GDT: Game 7: Ducks @ Coyotes - 7PM - FSAZ - Chayka in Jail Edition

[The Feckless Puck]

lol, I’m not bitching. As I said, I get putting him out there and giving him a lot of minutes during the game, but I’m not sure it’s the best idea to put somebody THAT wet behind the ears out in a situation where we need to score to survive.

Normally, you probably wouldn't put him out there - but Gross was the only guy out there actually aggressively driving into the offensive zone on every shift. Didn't get much for his effort but I liked the hustle.

 

[BUX7PHX]

and it would have been the right thing to do if we had been able to lock Hall to an extension, but just trading those prime assets for a small % chance of him resigning isn't good management, it's dumb management. The extension had to be a part of the deal, otherwise, it was a stupid deal.

So, if we have the anticipated success that we may have, picks in the 16-30 range are going to wind up as valuable or more valuable than what Hall would be?

I understand that in a perfect world, the extension would have been agreed to well ahead of the deal. But that ups the price significantly, and was why qe put the conditional agreements in where if Hall re-signs or we win in the 1st round, we only owe a 2nd. If both happen, then it becomes a 1st.

If we were to have continued playing at a high level and maintained being in the top 2 of the Pacific and managed to win the 1st round series, I guarantee we are the front-runner for Hall.

The 1st that was lost for next year was lost because of the testing issues, and was in no way related to Hall re-signing or not. You are arguing the difference between a 2021 2nd and 1st for signing a player long term (or a 3rd to a 2nd, at the least). That is nothing for 5-7 years of an elite player.

It looks worse because people can't separate that the loss of our 1st round pick this year had nothing to do with Hall. Had that not happened, we would be looking at Merkley, Bahl, 2020 1st and 2021 3rd. Again, that is not much to give up, and if we see success that makes that 3rd turn into a 2nd or 1st - that success directly translates into re-signing Hall. A late 1st was given up for players like Paul Gaustad, as an example. The price appears worse because of the testing punishment.

 

[Jakey53]

lol, I’m not bitching. As I said, I get putting him out there and giving him a lot of minutes during the game, but I’m not sure it’s the best idea to put somebody THAT wet behind the ears out in a situation where we need to score to survive.

Demers, Gogo and Hammer have zero goals and one assist in total. Oesterle, who is a third pairing Dman on a good team has one goal, more than those three combines. Like I said, the vets are not doing their job, may as well throw a kid in their and give him some experience.

 

[Jakey53]

Gross isn't really a kid. He's already 25. This is the finished product.

At 25 and a D he may have some more upside, but Demers, Gogo and Hammer are also a finished product, as in done like dinner., or close to it. What you see is what we are getting. Some are saying let them play they will get their game back (where have I heard that before). I saw this coming last year, but most thought our D was solid.

 

[Jakey53]

Normally, you probably wouldn't put him out there - but Gross was the only guy out there actually aggressively driving into the offensive zone on every shift. Didn't get much for his effort but I liked the hustle.

Hit the nail on the head.

 

[Mosby]

I thought the D was fine last night. Goose didn't do anything stupid. Gross looked good too.

 

[Neighborhood Coyote]

Demers, Gogo and Hammer have zero goals and one assist in total. Oesterle, who is a third pairing Dman on a good team has one goal, more than those three combines. Like I said, the vets are not doing their job, may as well throw a kid in their and give him some experience.

To be fair, Oesterle's goal was an empty netter set up by Crouse. Seems a bit of a stretch to point at it as him producing more than those 3. But I do agree they've all sucked at producing, no doubt about that.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Like the vets are getting the job done. Last year we bitched that they wouldn't play Hayton, no you bitch when they play Gross. It's not as if Gogo, Demers and Hammer are killing it.

I agree with the sentiment, but Hammer has played very well.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I thought the D was fine last night. Goose didn't do anything stupid. Gross looked good too.

Desperate need for OEL on pp though.

