Post-Game Talk: GAME 50 - Winterpeg wins the shootout - Jets 4 BRUINS 3 F/SO

[GloryDaze4877]

Scheif >>>>> Krejci
Wheeler >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whomever

Connor also averages 3 more minutes per game than DeBrusk.

Obviously impossible to do, but fun to speculate what JDB’s stat line would look like playing with those two.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Was looking at our UFA/RFA list. I remember a year ago thinking this was going to be a brutal bunch of contracts to hand out. Now?

Charlie: 4.5m?
Carlo: 3m?
Heinen: lol?
Cehlarik: can't be much of a concern
Chara: might retire?

We're going to have cap space

How awesome would it be if the B’s can lock these guys up on Cap friendly deals after down years for most of the RFA’s and they rebound.

Win-win.

A guy can dream.

 

[Marcobruin]

Ok great those are the 3 picks you take. Now you've just shuffled every teams draft board and every pick after those three is a complete unknown. What does that mean exactly, well the following guys are now potentially not in the system or on the team

Jake DeBrusk
Brandon Carlo
Charlie McAvoy
Jeremy Lauzon
Trent Frederic
Urho Vaakanainen
Jack Studnicka

Oh but it doesn't stop there, now take out every move post the 2015 draft because again its unknown what teams would have done. What's our roster maybe look like now?

Marchand - Bergeron - Pastrnak
Connor - Krejci - ???
Heinen - Barzal - ???
Kuraly - ??? - Acciari

Chara - Grz
Chabot - ???
Krug - Miller

Rask
???

Then of course there is a crazy concept that a player wouldn't perform the same because its different line-mates, different situations, different systems, different everything. So while you're thinking about those guys and what they are doing for their team now, well that might be different if they were here. They could be better, but could be worse. Look at a guy like William Karlsson, he had 47pts in 165 games for Columbus...he goes to Vegas and has 110pts in 134 games. That's nearly a 300% increase in his P/GP just from going from one team to another.

As you can see its quite the rabbit hole you can go down and wonder about the infinite possibilities of "dreamin" as you like to say.

This 2015 first draft incompetence cannot be justified and imo it should not be. As I mentioned had he drafted those said players DS would be treated like a genius.
Now he will be treated as incompetent in this draft (I have no desire to sugar coat with loads of sugar)
Im sure that any hockey fan would rather have Barzal Connor Chabot over seny Zboril lauzon and even maybe at the chscha of not having Carlo and Debrusk
I'd take Chabot Who may be a star and of course what else we need to say for Barzal and Connor(who did really well btw when scheifele was injured)
Just to say DS overall in his drafting and signings has done a mediocre job at best.. it is only results that count, bottom lines everything else is talk.

 

[ON3M4N]

This 2015 first draft incompetence cannot be justified and imo it should not be. As I mentioned had he drafted those said players DS would be treated like a genius.
Now he will be treated as incompetent in this draft (I have no desire to sugar coat with loads of sugar)
Im sure that any hockey fan would rather have Barzal Connor Chabot over seny Zboril lauzon and even maybe at the chscha of not having Carlo and Debrusk
I'd take Chabot Who may be a star and of course what else we need to say for Barzal and Connor(who did really well btw when scheifele was injured)
Just to say DS overall in his drafting and signings has done a mediocre job at best.. it is only results that count, bottom lines everything else is talk.

Not justifying anything, just point out the giant rabbit hole

I personally don't dwell on the 2015 draft because no matter how much you want to talk about it, it wont change a damn thing lol. But hey to each their own. You like to dream about a draft from 3 almost 4 years ago and some (like myself) rather look at what we actually have in reality and focus on what we need to be cup contenders.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

Only 1st line scoring again. Come on Sweeney..................do something

Offer LA like a 2nd, future 3rd, Senshyn and Heinen for Toffli

are you out of your f***ing mind?

Heinen alone only has 2 fewer goals than Toffoli and 7 fewer points.

 

[Marcobruin]

Not justifying anything, just point out the giant rabbit hole

I personally don't dwell on the 2015 draft because no matter how much you want to talk about it, it wont change a damn thing lol. But hey to each their own. You like to dream about a draft from 3 almost 4 years ago and some (like myself) rather look at what we actually have in reality and focus on what we need to be cup contenders.

That's the thing ...we aren't cup contenders and too many pieces are required for us to be .
However had DS drafted more competently instead of trying to look like a genius in drafting Seny a player who wasn't pegged as a first rder maybe just maybe we'd be a cup contender.
Now maybe you're ok with that
But I am not..
I used the word dream but it didn't have to be it was in our bruins mgmt hands....they blew it... Can't stop dwelling on it eventhough it cannot be changed. I also believe the more we dwell as fans then changes are made .If we suck it up and just let it go ....safe to say things don't change.. Complacency never brings upon changes

 

[GloryDaze4877]

are you out of your ****ing mind?

