GDT: Game 34: Red Wings vs blues 7:00 pm et 12/23/24

[Rzombo4 prez]

How does Larkin not bear some of the responsibility for this shit show? It's one thing to go out there and skate your ass off and dig deep and lose games anyway because of a bad system. I'm not sure what exactly the system is, which is totally on management, but this team has a lot more issues than that. Bad starts. No cohesion. Lack of energy. No accountability. No drive. These are partially the responsibility of player leadership.

This board has always given Larkin a pass. If you are looking for common denominators, he is the one constant through all of this. Perhaps he struggles holding guys accountable or doesn't want that responsibility. He is without question our best and most important forward. This year, however, he really has not been that good game to game, shift to shift and started slow.

This idea that "motivation" comes from the coaching staff is one of the dumbest notions floating around this board. This isn't high school JV football in Brighton. Buy-in, sure, but motivation, never. In pro sports the motivations are checks and championships. Which is why internal accountability is so important. My working theory on the season is that everyone in the room knew that we overachieved last year. They also knew we did not get better on paper over the summer. When no reinforcements came, they folded like a lawn chair.

Larkin for 3 first round picks including an unprotected Nashville 1st? You’d be completely insane to not accept that. Nashville wouldn’t offer their 1st for Raymond or Seider.

In that hypothetical we could come out of the draft with Hagens and Martone. That would be insane.

It would be the right move even though it would set us back four years. I can't imagine Nashville doing it though.

 

[Ulysses31]

I'd rather not put my future in the hands of a man with two holes in them.

ROFLMAO u 1 funny mofo

 

[FMichael]

Q and Kane are both scummy. Its been reported that players harassed Beach with gay slurs during practices and such. Kane knew enough for me to conclude he either gave some shit to Beach himself or didn't care enough to stop other players from doing it or to try to find out what was going on. I was disgusted when team USA started making him their captain and have been disgusted everytime I've seen him wearing the Wings sweater sweater. I felt the same about Todd Bertuzzi, though to a lesser extent. Hiring Q would be my breaking point, he clearly knew plenty to raise alarms and chose to ignore it.

I can appreciate that - not hiring Coach Q for what you mentioned in your post, but you hit the nail on the head regarding Kane (I'm sure he knew what went down in the locker room and then there was the rape allegation which was dropped, but certainly raised eyebrows).

Can we then all agree that Gallant needs to be our guy?

 

[FMichael]

The team has no identity whatsoever...

I said 10 games into the season..

They're not fast, skilled, or big

They're not experienced or youthful

They don't out work you, they don't forecheck relentlessly, it's not puck possession nor counterstrike

They're not resilent

The locker room must be an absolute disaster..

The buck stops at the top and it's time he takes some ownership of the issues and actively addresses them

IMHO this has been the entire organization since Holland/Blashill were here...Dats/Hank/Lids - as soon as those 3 left - the team nosedived and has been a dumpster fire ever since.

Larkin won't win the Cup as long as he remains a Detroit Red Wing...Just some brutal hard facts.

 

[SoupGuru]

There was reluctance to give Larkin the C initially, wasn't there?

 

[cvaicunas]

Sure looked like Seider went a little rogue last night and said imma create some offense myself. Lot of pinching and play down low as the game went on. Left Holl back there alone several times. To add to the dismal performance of late, our first line can't seem to even create any offensive chances lately either. PP has been a mess for at least a week. Was nice to see Kasper's line look like they gave a shit. Sure gives credence to the idea that we should just play the kids. The vets look like they have given up mentally.

 

[DamonDRW]

Wallman, Gostibehere, Maata, Perron, and that guy scoring 20 goals from the 3rd line (Sprong) may not be that bad after all.

I've never been so disinterested in Red Wings since I started following them in 1993.

 

[Winger98]

Gallant burns himself out in a room in two to three years. That is basically when our window opens you hope in terms of what they are building.

I think this is Yzerman’s last hire is a part of why I think Coach Q will get a serious look. Question for you guys/gals, do you not think Scottie Bowman knew about what was happening too? Get you can say it in a different context as an advisor that just hears everything, but you don’t think Stan told him…

If I was in Stan's spot I wouldn't have said a word to Scotty. Too many possible legal entanglements. But maybe that's just me who would rather not put my dad in the position of possibly being asked to testify against me if the whole situation went that way.

I'm not sure the gallant burnout thing is a positive or negative here, either. I would think the goal is that whoever we hire would be here for 5+ years.

 

[Snuggs]

Wallman, Gostibehere, Maata, Perron, and that guy scoring 20 goals from the 3rd line (Sprong) may not be that bad after all.

I've never been so disinterested in Red Wings since I started following them in 1993.

I started following in 1990... and I'm just like... what the hell is even going on...

