GDT: Game 39: Bruins @ Sabres - 12/29 7pm ET (MSG-B, WGR 550)

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SnuggaRUDE

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Apr 5, 2013
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How does any of that disprove my point that his gigantic mistake was bringing in players who flopped terribly? If he had acquired good and useful players we aren't having this discussion.

This makes no sense. Both RoR and Kane produced well in their time with Buffalo, even Lehner was fine until last year. The middle of the lineup which was stripped to acquire them and others has continued to be a thorn in the Sabres' side. He brought in players at the wrong time. Jack wasn't Jack yet, and Sam never quite became Sam.

Consider this team with JT Compher and Colin White.
 

Gordo21

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How does any of that disprove my point that his gigantic mistake was bringing in players who flopped terribly? If he had acquired good and useful players we aren't having this discussion.
Actually not true. Rather go with the strength in numbers approach. Granted, Botterill has a bunch of work ahead, but it won't be done magically with one or two moves.

Kane and OReilly were both very good players, But OReilly in particular, was not good enough to do it on his own. God knows they wanted him to as evidenced by how much they used him.

Let the pot simmer. Make a couple more savy moves like Pilut and Skinner, draft well, sign a nice free agent, and let the pot simmer for a while.
 
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Dreakon13

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What about Pilut then?
What about him? He was an injury callup and the D is getting healthy again.

If you mean why can't they sit one of our main roster D for him, I'd agree they probably could/should. But outside of maybe Scandella, I don't think any of our D have been so bad as to warrant just flat out getting cut from the team. My guess is that he stays up for a few games just in case someone actually isn't ready to go, he gets sent back down shortly, and gives Botts some flexibility to sell off a "top 4 D" like Scandella at the TDL. Probably for middle 6/bottom 9 forward help, to go along with the inevitable Rochester callups, for a late season push.

EDIT: Maybe package Scandella and Pominville for some Ennis/Foligno types. :laugh:
 
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Gordo21

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Literally no one is talking about giving up major assets so why on Earth is anyone talking about Tim Murray?
You haven't seen trade suggestions involving multiple assets?

It's easy to forget history. Let's not have that happen.
 

Dreakon13

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Go look again. Poms stopped producing last year and got moved off the top line. The same thing happened this year. He's got about 20 good games, if that, then he is spent.
I'll level with you, I could look and see when his production dropped off... but I'd have no idea where to look for who his linemates were on any given night. You may be completely right. But his production dropping because he isn't with Eichel anymore makes more logical sense to me than him just forgetting how to hockey coincidentally around the same time.
 

SnuggaRUDE

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Literally no one is talking about giving up major assets so why on Earth is anyone talking about Tim Murray?

Literally it's been coming up more and more during this losing streak. People were talking about trading 1sts, and or Risto for forwards.

That's why people are talking about Murray.
 

Gordo21

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Again, I'm talking about not repeating history. I would like to see what's best for this team moving forward, and right now it appears Botterill has his pulse on the situation.

Didn't think I was out of hand in the slightest.

Go Sabres
 

Chainshot

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I'll level with you, I could look and see when his production dropped off... but I'd have no idea where to look for who his linemates were on any given night. You may be completely right. But his production dropping because he isn't with Eichel anymore makes more logical sense to me than him just forgetting how to hockey coincidentally around the same time.

He stopped producing and then after a time was removed from the line where he then continued to be a non-factor on the scoresheet. This isn't the first season he's relied upon a high-tempo skating center to make up for his lack of footspeed -- he leaned hard on Haula in Minny as well. It's why some of us were so down on returning him for another season at $5M for his lack of production. He's reliant on others and even then, he has a hard time keeping up over the majority of the season.
 
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SnuggaRUDE

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He stopped producing and then after a time was removed from the line where he then continued to be a non-factor on the scoresheet. This isn't the first season he's relied upon a high-tempo skating center to make

To move forward as a team they need to get production out of Reinhart while he's not playing on the top line.

Platoon him if appropriate, have them double shift into offensive faceoffs against tired lines which iced the puck. But he needs to be helping out Mitts.
 

Chainshot

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To move forward as a team they need to get production out of Reinhart while he's not playing on the top line.

Platoon him if appropriate, have them double shift into offensive faceoffs against tired lines which iced the puck. But he needs to be helping out Mitts.

They have to get production from someone. If Phil is going to continue to roll out the same lineup night after night and Botterill isn't going to make any moves from the farm, it seems unlikely anything different is going to happen.
 

SnuggaRUDE

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They have to get production from someone. If Phil is going to continue to roll out the same lineup night after night and Botterill isn't going to make any moves from the farm, it seems unlikely anything different is going to happen.

If the roster doesn't change Phil needs to change his deployment. Zero offensive trap for the bottom lines, shoot into the goalies glove and try to manufacture ozone faceoffs for Jack to win. He's playing like he can use a mobile defensive corps to overcome the short comings of his wingers, but his centers are too weak to be the transition players.

I think other teams started to get hip to the fact that a low dropping center wasn't an actual threat if he wasn't wearing #9. And they're sitting on that
 

Chainshot

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How sure are we that Botts isn't going to act like they're *THE* deadline acquisitions whenever they do come?

I looked at something like this the other night. I sorted AHL P/GP and looked at everyone above or near Olofsson's clip with at least 10 AHL games. All but three had a taste of the NHL this season: TBL Barre-Boulet, TBL Verhaeghe, and SJS Perron.

Is he recycling Regier scripts that he found stacked under the fax machine?
 

OkimLom

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Tim Murray almost singlehandedly ruined any organizational momentum it had before he arrived. Asset wise at least

He virtually wiped out the asset pool. Signed Lehner, Moulson Okposo long term. How many assets for Deslauriers?

Those 4 moves alone show you how out of touch he was with today's evolving nhl.

We could debate Kane and O'Reilly til we're blue in the face, bottom line we gave up multiple assets for each player, and neither one changed the direction of this team.

History should be used to Botterill's advantage here.

Seriously, this long and people still use the same talking points and seemingly ignoring or not understanding what he tried to accomplish, as well as not understanding why those players cost what they did and why he needed to use those assets.

Sure it’s valid to say he targeted the wrong players. But I’d like to know, how others would’ve accomplished what needed to be done 2014-2015. Our roster lacked leadership, top 6 players, longer term starting goaltending, and any players worth any value(the majority were still in development). He accomplished all this.

Right now, Lehner and hiring Bylsma were his black eyes, but getting Lehner allowed goaltenders like Ullmark and Petersen to develop, two goalies who had the best chances in our organization to become starters.

Kane, was a top 6 goal scorer, who was locked into a long term deal, we gave up a 1st round pick (seems plausiable considering term and age of player) and then you had UFA to be Stafford who was not going to re-sign for us. Kane, at the time, was either going to be a longer term player or be a valuable asset at a later time...cue 3 years later and Kane is traded for what could be a 1st round pick...Thanks Botts, but there seems to be silence on thanking Murray for bringing a player that could bring that type of asset.

But I don’t want to talk too much on past management, just don’t think the hyperbolic rhetoric people have his tenure is and how it ruined our organization is from far from the truth.
 

BananaSquad

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I like Pilut but wow, didn’t realize he’s already a legit top 4 guy.. Sabres could be 1st overall and it still wouldn’t be good enough for people around here. Maybe step away from the computer and just enjoy the game for once?
 

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