GDT: Game 34: Sharks vs. Jets 7:30pm NBCSCA

[OverTheLine]

Can we put Smith back with Granny? That was working.

 

[Star Platinum]

i firmly believe kyle connor is not a bigger star because his name is so incredibly generic.

I mean, he is the father of the guy who saved us from Skynet.

I'm laughing so f***ing hard, Zetterlund peeped Goodrow as his passing option and ripped it top shelf immediately.

The spacing on that 3 on 1 was so terrible he pretty much had to shoot.

 

[Jargon]

Would honestly trade for Kakko just so I don’t have to see Goodrow that high in the lineup ever again.

 

[tiburon12]

Anyone else get flashbacks after that Lowry goal? I remember in the doldrums of the Pre-Tank-Jones Era, Tyler Myers scored a sifter from along the boards from the point that Jones i think could see all the way lol.

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

I didn’t get to see the game just the highlights and Thomas Speer needs a pay raise asap, props to Grier for getting the goalie whisperer. He may be better than Mitch Korn. WhoreGiev looked way better this game. Also props to the team for being competitive against one of the top teams in the league. Mack and Kovalenko chemistry is looking good

Would honestly trade for Kakko just so I don’t have to see Goodrow that high in the lineup ever again.

Drury is so out of his mind he’d probably do it for Bordeleau

 

[Star Platinum]

I know ya'll are happy for the tank results and I get it but would've loved to see them pull through with this one, they played really well. Georgiev is definitely bad, I suspect we could've won that one with Blackwood.

Yeah, I wanted to win this one too, even though I worried it would lead to too many more wins. They played really well for the most part.

 

[LadyStanley]

 

[Star Platinum]

I would almost rather us have the #3 pick so we can get Schaefer.

Schaefer will be gone by the third pick IMO

 

[LadyStanley]

 

[Star Platinum]

Tough loss. Skaters played better than this. Georgiev not good enough...

Defense gave up as many goals as Georgiev.

 

[BaileyMacTavish]

Defense gave up as many goals as Georgiev.

Can't even blame Georgiev that much tbh. Rutta and Ferraro have to go eventually.

 

[StrawHatEklund]

Was a fun night even with Sharkie blocking my view of Celebrini’s no look back hander PP goal. Zetterlund goal was clean too. Though, Buffalo is continuing to free fall. Celebrini was targeted again late in the 3rd. Got a good view. He was chirping haha. Mack also had a long talk with the ref after the game too.

Top 4 pick is looking closer with Hawks/Preds winning. Though, we played solid for stretches so I was hoping for a OT win.

Defense gave up as many goals as Georgiev.

I think he could have been better on the 1st one as he dove early/baited but the other 3 weren’t really ones I expect to be saved.

 

[67 others]

Schaefer will be gone by the third pick IMO

Hagens and Martone are going 1 and 2 unless Schaefer really blows up

Schaefer going #2 would be like werenski going ahead of Eichel in 2015

 

[Shark Finn]

So... a successful loss?

 

[Barrie22]

Kovalenko 5 points and plus 2 in 3 games with the sharks.

After 3 games he is already a quarter of the way to where i figured would be a good total point wise fir the eason for him.

 

[matt trick]

Kovalenko 5 points and plus 2 in 3 games with the sharks.

After 3 games he is already a quarter of the way to where i figured would be a good total point wise fir the eason for him.

You know how Crosby plays best with kinda skilled grinders....this seems similar. I will say Kovalenko had two beautiful passes that led to Tofolli's goal, hopefully the vision demonstrated isn't an outlier.

I thought Georgiev was okay, though two of the goals he could do better on. I wouldn't be surprised if Speer can turn him around though. I think if the Sharks are going give up 30 shots, he's going to give up 4 goals more often that not.

 

[Pete Taylor]

Honestly, I do not like the 'Best Tank Result' point of view/way of thinking.

The kids need to experience winning, regardless of whether it's close or not. This is exactly how teams stay perpetually bad.

I get it, we are still very young, and early in the rebuild, but it is not like we started a couple years ago. We are about to be year 6 without making the playoffs. It is time that we started winning these close games to give the kids some much needed confidence.

Edit: I know we aren't going to make the playoffs this year, and that it has been a step forward so far, I would rather have us continue playing .450 hockey, rather than going on very extended losing streaks.

 

[coooldude]

Honestly, I do not like the 'Best Tank Result' point of view/way of thinking.