The year before Yzerman was hired and the he was hired were pretty damn rough watches also to be honest. I've pretty much been blessed with winning forever till Jeff Blashill. I've never ever blamed Holland for winning or trying to win just mad at his mistakes and that's what they definitely were. A couple moves different, and Holland gets remember a little differently, especially if Fedorov never moved, Fischer never had his medeical injury or if Hossa was signed over Franzen... the obvious, if he won back-to-back against the Penguins.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I can appreciate that - not hiring Coach Q for what you mentioned in your post, but you hit the nail on the head regarding Kane (I'm sure he knew what went down in the locker room and then there was the rape allegation which was dropped, but certainly raised eyebrows).

Can we then all agree that Gallant needs to be our guy?

They were openly teasing Beach on the ice in practice about it. More people in the organization knew about it than didn’t. I am not sure it is everyone’s cross to bear. But to be clear you need to hate the entirety of the organization if you want to be a hardliner on this, including a certain coach that is sainted around here.

More of a pick and choose thing in terms of the outrage on this it feels for many. Not all mind you, there are posters around here who remain consistent on everyone.

The President and Owner should have gotten in a lot more trouble legally as the people obligated by law to report it and having said they would handle the matter to underlings.

Stan Bowman has been hired and the league has cleared Coach Q, he is an option. Again I don’t fault those that say absolutely not, but there are other necessary impacts for our fanbase if that is your position in my opinion.

 

[Snuggs]

If I was in Stan's spot I wouldn't have said a word to Scotty. Too many possible legal entanglements. But maybe that's just me who would rather not put my dad in the position of possibly being asked to testify against me if the whole situation went that way.

I'm not sure the gallant burnout thing is a positive or negative here, either. I would think the goal is that whoever we hire would be here for 5+ years.

I'm serious about this, I'd keep an eye on the Penguins staff. Sullivan himself or his best pal David Quinn, maybe both in opposite positions here. Watson from the AHL is another guy I think is in serious contention.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

If I was in Stan's spot I wouldn't have said a word to Scotty. Too many possible legal entanglements. But maybe that's just me who would rather not put my dad in the position of possibly being asked to testify against me if the whole situation went that way.

I'm not sure the gallant burnout thing is a positive or negative here, either. I would think the goal is that whoever we hire would be here for 5+ years.

Not really their reported relationship at all. Also a big enough scandal in organization that Sopel is on record with everyone in and around the team knew.

It is speculation, but most are extrapolating Q cannot be hired by the same reports. Kane is certainly in trouble with points of this. I honestly don’t see it influencing Yzerman or the Ilitch family if that is who they want as coach.

 

[Winger98]

I'm serious about this, I'd keep an eye on the Penguins staff. Sullivan himself or his best pal David Quinn, maybe both in opposite positions here. Watson from the AHL is another guy I think is in serious contention.

Id add Dave Hakstol to the list, maybe McLellen. A lot of guys out there we could look at. What I don't really want to see is us firing Lalonde just to put one of his assistants in his place.

 

[Winger98]

Not really their reported relationship at all. Also a big enough scandal in organization that Sopel is on record with everyone in and around the team knew.

It is speculation, but most are extrapolating Q cannot be hired by the same reports. Kane is certainly in trouble with points of this. I honestly don’t see it influencing Yzerman or the Ilitch family if that is who they want as coach.

Part of the problem with Quenville is that he is still trying to say he didn't know anything. Back when this got brought up a month or so ago, I linked to an interview from earlier this year where he still refused to acknowledge that he had any idea what went on.

and I don't know who Stan actually told, but I know what I would do. It's really stupid to tell people stuff they don't need to know in that situation.

 

[Steve91]

This is the first game in a few years I shut off before the 3rd period started and did something else

 

[The Zermanator]

Part of the problem with Quenville is that he is still trying to say he didn't know anything. Back when this got brought up a month or so ago, I linked to an interview from earlier this year where he still refused to acknowledge that he had any idea what went on.

and I don't know who Stan actually told, but I know what I would do. It's really stupid to tell people stuff they don't need to know in that situation.

And that would be the deal breaker for me.

If it was a situation where they hired him and confronted the issue head on, with Quenneville showing remorse and acknowledging the harm and his part in it, and vowing to address it appropriately in the future, that's one thing.

But continuing to profess his innocence in the matter makes him just as guilty now as he was at the time, in my view. I don't want that stain on the Red Wings.

Kane has been brought up a lot in here, and it's certainly a legitimate point to raise. I would argue that the fact that Quenneville was in a much better position to do something about it makes his role more aggravating than Kane's. If Kane did join in on the bullying towards Beach, that's reprehensible and an indictment of his character. But at the same time, if we're going to draw a line in the sand at homophobic bullying, we're probably going to be ruling out 70%+ of the players in the league.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

This board has always given Larkin a pass. If you are looking for common denominators, he is the one constant through all of this. Perhaps he struggles holding guys accountable or doesn't want that responsibility. He is without question our best and most important forward. This year, however, he really has not been that good game to game, shift to shift and started slow.

