Low Effort GDT Game 4 | Why has God forsaken us! - Sens vs Devils - 7PM EST on TSN

[Burrowsaurus]

Not even close tonight.

A double deflection then a shorthanded 2 on 1. The team was making costly errors before and after this. Congrats on your one goal with a minute left I guess.

New Jersey also gave up a 2 on 1 lol. These things actually do happen to other teams

We hit the post (again) they scored a soft wrister. Vest la vie

 

[Burrowsaurus]

its a coping strategy at this point.

Forsberg kept us in the game when it could have run away got zero goal support and yet its goalies fault.

if they continue to play this way ullmark will get overworked and won't last long either.

And markstrom and their posts kept them in it or else it could have run away from New Jersey.

Can be used either way.

That’s the thing with game that are very even like this one. Could have went either way. Didn’t go our way. The next one might. The next one might also not go New Jerseys way

 

[NyQuil]

That’s the thing with game that are very even like this one. Could have went either way. Didn’t go our way. The next one might. The next one might also not go New Jerseys way

The problem is that the circumstances weren't.

NJ was on the road, it was their 3rd game in 4 nights.

Those are games we have to win to make the post-season.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

The problem is that the circumstances weren't.

NJ was on the road, it was their 3rd game in 4 nights.

Those are games we have to win to make the post-season.

So what are the games we don’t have to win? NHL anyone can beat anyone.

People expected us to get steamrolled by the panthers and lose. We won.

You expected a win against New Jersey in their 3rd in 4 nights. (Fair). We lost.

So that’s a wash. We won one game we shouldn’t and one game we maybe should have?

Even strength we xG says we were SLIGHTLY better. Which the eye test certainly validates.

All situations is where we faltered. Our pk has definitely looked wierd first four games.

And giving up a 2 chances one being a 2 on 1 while shorthanded also skews the all situations xG.

 

[jbeck5]

I genuinely think they’re just perpetual losers. The core doesn’t know how to win at the NHL level.

Ok that’s probably a bit harsh and it’s early in the season, but I’m seeing the same thing every year.

This.

This core has been around for 4-5 years and hasn't really improved other than offensive numbers. They haven't improved their defense or game management or anything like that.

It's crazy watching the difference in game play between this team the last few years and the team that used to make the playoffs every year.

The confidence is night and day. The structure is night and day. The 1998-2008 senators generally knew exactly what to do like robots and did the same thing game in and game out. Sure, they didn't win every single game, but they could win 2/3 or even 3/4 of games over long stretches like clockwork. Just constantly playing a way that gives them an edge, so over the course of a season, we would get like 95-110 points almost regularly.


And if I remember correctly, it didn't take super long to adjust to coaches.

Jacques Martin came in midway through the year back in the day and changed their winning percentage almost immediately and they made the playoffs his first full season here.

Did anyone notice a dip when Murray took over the bench for a while as the team got used to a new coach? Nope. Me neither.

 

[Wondercarrot]

Good game, team played well and were the better team consistently throughout the game.
NJ ‘s a good team, no problem with how we played.
Moved the puck quickly out of our zone, dominated the puck for long stretches in their end, passing and movement were on point.

Chabot was fantastic.
Sanderson was ridiculous.

Pk and PP were the difference.

 

[UglyPuckling]

I didn't see any of it. Went out to see a show last night. Stat trick shows the game as pretty even.

This is a league that strives for parity. The Avalanche and the Predators are both 0-4. We're 2-2. We aren't making the playoffs in the first 10 game segment but as of right now, we aren't chasing it.

The competition in the Atlantic - the Wings and Sabres- for a spot should one of the big 4 falter are both off to slow starts.

We need Ullmark going and at least numbers wise Forsberg seems to have been ok yesterday

See below.

We were very good in the first, second was fairly even, but for a bad pass by Giroux leading to a short handed goal. In the second half of the third in particular we tried to open things up and were sloppy, and you could see they were a bit demoralized in their play, Devils did get some quality chances throughout the period as we chased the lead..

Forsberg was fine, the shorthanded goal he probably would have like to have had but a two on one with no back pressure is going to beat goalies sometimes.

We hit 4 posts, while they started the scoring with a double deflection that went in off JBD. People hate saying the bounces didn't go our way but in this case it's true.

We didn’t play badly, and as others have pointed out, and we had some shots that hit the post. But, as we said after the Florida game, a win is a win and it cuts both ways.

Here’s some food for thought from a devils advocate type perspective.

Unless we win enough to earn a divisional seed, our competition will also be some Metro teams versus just Buffalo or the Red Wings.

All teams have back up goalies that will have to play some games. It's part of the equation for all teams. So, we are going to have to play our backup in some games, and we’ll need to find a way of winning some of those games. We talk about our young core being talented. If we have enough talent and skill, we could outscore our opponent. Getting only one goal is not enough to win many games.

