I like Johansen, but that's quite a stretch.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Statistically there is no evidence to support your opinion on Johansen's peak total. Johansen's entire improvement in point production is based on 2 minutes more of ice time per game. He hasn't come close to approaching the PROD numbers that would be required to reach 90 points (sub-20 minute).

There was actually little improvement in Johansen's totals this season. Our PP improved and that translated to half his increase in assists.

He is on pace to score 17% more points than last year, that's a significant increase. If he does that next year, that would be 87 points. And he's 22.

 

[blahblah]

He is on pace to score 17% more points than last year, that's a significant increase. If he does that next year, that would be 87 points. And he's 22.

Spin, that would require more than an additional 2 minutes more of ice time per game. Are we start going to play Johansen 22+ minutes a night? Even at 22 minutes a night he would still be at 82 points.

Remember his production per minute didn't increase much (statistically close to neutral). Your 17% increase was based on increased ice time only - not doing more with that ice time.

I suppose it's possible, but your now putting Johansen in with Crosby and Malkin. Not even a guy like Stamkos is doing that now. Is this even a fair expectation to put on the kid. Scoring is going down again. Isn't it enough that He's around the top 10 in scoring?

As far as being more talented than Nash, maybe a bit - but it's not a large difference.

 

[DarkandStormy]

Nash finally matched his goal production from '03-'04...last night.

Even if Joey is "just" a 70 point guy, that's still pretty damn good.

 

[ca5150]

Boll doesn't have a point since February 13th and is good enough to play 7 minutes a game. Let him sit out and learn in the press box some more.

I bet you complain that the linebacker for your football team doesn't throw more touchdowns too don't you?

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Spin, that would require more than an additional 2 minutes more of ice time per game. Are we start going to play Johansen 22+ minutes a night? Even at 22 minutes a night he would still be at 82 points.

Remember his production per minute didn't increase much (statistically close to neutral). Your 17% increase was based on increased ice time only - not doing more with that ice time..

12% ice time increase, 17% point increase. And his shooting percentage actually went down.

I also feel that with improved players around him, his output will increase.

 

[blahblah]

Nash finally matched his goal production from '03-'04...last night.

Interesting to note, but he did have 40 and 38 goal seasons. His 40 goal season was in 78 games.

If Joey wants to be a 35 goal scorer, he's going to have to get much closer to 300 SoG's. Doing so would probably reduce is assist total as Johansen obviously isn't in the same league of the elite play-makers yet. Not sure he'll ever be. With Joey, in order to start getting those type of numbers we're going to have to get far more offensive zone time for his line.

Wennberg is looking more and more like that play making center we've been looking for since the inception of this team.

 

[ca5150]

Dude stop it. No one "hates" dancing Kevin. But IMO that spiel is as tired and un-entertaining as the chili chant. Certainly you understand distaste for the chili chant. I'm sure he's a nice dude. So is Rimer (speaking of tired and un-entertaining).

And since I'm hating stuff, I will also mention I hate Boll, Richards, Morin, Dano, Letestu, the shootout, tanking, winning meaningless games, pale Jack Johnson, sandwiches, Post-It notes and formica.

(Disclaimer - I may or may not actually hate any/all of those things.)

How could you hate Post-It notes?? I love the smell of a fresh pack of Post-It notes right when you open them, fan them in front of your face and enjoy

 

[Socks]

Dude stop it. No one "hates" dancing Kevin. But IMO that spiel is as tired and un-entertaining as the chili chant. Certainly you understand distaste for the chili chant. I'm sure he's a nice dude. So is Rimer (speaking of tired and un-entertaining).

And since I'm hating stuff, I will also mention I hate Boll, Richards, Morin, Dano, Letestu, the shootout, tanking, winning meaningless games, pale Jack Johnson, sandwiches, Post-It notes and formica.

(Disclaimer - I may or may not actually hate any/all of those things.)

