GDT: Game 45: Sharks vs. Wild 7:00pm NBCSCA

[weastern bias]

 

[coooldude]

Now you've gone too far

 

[Timo Time]

I have few criticisms of Warsofsky but I still can not wrap my head around starting the 4th line seemingly every game. It's surrending the first few minutes of every game and maybe I'm missing something in that strategy but it's seems unusual. And secondly, Goodrow needs to be scratched. The accountability and ego management aspect of coaching I understand, but you can not punish rookie teenagers and not the veteran who seemingly plays worse than said teenagers.

The biggest letdown last night was seemingly getting goalie'd by the Wilds B squad. Unfortunate.

 

[karltonian]

I have few criticisms of Warsofsky but I still can not wrap my head around starting the 4th line seemingly every game. It's surrending the first few minutes of every game and maybe I'm missing something in that strategy but it's seems unusual. And secondly, Goodrow needs to be scratched. The accountability and ego management aspect of coaching I understand, but you can not punish rookie teenagers and not the veteran who seemingly plays worse than said teenagers.

The biggest letdown last night was seemingly getting goalie'd by the Wilds B squad. Unfortunate.

Yeah I don't get that starting line decision. Irritating.

 

[coooldude]

I have few criticisms of Warsofsky but I still can not wrap my head around starting the 4th line seemingly every game. It's surrending the first few minutes of every game and maybe I'm missing something in that strategy but it's seems unusual. And secondly, Goodrow needs to be scratched. The accountability and ego management aspect of coaching I understand, but you can not punish rookie teenagers and not the veteran who seemingly plays worse than said teenagers.

The biggest letdown last night was seemingly getting goalie'd by the Wilds B squad. Unfortunate.

If anything, we've been starting games consistently well. It's an energy thing and a possession thing. I don't mind it. Don't think it matters much, but I'd say that starting well is something this team has done, especially at home, the majority of games this year.

 

[Boy Hedican]

What's with the suicidal thoughts? We played a pretty solid game. Massively outshot them, two bad turnovers lead to two goals against. Celebrini looked like his old self with Eklund. Keep them together.

I was watching without sound so I'm not sure if Smith got benched or injured, but hope he's ok.

View attachment 959967

Ya tbh other than Mack not getting rewarded with a goal, and Smith forcing a beer league pass through 4 Wild, these are the kind of losses I WANT. Our key guys (-Smith, although he did have some good shifts) played well tonight against a very good Wild team.

And we increase our odds of 1OA?

Easy win for me this season.

But I’d like for Mack to get a few multi-point games and a couple Ws soon for their sake.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Ya tbh other than Mack not getting rewarded with a goal, and Smith forcing a beer league pass through 4 Wild, these are the kind of losses I WANT. Our key guys (-Smith, although he did have some good shifts) played well tonight against a very good Wild team.

And we increase our odds of 1OA?

Easy win for me this season.

But I’d like for Mack to get a few multi-point games and a couple Ws soon for their sake.

I agree with the outlook. They did a lot of things better, still look like will make some changes, and lost anyway. I’d like to see Zetterlund with Eklund and Celebrini. I’d like to see Granlund with Smith if he’s going to be in the lineup. Whatever the rest looks like is whatever to me.

 

[YUPPY 2 7 10 11]

I have few criticisms of Warsofsky but I still can not wrap my head around starting the 4th line seemingly every game. It's surrending the first few minutes of every game and maybe I'm missing something in that strategy but it's seems unusual. And secondly, Goodrow needs to be scratched. The accountability and ego management aspect of coaching I understand, but you can not punish rookie teenagers and not the veteran who seemingly plays worse than said teenagers.

The biggest letdown last night was seemingly getting goalie'd by the Wilds B squad. Unfortunate.

Warsosky is our:

 

[PattyLafontaine]

Coaching is a much bigger problem. A big part of success is finding contributions from young or limited players, and Warso is atrocious at it.

I would've liked Kaliyev as a shooting threat on the 3rd line.

Not in this case. The Sharks have rarely been blown out this season and in fact they have the most 1 goal or one goal with empty netter games this year in the NHL with 21.

The Sharks have 3/6ths of a top 6 and have zero top line defensemen. Walman is a 2nd pair dman and the rest of D are bottom pair or 4th pair.

 

[Zarzh]

Not in this case. The Sharks have rarely been blown out this season and in fact they have the most 1 goal or one goal with empty netter games this year in the NHL with 21.

The Sharks have 3/6ths of a top 6 and have zero top line defensemen. Walman is a 2nd pair dman and the rest of D are bottom pair or 4th pair.