We’ve only played 4 games, so there’s plenty of time. We should start to win some of these games if bounces start going our way more frequently. If it boils down to bounces as being a determining factor, that is luck or random, so the law of averages should swing our way at some point. But, we are going to have to bury our chances and outscore our opponents especially with our backup in net. I’d rather that than relying on bounces and having our goalie stand on his head.

 

[Sensfan5]

Not the best game, not the worst either. Couple of those shots that hit the post go in and its a different game. Forsberg played pretty well overall, just the 2nd goal that he probably should've had. And our record against the devils recently hasn't been great. need a good rebound performance on Saturday against Tampa who we usually matchup good against somehow.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

This.

This core has been around for 4-5 years and hasn't really improved other than offensive numbers. They haven't improved their defense or game management or anything like that.

It's crazy watching the difference in game play between this team the last few years and the team that used to make the playoffs every year.

The confidence is night and day. The structure is night and day. The 1998-2008 senators generally knew exactly what to do like robots and did the same thing game in and game out. Sure, they didn't win every single game, but they could win 2/3 or even 3/4 of games over long stretches like clockwork. Just constantly playing a way that gives them an edge, so over the course of a season, we would get like 95-110 points almost regularly.


And if I remember correctly, it didn't take super long to adjust to coaches.

Jacques Martin came in midway through the year back in the day and changed their winning percentage almost immediately and they made the playoffs his first full season here.

Did anyone notice a dip when Murray took over the bench for a while as the team got used to a new coach? Nope. Me neither.

DJ smith was coach for far too long.

 

[Micklebot]

So what are the games we don’t have to win? NHL anyone can beat anyone.

People expected us to get steamrolled by the panthers and lose. We won.

You expected a win against New Jersey in their 3rd in 4 nights. (Fair). We lost.

So that’s a wash. We won one game we shouldn’t and one game we maybe should have?

Not quite a wash, we were supposed to beat the Habs....

The idea of games you need to win though, hockey isn't really like that, any team can beat any team on a given night, that's just the fun of hockey. You can get outplayed severely and still come away with the win or vice versa.

Good teams will lose games they "should" win.

See below.

We didn’t play badly, and as others have pointed out, we had some shots that hit the post. But, as we said after the Florida game, a win is a win and it cuts both ways.

Here’s some food for thought from a devils advocate type perspective.

Unless we win enough to earn a divisional seed, our competition will also be some Metro teams versus just Buffalo or the Red Wings.

All teams have back up goalies that will have to play some games. It's part of the equation for all teams. So, we are going to have to play our backup in some games, and we’ll need to find a way of winning some of those games. We talk about our young core being talented. If we have enough talent and skill, we could outscore our opponent. Getting only one goal is not enough to win many games.

We’ve only played 4 games, so there’s plenty of time. We should start to win some of these games if bounces start going our way more frequently, but we are going to have to bury our chances and outscore our opponents especially with our backup in net. I’d rather that than relying on bounces.

Relying on bounces to me is getting outplayed and hoping for the double deflection own goal to sneak one past the goalie, not creating chances and expecting that some of them go post in rather than post out. I don't think we were relying on bounces to try and win that game, we were creating a lot of chances, eventually those go in.

If we play the rest of the season the way we played NJD last night, we should win a lot more games than we lose. I didn't like the way we played once NJ started to play a prevent game, we need to find a way to break through their defense without giving up as much as we did, but outside of that, it was a very well played game imo.

The trick is to play the way we did last night consistently, we didn't do that against the Habs, and we only managed to do it for one period against Florida. The game against LA was a bit loose at times, I think they cleaned that up against NJD.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I also liked jbd who I normally do not like. If that pair shows any chemistry whatsoever then hamonic has to be the scratch.

 

[jbeck5]

DJ smith was coach for far too long.

The sens has bad coaches for several years before Jacques Martin came around and it was almost instantly playoffs for 11 straight years. It shouldn't take that long to adjust. You should see positives almost immediately if they're a great coach.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Not quite a wash, we were supposed to beat the Habs....

The idea of games you need to win though, hockey isn't really like that, any team can beat any team on a given night, that's just the fun of hockey. You can get outplayed severely and still come away with the win or vice versa.

Good teams will lose games they "should" win.

Relying on bounces to me is getting outplayed and hoping for the double deflection own goal to sneak one past the goalie, not creating chances and expecting that some of them go post in rather than post out. I don't think we were relying on bounces to try and win that game, we were creating a lot of chances, eventually those go in.

If we play the rest of the season the way we played NJD last night, we should win a lot more games than we lose. I didn't like the way we played once NJ started to play a prevent game, we need to find a way to break through their defense without giving up as much as we did, but outside of that, it was a very well played game imo.