Heinen alone only has 2 fewer goals than Toffoli and 7 fewer points.

Not only that, but 1g and 3a have come for Toffoli in the last 5 games.

He and Heinen are having similarly bad seasons, but Heinen is younger and will be a lot cheaper going forward.

 

[Over the volcano]

This 2015 first draft incompetence cannot be justified and imo it should not be. As I mentioned had he drafted those said players DS would be treated like a genius.
Now he will be treated as incompetent in this draft (I have no desire to sugar coat with loads of sugar)
Im sure that any hockey fan would rather have Barzal Connor Chabot over seny Zboril lauzon and even maybe at the chscha of not having Carlo and Debrusk
I'd take Chabot Who may be a star and of course what else we need to say for Barzal and Connor(who did really well btw when scheifele was injured)
Just to say DS overall in his drafting and signings has done a mediocre job at best.. it is only results that count, bottom lines everything else is talk.

Fine, then look at his whole draft record rather than one round.

 

[Marcobruin]

Connor also averages 3 more minutes per game than DeBrusk.

Obviously impossible to do, but fun to speculate what JDB’s stat line would look like playing with those two.

Connor played very well when Sch was hurt. Krejci was on fire with march and pastr. as much as i like jake . i try to be objective . connor is the better player
At this point. Any team would offer more for him then Jake. And i must say this sophmore jinx crap is starting to frustrate me. Is connor immune to the sophmore jinx.?
Does Debrincat have a sophmore jinx protection shield???
Lets hope Jake gets out of this fast ...we cant have him be non productive we have too many players on this team that have those "privileges"

 

[ON3M4N]

That's the thing ...we aren't cup contenders and too many pieces are required for us to be .
However had DS drafted more competently instead of trying to look like a genius in drafting Seny a player who wasn't pegged as a first rder maybe just maybe we'd be a cup contender.
Now maybe you're ok with that
But I am not..
I used the word dream but it didn't have to be it was in our bruins mgmt hands....they blew it... Can't stop dwelling on it eventhough it cannot be changed. I also believe the more we dwell as fans then changes are made .If we suck it up and just let it go ....safe to say things don't change.. Complacency never brings upon changes

Are we cup contenders right now? nope, but were a few pieces away from being there IMO. That's a different discussion for a different thread though.

Again to each their own on the whole 2015 draft stuff. I get it, its a hot button issue for some folks and that's why we have a thread dedicated solely to that draft (see link below). Oddly enough those folks that are most bothered by that draft haven't posted in there for quite some time and instead use any small door they can to bring it up in other threads.

The Player(s) that Got Away 2015 Draft - or ALL prior draft discussion here

With all that being said, enjoy wondering what could have been and letting a single draft consume the time you spend talking about (what I imagine) your favorite team. I'm bowing out of this conversation now because IMO its a waste of time

 

[Marcobruin]

Fine, then look at his whole draft record rather than one round.

All right ...lets look at it
We have mcavoy .. Who looked great and elite but has spent most of his time on the injury list. Hes also been imo a good d but certainly not a star D. I think we are myself included over valuing him at this point
Carlo is a good dman ..purely defensive guy who has little to no offense .
At this point not one player DS has drafted has been a real impactful player or one has consistenly impacted the team.
Again do not forget DS had 3 very high picks in the first rd in 2015.. For me, this dampens the other picks.. What he missed out on is inexcusable

 

[TCB]

Chara worries me. Prefer Moore with Charlie

I still feel the defense needs an upgrade. The right side with McAvoy and Carlo leading the way is pretty sound giving Grizz can play the off side extremely well and then you have Miller, and Moore can also play there but he's much better on the left side.

The left-side is where I feel needs some fixing.

Chara's for all the smarts, his reach, and strength he's a liability to speed and quickness. Krug is so under-rated here. He's an offensive catalyst and plays his heart out defensively, but he will easily get out manned in the corners and behind the net and come playoff time, teams will be dumping the puck into his corner and banging the hell out of him in an attempt to wear him down. Grizz is in the same boat as Krug as far as his weaknesses but he's like krug and can turn defense into offense in a hurry. Moore is Moore, he looks good at times but he's a 5-6. I wouldn't want him in my top 4.

My concern is the left-side come playoff time, they need a stout defensive defenseman over there, one who can also win those battles in the corners and punish the other teams forwards for going there.

I don't know if this is on Sweeney to-do list or not, as the bruins play a great team defensive game and he may feel that's enough and wants to add an impactful forward first and foremost,but I sure would like to see a top 4 left side d-man added as well.