Yes, that's the problem with Warso's coaching strategy of stacking the top line and having the rest of the team play hard defense. It sacrifices wins and development to not lose as badly sometimes.

The Sharks have 5-7 capable top 6 forwards depending on how you count Smith and Wennberg and 4+ decent defensemen. There's no reason the offense should be anemic instead of just inconsistent just because he doesn't have a superstar or elite depth because most contenders don't even have every player in their top 6 as a standalone stud.

 

[DG93]

Yes, that's the problem with Warso's coaching strategy of stacking the top line and having the rest of the team play hard defense. It sacrifices wins and development to not lose as badly sometimes.

The Sharks have 5-7 capable top 6 forwards depending on how you count Smith and Wennberg and 4+ decent defensemen. There's no reason the offense should be anemic instead of just inconsistent just because he doesn't have a superstar or elite depth because most contenders don't even have every player in their top 6 as a standalone stud.

In what world do they have 5-7 top-6 forwards? With how they're playing, I would say Eklund and Celebrini fit that description. Granlund and Toffoli are established top-6 guys. That's pretty much it...Wennberg and Zetterlund are quality 3rd line forwards, but they're top-6 guys only on bad teams. Smith may get there in the future, but he's not there right now, which is fine.

Regarding defensemen, it depends on what you consider "decent." If that includes bottom pair guys, I agree. Walman-Ceci is a quality 2nd pair. Liljegren is a solid bottom pair RD. Ferraro could pass as a #6D, and Thrun may get there too. While Walman could pass as a #3, zero top-pair D.

Warso does certainly make some interesting lineup decisions, but he's working with a terrible roster that is set up to pick top-5 (top-3 if we're being honest) to continue the rebuild.

 

[Timo Time]

Yes, that's the problem with Warso's coaching strategy of stacking the top line and having the rest of the team play hard defense. It sacrifices wins and development to not lose as badly sometimes.

The Sharks have 5-7 capable top 6 forwards depending on how you count Smith and Wennberg and 4+ decent defensemen. There's no reason the offense should be anemic instead of just inconsistent just because he doesn't have a superstar or elite depth because most contenders don't even have every player in their top 6 as a standalone stud.

Celebrini, Eklund, Granlund, Zetterlund and Toffoli are the only top-6 worthy forwards. You can't say Warsofsky is stacking offense here. Celebrini has recently had Smith and Kunin as linemates. I believe that clearly indicates the opposite of what you're implying, he's tried to spread the offense.

I would love to know what 4+ decent defensemen we have.

 

[DG93]

Celebrini, Eklund, Granlund, Zetterlund and Toffoli are the only top-6 worthy forwards. You can't say Warsofsky is stacking offense here. Celebrini has recently had Smith and Kunin as linemates. I believe that clearly indicates the opposite of what you're implying, he's tried to spread the offense.

I would love to know what 4+ decent defensemen we have.

I wouldn't even consider Zetterlund a top-6 forward on an actual contending team. He's an excellent 3rd liner who can PK and contribute on PP2

 

[Star Platinum]

I wouldn't even consider Zetterlund a top-6 forward on an actual contending team. He's an excellent 3rd liner who can PK and contribute on PP2

I think if you think of Zetterlund as the dirty work guy on a line, he can work as a 2nd line guy that can also score goals. Personally, I think there's not as much space between him and Eklund as most of the folks on this forum think. Eklund is a better skater and passer, but he's also kinda soft and not really much of a goal scorer. The play he made with Celebrini last night (which was very nice) is something that would need to happen a lot more before I put him in a separate category from the other top 6 candidates on the team.

 

[Zarzh]

In what world do they have 5-7 top-6 forwards? With how they're playing, I would say Eklund and Celebrini fit that description. Granlund and Toffoli are established top-6 guys. That's pretty much it...Wennberg and Zetterlund are quality 3rd line forwards, but they're top-6 guys only on bad teams. Smith may get there in the future, but he's not there right now, which is fine.

Regarding defensemen, it depends on what you consider "decent." If that includes bottom pair guys, I agree. Walman-Ceci is a quality 2nd pair. Liljegren is a solid bottom pair RD. Ferraro could pass as a #6D, and Thrun may get there too. While Walman could pass as a #3, zero top-pair D.

Warso does certainly make some interesting lineup decisions, but he's working with a terrible roster that is set up to pick top-5 (top-3 if we're being honest) to continue the rebuild.

Zetterlund absolutely makes the top 6 on most teams as a F1. Wennberg played 2nd line minutes for most of his career despite not being a perfect 2nd line center. Most teams would be playing Smith in their top 6 or an offensive 3rd line. Liljegren and Ferraro are both fine number 4-5 defensemen.