The kids need to experience winning, regardless of whether it's close or not. This is exactly how teams stay perpetually bad.

I get it, we are still very young, and early in the rebuild, but it is not like we started a couple years ago. We are about to be year 6 without making the playoffs. It is time that we started winning these close games to give the kids some much needed confidence.

Edit: I know we aren't going to make the playoffs this year, and that it has been a step forward so far, I would rather have us continue playing .450 hockey, rather than going on very extended losing streaks.

It's a tough December and we just took one of the top teams to the last minute. It would be better to force them to overtime, but it's not like we got caved. The kids will definitely be able to take positives from that game. If we win every third game versus a top team, it's excellent for picking one more top player while also teaching the kids how to win hard games.

Beat the Caps, almost take the Jets to OT, lose two rough road games to the FL wagons, I don't think you can say that's unexpected OR bad.

If we lose the rest of the 6 games in December, that wouldn't be good. I predicted 10 points, so far we only have 4, so 3-3 or 2-2-2 would be a nice way to finish. But it's a hard road.

 

[Barrie22]

Honestly, I do not like the 'Best Tank Result' point of view/way of thinking.

The kids need to experience winning, regardless of whether it's close or not. This is exactly how teams stay perpetually bad.

I get it, we are still very young, and early in the rebuild, but it is not like we started a couple years ago. We are about to be year 6 without making the playoffs. It is time that we started winning these close games to give the kids some much needed confidence.

Edit: I know we aren't going to make the playoffs this year, and that it has been a step forward so far, I would rather have us continue playing .450 hockey, rather than going on very extended losing streaks.

The reason teams like buffalo can't get out of the constant rebuild phase is because they tried to jump a few steps in the rebuild to reach the playoffs before they were actually ready for it.

What the sharks are doing this year is part of the steps that buffalo skipped, surround the young players with veterans while they start to progress in what it takes to be a pro hockey player.

The sharks right now compared to last year are 1 shot away from having an extra 9 points on the year through 34 games. Which means we would be fighting for a wild card spot with calgary and colorado.

We still need at the very least another top 1 maybe 2 forwards to be drafted or take the next step of progression and another top pospect defensemen (none in the pipe line as of today)

This team needs 1 or even 2 more top 5 picks to complete the actual rebuild and then 1 or 2 more years to complete the depth charts of the team.

 

[Jargon]

The reason teams like buffalo can't get out of the constant rebuild phase is because they tried to jump a few steps in the rebuild to reach the playoffs before they were actually ready for it.

What the sharks are doing this year is part of the steps that buffalo skipped, surround the young players with veterans while they start to progress in what it takes to be a pro hockey player.

The sharks right now compared to last year are 1 shot away from having an extra 9 points on the year through 34 games. Which means we would be fighting for a wild card spot with calgary and colorado.

We still need at the very least another top 1 maybe 2 forwards to be drafted or take the next step of progression and another top pospect defensemen (none in the pipe line as of today)

This team needs 1 or even 2 more top 5 picks to complete the actual rebuild and then 1 or 2 more years to complete the depth charts of the team.

I think picking top 5 next year would be a little brutal, I suspect they’re going to try everything they can not to do that, but we’ll see how it goes. I suspect Grier is going to go hard trying to find a defenseman this summer and maybe bring in another top 6 (especially if Granlund is traded).

 

[JoeThorntonsRooster]

Buffalo finished with 81 points in Eichel's first season - a respectable 50% improvement on the year before drafting him. By contrast, Colorado finished with a record-low 48 points in MacKinnon's fourth season; this was immediately after their head coach ripped Matt Duchene and said their team as a whole has a "losing mentality" at the end of MacKinnon's third season.

What goes into whether a team develops a winning vs. losing culture after a rebuild is very complex. The example above shows it's not as simple as just following some proper path of ascent out of the basement. It might also not be as simple as "have better hockey players and you'll have a winning culture," but there's a much clearer association between the teams with winning cultures and the teams who have the best hockey players.

To that end, the degree to which drafting a Misa/Martone/Schaefer/Hagens and not a Frondell/Eklund/Smith/McQueen/etc. contributes to how good our hockey players are is a lot more important to the development of a long-term winning culture than an extra ~5-10 wins would be.

 

[Cas]

Honestly, I do not like the 'Best Tank Result' point of view/way of thinking.

The kids need to experience winning, regardless of whether it's close or not. This is exactly how teams stay perpetually bad.