 

[BigBear83]

I know, I know its beating a dead horse but NHL NETWORK tonight decided to show everyone's Sweeney great draft year of 2015 in having three straight picks right before Barzal and Connor were taken. So suck-it up Sweeney Supporters when you miss that bad its not going away.

while i agree. lets not forget that for some reason boston can not seem to develop offensive talents.. connor was roughly the same talent level as bjork and donato coming out of college.. who's to say that he would be the same player he is now if he was on boston.. i think that boston needs to hire a coach that can work the offensive side of the game rather than just professional grinders (pandolfo, leach, whitfield) savvy wants to coach, bring him in..

 

[Marcobruin]

Are we cup contenders right now? nope, but were a few pieces away from being there IMO. That's a different discussion for a different thread though.

Again to each their own on the whole 2015 draft stuff. I get it, its a hot button issue for some folks and that's why we have a thread dedicated solely to that draft (see link below). Oddly enough those folks that are most bothered by that draft haven't posted in there for quite some time and instead use any small door they can to bring it up in other threads.

The Player(s) that Got Away 2015 Draft - or ALL prior draft discussion here

With all that being said, enjoy wondering what could have been and letting a single draft consume the time you spend talking about (what I imagine) your favorite team. I'm bowing out of this conversation now because IMO its a waste of time

Maybe youre referring to me ..never noticed that thread and frankly is quite normal to get in this concersation hot from the topic especially when we see a kid like Connor.

Ah the ole "waste of time" sidetracker. ...as opposed to what? Like any of these conversations including yours brings about changes to the team??? Spare me man..
News flash.. All of these forum discussions are trivial ...This particular one is one you just do not like or accept.
Maybe we should report that aforementioned thread as a time waster. So we can better distribute our much precious forum discussion time elsewhere

 

[BruinDust]

Not only that, but 1g and 3a have come for Toffoli in the last 5 games.

He and Heinen are having similarly bad seasons, but Heinen is younger and will be a lot cheaper going forward.

Toffoli IMO would be a cheaper acquisition than the price Toronto paid for Muzzin.

Compare the two.

Signed for this year and next. Similar cap hits (4.0 and 4.6 AAV).

Muzzin was having a strong season in LA despite the teams struggles. Toffoli is having the worst season of his career.

Muzzin is a D-man, Toffoli a winger. D-men are harder to find/acquire than wingers.

Toffoli doesn't get a 1st round pick out of anyone.

So substitute the 1st rounder they got for Muzzin and call it a 2nd rounder.

Muzzin didn't cost the Leafs a single roster player. So the Bruins wouldn't need to include Heinen. Given their time spent in the NHL, they shouldn't need to include JFK, Bjork, or Donato.

Frederic, Studnicka, and Vaak are A-level prospects IMO and I wouldn't include them.

I'd give them their choice of one of the B-level prospects.

Lauzon
Zboril
Clifton
Andersson
Lauko
Fitzgerald
Senyshyn
Hughes

Then I'd let them take a C-level prospect skater or a later round draft pick like a 4th or 5th.

That's about what he's worth IMO. There is no guarantee that Toffoli's production ever returns to his previous level, so there is some risk to the acquiring team with his cap commitment, hence the price.

 

[Over the volcano]

All right ...lets look at it
We have mcavoy .. Who looked great and elite but has spent most of his time on the injury list. Hes also been imo a good d but certainly not a star D. I think we are myself included over valuing him at this point
Carlo is a good dman ..purely defensive guy who has little to no offense .
At this point not one player DS has drafted has been a real impactful player or one has consistenly impacted the team.
Again do not forget DS had 3 very high picks in the first rd in 2015.. For me, this dampens the other picks.. What he missed out on is inexcusable

Depends on what you consider "impactful". Boston's defense is right up there with the best in the league and he stole its top and second pair defensemen in consecutive drafts . He also pulled a very solid second line wing in Debrusk. If you think those kids arent having an impact then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Toffoli IMO would be a cheaper acquisition than the price Toronto paid for Muzzin.

Compare the two.

Signed for this year and next. Similar cap hits (4.0 and 4.6 AAV).

Muzzin was having a strong season in LA despite the teams struggles. Toffoli is having the worst season of his career.

Muzzin is a D-man, Toffoli a winger. D-men are harder to find/acquire than wingers.

Toffoli doesn't get a 1st round pick out of anyone.

So substitute the 1st rounder they got for Muzzin and call it a 2nd rounder.

Muzzin didn't cost the Leafs a single roster player. So the Bruins wouldn't need to include Heinen. Given their time spent in the NHL, they shouldn't need to include JFK, Bjork, or Donato.

Frederic, Studnicka, and Vaak are A-level prospects IMO and I wouldn't include them.

I'd give them their choice of one of the B-level prospects.

Lauzon
Zboril
Clifton
Andersson
Lauko
Fitzgerald
Senyshyn
Hughes

Then I'd let them take a C-level prospect skater or a later round draft pick like a 4th or 5th.