 

[Jakey53]

I thought the D was fine last night. Goose didn't do anything stupid. Gross looked good too.

Goose is good on the PK, but he is suppose to be an offensive Dman. We need points from him, especially when OEL is down.

 

[Jakey53]

Desperate need for OEL on pp though.

The same OEL that most on these boards wanted him traded last year?

 

[Coyotedroppings]

So, if we have the anticipated success that we may have, picks in the 16-30 range are going to wind up as valuable or more valuable than what Hall would be?

I understand that in a perfect world, the extension would have been agreed to well ahead of the deal. But that ups the price significantly, and was why qe put the conditional agreements in where if Hall re-signs or we win in the 1st round, we only owe a 2nd. If both happen, then it becomes a 1st.

If we were to have continued playing at a high level and maintained being in the top 2 of the Pacific and managed to win the 1st round series, I guarantee we are the front-runner for Hall.

The 1st that was lost for next year was lost because of the testing issues, and was in no way related to Hall re-signing or not. You are arguing the difference between a 2021 2nd and 1st for signing a player long term (or a 3rd to a 2nd, at the least). That is nothing for 5-7 years of an elite player.

It looks worse because people can't separate that the loss of our 1st round pick this year had nothing to do with Hall. Had that not happened, we would be looking at Merkley, Bahl, 2020 1st and 2021 3rd. Again, that is not much to give up, and if we see success that makes that 3rd turn into a 2nd or 1st - that success directly translates into re-signing Hall. A late 1st was given up for players like Paul Gaustad, as an example. The price appears worse because of the testing punishment.

Well the same idiot that made the trade allowed the testing and we don’t have Hall. Seems like it’s a dead issue, that only you insist on ringing up.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Demers, Gogo and Hammer have zero goals and one assist in total. Oesterle, who is a third pairing Dman on a good team has one goal, more than those three combines. Like I said, the vets are not doing their job, may as well throw a kid in their and give him some experience.

Hammer isn’t here as a scoring threat.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

The same OEL that most on these boards wanted him traded last year?

Yes

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

Fellas, the same problem we've had for years is the same problem we have now. Our best current center is Dvorak and he's a #3 on any team in the league. Until we can get Centers who can produce above a 50pt clip, it doesn't matter what wingers you put with this group, they're not going to be able to put goals in the net. That is just the way that it is.

Which is why I'd keep giving Hayton a lot of mins, because the quicker he can surpass Dvorak the better the team will be. We need better centers. Until this gets addressed, we will be mired in obscurity.

 

[SCT]

Gross isn't really a kid. He's already 25. This is the finished product.

You have to remember that was his first game in 11 months. If he was a forward I would agree with you, but defensemen usually develop much, much later.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Well the same idiot that made the trade allowed the testing and we don’t have Hall. Seems like it’s a dead issue, that only you insist on ringing up.

Think about what you are suggesting here. No one scout in Europe or Russia was accused of the same things.

So, there are 2 scenarios: either Chayka had a meeting with ALL scouts and presented how we were going to evaluate players (where all scouts except one ignored this decision and no one brought up that what was being done could be outside of the rule book)

OR

We had a scout who thought that this was what was done normally. Considering this person was a strength and conditioning coach, maybe he told Chayka that he understood the rules for scouting, and then dosobeyed them.

Which sounds more plausible?

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Think about what you are suggesting here. No one scout in Europe or Russia was accused of the same things.

So, there are 2 scenarios: either Chayka had a meeting with ALL scouts and presented how we were going to evaluate players (where all scouts except one ignored this decision and no one brought up that what was being done could be outside of the rule book)

OR

We had a scout who thought that this was what was done normally. Considering this person was a strength and conditioning coach, maybe he told Chayka that he understood the rules for scouting, and then dosobeyed them.

Which sounds more plausible?

Third option: GMJC didn't have a handle on what was happening.
Look I liked some of what he did, but your love of him is borderline disturbing and I don't understand why you don't give it a rest.