The trick is to play the way we did last night consistently, we didn't do that against the Habs, and we only managed to do it for one period against Florida. The game against LA was a bit loose at times, I think they cleaned that up against NJD.

agree with your response to me.

Don’t agree that we only played that way for one period against Florida.

Florida is no doubt better than we are. You can’t play the same way against every single team in every situation.

We’re up by 2. We caught them sleeping. Then we hunkered down. Was our goalie great? Yeah. He was. B

 

[Wondercarrot]

I also liked jbd who I normally do not like. If that pair shows any chemistry whatsoever then hamonic has to be the scratch.

Yep that pair looked pretty good, solid game from JBD

 

[Tuna99]

The sens has bad coaches for several years before Jacques Martin came around and it was almost instantly playoffs for 11 straight years. It shouldn't take that long to adjust. You should see positives almost immediately if they're a great coach.

that team had 2 of the of the best 2 way forwards to ever play the game and depth that was in its prime.

 

[SpezDispenser]

We actually have more than competent third and fourth lines this year for the first time in forever

 

[Burrowsaurus]

The sens has bad coaches for several years before Jacques Martin came around and it was almost instantly playoffs for 11 straight years. It shouldn't take that long to adjust. You should see positives almost immediately if they're a great coach.

Well if Jacques had decent goaltending last year we very well may have made a big push to get in. And if DJ was fired a bit sooner.

 

[jbeck5]

that team had 2 of the of the best 2 way forwards to ever play the game and depth that was in its prime.

They didn't enter the league as top defensive forwards. I'm sure Jacques Martin had a hand in developing their 200 foot games.

Where is Brady or Timmy's 200 foot game?

Depth was the same age as our depth now. You think guys like Schaefer or Fisher or Neil or Kelly were 28 before they made the playoffs with the sens? No.

Edit: looking at how young our core was when we first made the playoffs and comparing it to our aged core who has never made the playoffs is depressing.

Yashin - 22
Alfredsson - 23
Daigle - 21
Dackell - 23
Redden - 19
Zholtok - 23
Bonk - 20
Bicanek - 21
Neckar - 20

The following year we added 19 year old Phillips and 18 year old Hossa.


1999-2000 when we broke out with 103 points..

Hossa - 19
Phillips - 20
Redden - 21
Bonk - 22
Neckar - 22
Prospal - 23
Salo - 23
Murray - 23
Bicanek - 23
Yashin - 24
Traverse - 24
Dackell - 25
Johansson - 25
Alfredsson - 25
Sarault - 25

How come that core knew how to be a winner in their age 20-25 years, but ours only know how to be losers?

Is it time to realize this dorion build isn't good enough, and to do a major retool(if you think we have enough value in our lineup to win a cup) or a rebuild (if we need to gain value to win a cup)?

Our core isn't young anymore. No one is under 22.

Perron - 36
Giroux - 36
Jensen - 33
Ullmark - 31
Zub - 28
Chabot - 27
Batherson - 26
Norris - 25
Tkachuk - 24

Aside from stutzle and Sanderson, there isn't much for a super young core. They shut be in put up or break up mode.

 

[The Professional]

MacEwen has really been good so far, I know he was slotted as the 13th forward, but based on his play he should be in the line up every night. He's working hard, being physical and contributes offensively. He had some really good dangles last night.

 

[jbeck5]

Well if Jacques had decent goaltending last year we very well may have made a big push to get in. And if DJ was fired a bit sooner.

The first year we made the playoffs with Jacques, he had:

Rhodes 0.890
Tugnutt 0.895

I'm pretty sure it was a stingy defensive system (combined with more percentage of teams making the playoffs)

 

[UglyPuckling]

Not quite a wash, we were supposed to beat the Habs....

The idea of games you need to win though, hockey isn't really like that, any team can beat any team on a given night, that's just the fun of hockey. You can get outplayed severely and still come away with the win or vice versa.

Good teams will lose games they "should" win.

Relying on bounces to me is getting outplayed and hoping for the double deflection own goal to sneak one past the goalie, not creating chances and expecting that some of them go post in rather than post out. I don't think we were relying on bounces to try and win that game, we were creating a lot of chances, eventually those go in.

If we play the rest of the season the way we played NJD last night, we should win a lot more games than we lose. I didn't like the way we played once NJ started to play a prevent game, we need to find a way to break through their defense without giving up as much as we did, but outside of that, it was a very well played game imo.

The trick is to play the way we did last night consistently, we didn't do that against the Habs, and we only managed to do it for one period against Florida. The game against LA was a bit loose at times, I think they cleaned that up against NJD.

I stated that bounces are something that the law of averages would in the long term address. We talked a lot about bounces last year, and a lot in general in here. You are putting a lot of emphasis on the “relying” part, but my thinking there was that was how some fans seem to talk about things. It would be nice to be in a position to talk more about how our skill players sniped enough goals to win a game.