That's about what he's worth IMO. There is no guarantee that Toffoli's production ever returns to his previous level, so there is some risk to the acquiring team with his cap commitment, hence the price.

Agree with most of this.

I know he’s got a bigger Cap hit, but I would prefer Saad to Toffoli. He’s younger, and has continued to produce even though he’s on a bad team and not playing with Toews and Kane.

Because of that Cap hit, it should keep CHI’s asking price down a bit.

 

[Caper Bruins fan]

Overplay the elder D and you will see problems. Very similar to the Ron Hainsey situation in Toronto. Z needs to stop playing 20 minutes. The problem is that we have no one ready to eat those minutes right now. Ideally we have an inhouse solution in Vaak and Lauzon, but we cannot get them room to play to have them develop like Carlo has.

Chara certainly is struggling right now and reducing his ice time for awhile wouldn’t be a bad idea but Bruins will need Chara to play as well as he did last year vs the Leafs to have any chance of beating them . Chara will come around .

 

[Marcobruin]

Depends on what you consider "impactful". Boston's defense is right up there with the best in the league and he stole its top and second pair defensemen in consecutive drafts . He also pulled a very solid second line wing in Debrusk. If you think those kids arent having an impact then I don't know what to tell you.

How many have been consistenly impactful? We are talking about individual players not team D as a whole. None of the players as good as some have been ...none are playing at a star level ..
Btw.. I expect and sincerely hope that Jake keeps up his fire and does even better thats the least we should have gotten from 3 high consecutive picks from a good first rd draft.
Theres not much anyone can say but the feeling remains...the deep depth we would have had ...if DS drafted better in 2015 .

 

[TCB]

while i agree. lets not forget that for some reason boston can not seem to develop offensive talents.. connor was roughly the same talent level as bjork and donato coming out of college.. who's to say that he would be the same player he is now if he was on boston.. i think that boston needs to hire a coach that can work the offensive side of the game rather than just professional grinders (pandolfo, leach, whitfield) savvy wants to coach, bring him in..

Connor was a much higher ranked prospect than either Donato or Bjork, He was a projected top ten pick in his draft year and slid down to the 17th pick.

As a college player he only played his freshman year where he was named big ten player of the year, the big ten tournament outstanding player and was runner up to the Hobey Baker award as a freshman, as well as setting many big ten records. He was diffidently a step above both Donato and Bjork.

 

[Dueling Banjos]

Entertaining game, too bad we didn't grab both points.

What an entrance by Frederic, beats up Tanev, entire place screaming for him, exciting beginning for a young man. Good job.

Strong 1st period, flying out there.

Charlie had a great 1st period, rest of the game not so much.

Scoring remains the main problem.

 

[bruinsfan1970]

Why didn't our wonderful head coach go with Frederic in the shoot-out I am getting tired of seeing the same usual three shooters it is getting old. I hate the shoot-out but by letting other players try would be a bit different , heck we may even get that important extra point.

I hope the Bruins brass starts shopping for a decent goalie as Halak is starting to flounder as well, let's see what McIntyre can do against Philly.

 

[TaroTsujimoto]

Connor played very well when Sch was hurt. Krejci was on fire with march and pastr. as much as i like jake . i try to be objective . connor is the better player
At this point. Any team would offer more for him then Jake. And i must say this sophmore jinx crap is starting to frustrate me. Is connor immune to the sophmore jinx.?

Crosby didn't have a sophomore slump. Most star level players don't. DeBrusk is a tier below Connor, that's why he is sophomore slumping and Connor isn't.

 

[mjhfb]

Interesting reading the need for a big LD, and they have a smooth skating 6'2" 210lb LD watching from upstairs.

 

[BruinDust]

Agree with most of this.

I know he’s got a bigger Cap hit, but I would prefer Saad to Toffoli. He’s younger, and has continued to produce even though he’s on a bad team and not playing with Toews and Kane.

Because of that Cap hit, it should keep CHI’s asking price down a bit.

Saad to me is less risky than Toffoli. Like you said he's producing on a bad Hawks team and still producing when not paired with Toews or Kane.

Toffoli I think would be a great fit on a line with Cehlarik and Krejci. But he's more dependent on his line-mates to get the puck to him in soft spots, isn't great off the rush. One reason they say he's struggled in LA is they are trying to play faster and generate more off the rush which doesn't suit his game. A cycle line like Cehlarik-Krejci -Toffoli would probably suit him.

The risk is if that didn't work, and he didn't fit elsewhere, you just traded for a round peg when you needed a square one. Saad I think could be a round peg or a square one depending on where he's used, just much more versatile, including the ability to play both wings. But he also isn't the natural shooter that I think this team desperately needs.

I'd take either guy for the right price. I wasn't keen on Toffoli at first, but the more I thought about it I liked the idea. Saad can play for me anytime.