Edit: He's long gone, time to give it a rest.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Third option: GMJC didn't have a handle on what was happening.
Look I liked some of what he did, but your love of him is borderline disturbing and I don't understand why you don't give it a rest.

Edit: He's long gone, time to give it a rest.

That ties into the 2nd option. Chayka had been GM for 3 years now, yet last year was the first year that any complaint had been brought up.

To me, that suggests that he uad meetings with scouts and staff, where each has a copy of rules pertaining to what scouts can and can't do. He asked if everyone read and understood what to do. Each one answered, "Yes," but one of them lied and collected data outside of the scope.

That in no way implies that Chayka does not bear some responsibility. But there is a clear difference if Chayka directed scouts to do this vs a scout that did this under the radar and Chayka (as well as others) were unaware that this was what a rogue individual was doing.

To me, Chayka is no different than most other GMs. They have a plan that they see through. If it involves something illegal or a bad decision, of course they are on the hook for it. However, this does not look like a situation where the GM had this as a plan all along. Instead, it looks like a scout went ahead with a direction of their choosing. I can't guarantee that to be the case, but i think that this would have presented itself in year 1 or 2, if it had been going on for that long, and reports would have surfaced well before 2019.

 

[Mosby]

Now I'm just curious what happens, if anything, if we get shut out for a 3rd straight game.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

That ties into the 2nd option. Chayka had been GM for 3 years now, yet last year was the first year that any complaint had been brought up.

To me, that suggests that he uad meetings with scouts and staff, where each has a copy of rules pertaining to what scouts can and can't do. He asked if everyone read and understood what to do. Each one answered, "Yes," but one of them lied and collected data outside of the scope.

That in no way implies that Chayka does not bear some responsibility. But there is a clear difference if Chayka directed scouts to do this vs a scout that did this under the radar and Chayka (as well as others) were unaware that this was what a rogue individual was doing.

To me, Chayka is no different than most other GMs. They have a plan that they see through. If it involves something illegal or a bad decision, of course they are on the hook for it. However, this does not look like a situation where the GM had this as a plan all along. Instead, it looks like a scout went ahead with a direction of their choosing. I can't guarantee that to be the case, but i think that this would have presented itself in year 1 or 2, if it had been going on for that long, and reports would have surfaced well before 2019.

A COLLOSAL leap of faith.

 

[Jakey53]

Hammer isn’t here as a scoring threat.

Now I'm just curious what happens, if anything, if we get shut out for a 3rd straight game.

That's impossible, especially against a team that was suppose to miss the playoffs.

 

[Jakey53]

Fellas, the same problem we've had for years is the same problem we have now. Our best current center is Dvorak and he's a #3 on any team in the league. Until we can get Centers who can produce above a 50pt clip, it doesn't matter what wingers you put with this group, they're not going to be able to put goals in the net. That is just the way that it is.

Which is why I'd keep giving Hayton a lot of mins, because the quicker he can surpass Dvorak the better the team will be. We need better centers. Until this gets addressed, we will be mired in obscurity.

We need talent, period. We have holes at every position.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

We need talent, period. We have holes at every position.

True, but it matters to get the C's in place, everything else revolves around that. We brought in Hall (League MVP), did it make a difference? Nope! The C position has to be addressed first, that's all I'm saying.

 

[ParisSaintGermain]

Nice that Kuemper (he is such a great goalie) and the D have been holding two teams with only 1 goal conceded on consecutive games; bravo to Oesterle for working well with his rotating partners.

Like most I am far from convinced about Tocchet and some of his lines adjustments last night feel like a bit of a set back in comparison to the first few games; worst ,still, is that he seemed to revert back to his old/past seasons instincts as the game progressed.

Anyway we have $19.8M tied up in three offensive players (Kessel, Schmaltz, Keller) and I think it is reasonable to expect a lot more from them, particularly as there have been some really messed up breakaway chances where top players should be able to capitalise.

Obviously that one elusive goal would make an unbelievable difference in those games.