You can say what you want about Boll, Richards, Morin and the rest of them. But I'll be DAMNED if I'm going to sit back and let you bash formica.

 

[DarkandStormy]

I bet you complain that the linebacker for your football team doesn't throw more touchdowns too don't you?

I'm sorry, does scoring more goals than the other team still win hockey games?

Every statistic available, advanced, enhanced, whatever shows that Boll does little to contribute to scoring and does little to stopping the opposition from scoring. They say the opposite about Dano.

Cute insult, though.

 

[blahblah]

12% ice time increase, 17% point increase. And his shooting percentage actually went down.

I also feel that with improved players around him, his output will increase.

13.9 to 13.3 isn't going "down". At a 22 minute prod (in that range both years), he has to play 22 minutes a night to reach 82 points. Either than or he needs to start producing at an under 20 minute rate. Those are Crosby like numbers, even a Getzlaf doesn't do that consistently (around half the time); thus why he's had 1 90 point season - although last season was close.

For you to get there he is going to need to play 21+ minutes a night and produce around a 19 minute PROD. Even that will barely get him there.

Part of his increase was also based on our team improving on the PP. The team is unlikely get much more of a bump. Close to 30 points is a pretty reasonable peak for him on the PP. So his increase would likely have to come from 5 on 5 play.

He's 22 so there is room, but your stats you are attempting to use don't really scale.

Improved line mates is a red herring used by fans everywhere. The truly elite players improve their line mates, not they them. An example is Crosby. He inflates others numbers, they don't inflate his. Playing Malkin with Crosby really didn't do much more than playing with Neal, if anything and Malkin is a far superior player. We could probably get a better RW, Clarkson might actually be great with Joey. Atkinson is more of a transition player. With our midgets Calvert is actually the better of the 2 forecheckers.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

He's 22 so there is room, but your stats you are attempting to use don't really scale.

He's the youngest player in the top 30 in scoring, and he's 11th. I think it's safe to say he has room.

 

[blahblah]

He's the youngest player in the top 30 in scoring, and he's 11th. I think it's safe to say he has room.

Why did you quote me saying the same thing I did? Do you have an argument for what I stated or are you going to hang you that on stats that aren't going to continue to scale based on the history we have before us?

 

[EDM]

Jenner-Johanson-Atkinson is a good line with the perfect mix of skills. I hope TR keeps it together next year.

 

[blahblah]

Jenner-Johanson-Atkinson is a good line with the perfect mix of skills. I hope TR keeps it together next year.

I'd rather get a better forchecker on the RW.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Why did you quote me saying the same thing I did? Do you have an argument for what I stated or are you going to hang you that on stats that aren't going to continue to scale based on the history we have before us?

Because only 1 player in the top 10 in scoring had their best year prior to the age of 22, and that's Crosby. Average age of their best scoring year is 24 1/2, so the history of the top 10 scorers show RyJo should be hitting his peak in 2-3 years, not now.

 

[blahblah]

Because only 1 player in the top 10 in scoring had their best year prior to the age of 22, and that's Crosby. Average age of their best scoring year is 24 1/2, so the history of the top 10 scorers show RyJo should be hitting his peak in 2-3 years, not now.

Yet, I've given what he need to do to reach those totals and given you examples of players that produce that those levels (basically no one now). We somehow think that Johansen is to the level of Crosby (the only player close to do it now, at least consistently)?

PPG seems a reasonable possibility.

 

[ReggieRed]

Boy, as someone who is new to HFBoards this year, it seems that the better we play, the more surly these threads get. We're on an eight-game winning steak, and its chippier than ever. I can't wait until we win out...it will be a frikin' riot!

 

[NotWendell]

How could you hate Post-It notes?? I love the smell of a fresh pack of Post-It notes right when you open them, fan them in front of your face and enjoy

Yeah, what's next?!? They gonna start hating on the smell of fresh, crisp $20 bills from the ATM?!?