This idea that "motivation" comes from the coaching staff is one of the dumbest notions floating around this board. This isn't high school JV football in Brighton. Buy-in, sure, but motivation, never. In pro sports the motivations are checks and championships. Which is why internal accountability is so important. My working theory on the season is that everyone in the room knew that we overachieved last year. They also knew we did not get better on paper over the summer. When no reinforcements came, they folded like a lawn chair.


It would be the right move even though it would set us back four years. I can't imagine Nashville doing it though.

IMHO this has been the entire organization since Holland/Blashill were here...Dats/Hank/Lids - as soon as those 3 left - the team nosedived and has been a dumpster fire ever since.

Larkin won't win the Cup as long as he remains a Detroit Red Wing...Just some brutal hard facts.

There was reluctance to give Larkin the C initially, wasn't there?

The thing is, I remember all these things being said about Yzerman before he won a Cup, and he had a lot more talent around him.

I don't agree that coaches should get a pass because checks and championships are supposed to motivate players, but that isn't the case for the captain.

I actually think Larkin hit the nail on the head in post game presser. It's not that they're not working hard it just doesn't amount to anything because they're "disconnected."

There is zero chemistry between anyone. There is no puck support. There is no trust in teammates so guys leave their coverage trying to do too much. The team has no identity as to what kind of hockey they play.

Last season for multiple stretches the wings actually had some belief that they could come back and win games. But right now this roster is playing less than the sum of its parts.

I was reluctant to hop on the "Fire Lalonde" train but it sure looks like in his goal of cutting down on Goals Against, he completely destroyed this team.

 

[heyfolks]

The team has no identity whatsoever...

I said 10 games into the season..

They're not fast, skilled, or big

They're not experienced or youthful

They don't out work you, they don't forecheck relentlessly, it's not puck possession nor counterstrike

They're not resilent

The locker room must be an absolute disaster..

The buck stops at the top and it's time he takes some ownership of the issues and actively addresses them

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Part of the problem with Quenville is that he is still trying to say he didn't know anything. Back when this got brought up a month or so ago, I linked to an interview from earlier this year where he still refused to acknowledge that he had any idea what went on.

and I don't know who Stan actually told, but I know what I would do. It's really stupid to tell people stuff they don't need to know in that situation.

In the independent report it was established by multiple people that were in the meeting, Bowman included, that not only was Quenneville there when they discussed Aldrich but he said he didn't want the "distraction."

Also, Quenneville was completely uncooperative during the investigation.

 

[JediOrderPizza]

In the independent report it was established by multiple people that were in the meeting, Bowman included, that not only was Quenneville there when they discussed Aldrich but he said he didn't want the "distraction."

Also, Quenneville was completely uncooperative during the investigation.

I'll post it as many times as needed. But hiding it during the cup run was some mega scumbag shit already. But the Q gave him a good performance review AFTER!

Aldrich sexual assault scandal hits home far from Blackhawks

When Brad Aldrich brought the Stanley Cup home to northern Michigan, it was front-page news in a community that proudly calls itself the birthplace of professional hockey.

apnews.com

“If we had known that (was) the reason he was let go with the Blackhawks, he wouldn’t have been working with our high school kids and stuff like that,” Markham said. “So that’s very disappointing that they didn’t notify anyone.”

f*** the Hawks, f*** Q forever.

 

[Realgud]

I don't know about you guys but the first thing I look for in a coach is someone who isn't afraid to call something as serious as sexual assault/bullying a "distraction" to not have to do anything about it. Definitely signs of a great leader.

 

[Oddbob]

If Q had at least admitted he knew and made a mistake, I would be ok giving him a second chance. However he doubled down by doing nothing about it and then saying he didn't even know it, just like Kane and Toews did. If minor people in the organization knew about it, the stars and coach of the team knew about it. Then to make it worse, he gave the guy a freaking glowing review just months later which helped him get another job in the industry.

 

[LongTimeDRWF]

Red Wings GM Trying to Get Coaching Change Approved [Report]

According to a report by ESPN's Greg Wyshynski, Red Wings GM Steve Yzerman is trying to get a coaching change approved.

www.newsnow.com

For what it worth… Jim is usually a little reliable

 

[Winger98]

Red Wings GM Trying to Get Coaching Change Approved [Report]

According to a report by ESPN's Greg Wyshynski, Red Wings GM Steve Yzerman is trying to get a coaching change approved.

www.newsnow.com

For what it worth… Jim is usually a little reliable

and the hold-up might be Ilitch is unwilling to pay for the buyout...

 

[raymond23]

This Chris Illitch situation is getting really concerning considering the Tigers offseason…

A cheap owner is scary news