There's no reason this team shouldn't be fun and show flashes of potential. Warso for some reason refuses to put traditional lines out either in terms of Playmaker-Sniper-Grinder or even more open guidelines of guys who it would make sense to play as F1-F2-F3 and it hasn't worked out well.

 

[hohosaregood]

Zetterlund's a solid forechecker but he's pretty bad defensively which I think would keep him out of the top 6 for most teams. He's not that reliable at killing plays on the boards and his line gets hemmed in a lot because of it.

 

[DG93]

I think if you think of Zetterlund as the dirty work guy on a line, he can work as a 2nd line guy that can also score goals. Personally, I think there's not as much space between him and Eklund as most of the folks on this forum think. Eklund is a better skater and passer, but he's also kinda soft and not really much of a goal scorer. The play he made with Celebrini last night (which was very nice) is something that would need to happen a lot more before I put him in a separate category from the other top 6 candidates on the team.

I think Zetterlund is a good #7 forward who can move up to the top-6 in a pinch. I don't agree that Eklund is soft even though he is on the smaller side. More importantly, he's 3 years younger and hopefully will keep getting better whereas Zetterlund is likely what he is at this point at 25/26yo (50pt forward who can contribute on special teams).

Zetterlund absolutely makes the top 6 on most teams as a F1. Wennberg played 2nd line minutes for most of his career despite not being a perfect 2nd line center. Most teams would be playing Smith in their top 6 or an offensive 3rd line. Liljegren and Ferraro are both fine number 4-5 defensemen.

There's no reason this team shouldn't be fun and show flashes of potential. Warso for some reason refuses to put traditional lines out either in terms of Playmaker-Sniper-Grinder or even more open guidelines of guys who it would make sense to play as F1-F2-F3 and it hasn't worked out well.

Wennberg is 100% not a 2C on a true contender...he played 2nd line minutes on a mediocre Kraken team. Smith would also not be playing in the top-6 of any real contender at this point. I agree that Ferraro-Liljegren is a solid 3rd pair.

 

[coooldude]

It's hardly worth rehashing this debate because if there's anything Warso is doing, it's trying every god damn line combination under the sun. There's only so many ways you can rearrange the deck chairs when you need 4 lines that are balanced and make sense, and players are in and out of the lineup.

And anyway, Playmaker-Sniper-Grinder lines that Warsofsky has tried in the past 3-5 games alone and just off the top of my head:
Eklund-Granlund-Zetterlund
Kunin-Celebrini-Smith
Zetterlund/Kunin-Wennberg-Toffoli
Eklund-Celebrini-Toffoli

To watch this team and think that they aren't more competitive than last year, or that line combinations are the thing holding us back from glory, is not serious.

 

[DG93]

It's hardly worth rehashing this debate because if there's anything Warso is doing, it's trying every god damn line combination under the sun. There's only so many ways you can rearrange the deck chairs when you need 4 lines that are balanced and make sense, and players are in and out of the lineup.

And anyway, Playmaker-Sniper-Grinder lines that Warsofsky has tried in the past 3-5 games alone and just off the top of my head:
Eklund-Granlund-Zetterlund
Kunin-Celebrini-Smith
Zetterlund/Kunin-Wennberg-Toffoli
Eklund-Celebrini-Toffoli

To watch this team and think that they aren't more competitive than last year, or that line combinations are the thing holding us back from glory, is not serious.

Agreed. If you were building a true playoff contender forward group right now, you would need to add an established top-line winger to Eklund-Celebrini to make a top line + another top-6 winger to play with Granlund and Toffoli on the 2nd line + a top-9 winger to play with Wennberg-Zetterlund (4th line made up of Kovalenko/Sturm/Kunin or Dellandrea is probably fine).

I would argue that is how far away this team's forward group (let alone a defense with zero top pair defensemen although Walman-Ceci and Ferraro-Liljegren is fine as a bottom-4) is from being a playoff contender right now.

 

[Zarzh]

Wennberg is 100% not a 2C on a true contender...he played 2nd line minutes on a mediocre Kraken team. Smith would also not be playing in the top-6 of any real contender at this point. I agree that Ferraro-Liljegren is a solid 3rd pair.

And Florida and Columbus before his concussions. The point isn't to build an instant contender, the point is to not be awful offensively.

 

[DG93]

And Florida and Columbus before his concussions. The point isn't to build an instant contender, the point is to not be awful offensively.

So more bad teams...he's a 3C on a good team like I said