Ya consistency is a big part of a winning culture and successful teams. I don’t know what will happen this year, but our win percentage in recent years reveals we haven’t been consistent.

We have a Western road trip coming up. There’s games against VGK and Colorado, but there is also games against Utah and the Blues that should be winnable. What’s that expression: You are what your record says you are. Let’s see what happens.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

The first year we made the playoffs with Jacques, he had:

Rhodes 0.890
Tugnutt 0.895

I'm pretty sure it was a stingy defensive system (combined with more percentage of teams making the playoffs)

Different nhl.

More offense now. Back then maybe you could get by with that goaltending.

stingy defence back then also meant a lot of clutching and grabbing and hooking. Can’t do that now.

Pretty much every player responded to what Jacques wanted them to do last year. Except chychrun maybe.

 

[Tuna99]

They didn't enter the league as top defensive forwards. I'm sure Jacques Martin had a hand in developing their 200 foot games.

Where is Brady or Timmy's 200 foot game?

Depth was the same age as our depth now. You think guys like Schaefer or Fisher or Neil or Kelly were 28 before they made the playoffs with the sens? No.

I think the main difference between those teams and these teams is the top players on those teams loved 2-way play led by Hossa and Alfie and they set the standard and everyone had to give their best on the defensive side or they didn’t play. Brady/Timmy don’t have that mindset. They are more a Jason Soezza mindset where they are there to score for the team and defence is a secondary concern.


Next game we’ll win if there’s a hilite pack of Brady making defensive plays. If not, he goes away in games and Amadio becomes more noticeable

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I think the main difference between those teams and these teams is the top players on those teams loved 2-way play led by Hossa and Alfie and Brady/Timmy don’t have that mindset. They are more a Jason Soezza mindset where they are there to score for the team and defence is a secondary concern.


Next game we’ll win if there’s a hilite pack of Brady making defensive plays. If not, he goes away in games and Amadio becomes more noticeable

It’s a little crazy how little of a factor Brady is in the d zone at his size and his skating.

But I mean was asked to do none of that for the first 5 years of his career. What do you expect

I think the main difference between those teams and these teams is the top players on those teams loved 2-way play led by Hossa and Alfie and they set the standard and everyone had to give their best on the defensive side or they didn’t play. Brady/Timmy don’t have that mindset. They are more a Jason Soezza mindset where they are there to score for the team and defence is a secondary concern.


Next game we’ll win if there’s a hilite pack of Brady making defensive plays. If not, he goes away in games and Amadio becomes more noticeable

Well 20 year olds were different back the

They didn't enter the league as top defensive forwards. I'm sure Jacques Martin had a hand in developing their 200 foot games.

Where is Brady or Timmy's 200 foot game?

Depth was the same age as our depth now. You think guys like Schaefer or Fisher or Neil or Kelly were 28 before they made the playoffs with the sens? No.

Edit: looking at how young our core was when we first made the playoffs and comparing it to our aged core who has never made the playoffs is depressing.

Yashin - 22
Alfredsson - 23
Daigle - 21
Dackell - 23
Redden - 19
Zholtok - 23
Bonk - 20
Bicanek - 21
Neckar - 20

The following year we added 19 year old Phillips and 18 year old Hossa.


1999-2000 when we broke out with 103 points..

Hossa - 19
Phillips - 20
Redden - 21
Bonk - 22
Neckar - 22
Prospal - 23
Salo - 23
Murray - 23
Bicanek - 23
Yashin - 24
Traverse - 24
Dackell - 25
Johansson - 25
Alfredsson - 25
Sarault - 25

How come that core knew how to be a winner in their age 20-25 years, but ours only know how to be losers?

Is it time to realize this dorion build isn't good enough, and to do a major retool(if you think we have enough value in our lineup to win a cup) or a rebuild (if we need to gain value to win a cup)?

Our core isn't young anymore. No one is under 22.

Perron - 36
Giroux - 36
Jensen - 33
Ullmark - 31
Zub - 28
Chabot - 27
Batherson - 26
Norris - 25
Tkachuk - 24

Aside from stutzle and Sanderson, there isn't much for a super young core. They shut be in put up or break up mode.

20 year olds were different back then. That’s an issue in pretty much every sport right now. At 21 those guys were men. 21 now these guys are brats.
Big issue with these guys is they had DJ for the start of their career. A guy who coddled them and also didn’t seem to give two f***s if they didn’t play defence.

Hiring DJ instead of Jacques 6 years ago was Dorions biggest blunder.

 

[Icelevel]

Feel bad for the people who went to the ctc and sat through that one.
Not worth the time and money. Couple more of those at home and watch attendance drop heavy.