I get it, we are still very young, and early in the rebuild, but it is not like we started a couple years ago. We are about to be year 6 without making the playoffs. It is time that we started winning these close games to give the kids some much needed confidence.

Edit: I know we aren't going to make the playoffs this year, and that it has been a step forward so far, I would rather have us continue playing .450 hockey, rather than going on very extended losing streaks.

Teams stay perpetually bad through incompetent management that either thinks they're closer than they are and commits too early, or thinks their prospects are better than they really are.

The rebuild began 22 months ago and almost no one is left who was around before it began (Ferraro, Sturm, and I suppose Eklund).

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Honestly, I do not like the 'Best Tank Result' point of view/way of thinking.

The kids need to experience winning, regardless of whether it's close or not. This is exactly how teams stay perpetually bad.

I get it, we are still very young, and early in the rebuild, but it is not like we started a couple years ago. We are about to be year 6 without making the playoffs. It is time that we started winning these close games to give the kids some much needed confidence.

Edit: I know we aren't going to make the playoffs this year, and that it has been a step forward so far, I would rather have us continue playing .450 hockey, rather than going on very extended losing streaks.

You don't have to like it but it's what is best for the team and the reality of where the team is at right now.

The kids need NHL experience. The winning has been great when it happens but they still learn and get better when they lose.

In reality, the rebuild started this season. They weren't rebuilding before Grier got hired. They weren't rebuilding by only really having Eklund as a young core player in their lineup last season surrounded by filler vets. A rebuild doesn't really start until you have someone to build around and Celebrini is that guy. They aren't actually competitive without him in the lineup as the 3-8-1 record without Celebrini in October showed. They still have a lot of building to do so that Celebrini has the help he needs to do his thing to make winning a more consistent thing.

Don't put on these kids the failures of the team prior to their arrival. Let them play and develop and whatever the results end up being is fine. They're not going to break because they lost a lot in their rookie seasons. And getting another top end talent in the draft can help the team exponentially whether it's Schaefer or Hagens or Martone or Misa.

When next year comes around, it's a lot more reasonable to have expectations that are closely linked to the team's record. This year is about establishing a new identity and they've made excellent progress on that front with Celebrini becoming a lot of the team's identity and a new young coach figuring out how to help the kids get better and the team come together.

 

[sampler]

Honestly, I do not like the 'Best Tank Result' point of view/way of thinking.

The kids need to experience winning, regardless of whether it's close or not. This is exactly how teams stay perpetually bad.

I get it, we are still very young, and early in the rebuild, but it is not like we started a couple years ago. We are about to be year 6 without making the playoffs. It is time that we started winning these close games to give the kids some much needed confidence.

Edit: I know we aren't going to make the playoffs this year, and that it has been a step forward so far, I would rather have us continue playing .450 hockey, rather than going on very extended losing streaks.

I would agree with one caveat. To me, the wins and losses are less important than they way they play. Hats off to warsofsky as the team is playing the right way. They are toe to toe with the best teams in the league. When you play that way, the wins will come. yes, the next step is how to close games out, but that will come.

Consider where we ended last year and started this one? Historically bad last year. Then historically bad start. And now, they are tied or leading in the 3rd in virtually every game (save the florida two). They are playing even or better than the top teams and their expected points based on play is way higher than they have. That's perfect. Winning when playing poorly because your goalie makes 52 saves is not good, sustainable, or creating a winning culture. Outplaying opponents consistently and playing the right way, with good systems, and effort is the key. The sharks are head and shoulders improving in that way. The wins will come...

For now, though, losses like this are much much better than 7-1 losses. Furthermore, being .500 has its upside (builds a winning culture, teaches kids what it feels like and what it takes to win), but a top 3 pick is better in the longer term, and this is really still a year to collect future assets (i.e. trade granny, ceci, etc). Games like this achieve all the key goals: They prove that the sharks can hang with the big teams. Proves to the kids what it takes to win. Still gives the team something to improve on. Improves the chances of a top 4 pick for one of the big 4 of the draft. Proves that the sharks are one goalie (already in system), and just a few good skaters from being a solid top half team already.

lastly, if they continue to play like this, the wins will surely come. Teams that outplay others usually win. So playing extremely well and losing is a perfect, beneficial, fluke.

 

[TheBeard]

In reality, the rebuild started this season.

I feel like I’ve been reading this here for three years.