GDT: Game 30 1/2: Coyotes @ Ducks - 7pm (AZ) - FSA - (redacted)

[Jakey53]

It's fine you want shot of OEL. I agree he looks burned out and demotivated. The numbers look bad. That's all valid.

The point I'm really trying to make is if you get shot of him, you're left with literally just Chychrun and two rookies in Soderstrom and Provolnev. That's just a massive headache you dont need. Every agent and GM you then have to deal with will see you stuck over a barrel and they wont be looking to do you a favour.

Not to mention the poor track record we have in attracting FA's. We dont get to have the pick of the market. What would actually happen is we'd get some FA that the top teams have discarded and then sell off the rest of our cap space for more futures. If that's your strategy then that works.

I don't think OEL looks burned out or demotivated. He's such an intelligent and smart player he makes it look like he's not trying. Watch his passing. He is by far the best passing D we have on the team. I do think physically he is worn down a bit, but this is where we have to gjve him more help, and Chick is the start. If we trade OEL, we are putting Chick in the same position we put OEL in when we traded Yandle. I warned everyone on this board last year that our D was not as good as everyone thought because of goal tending, and this year we are seeing really how bad it has become. I would only trade OEL for flexibility if we can get a good D in a trade.

 

[Jakey53]

I think you are overrating his overall impact, which makes it feel like replacing him is harder than it really would be. Some very good D have signed for less than what half OEL gets this past summer, and it's likely to be that way this coming summer as well.

Again, they don't need to woo the best guy on the market with a super flashy presentation ala Petro. They just need to make a few smart mid tier signings. I don't think they'll have any problem attracting a couple middle pair guys with fair term and AAV.

I'm tired of attracting mid tier guys. We have being do that for years.

 

[Jakey53]

I view the two as independent. Mainly because of OEL's NMC and overall trend downward.

OEL has the largest cash burden the next 3 years and I don't rate his play highly. I think he's putting out at around a 3-4m clip at best. If any team wanted him and he was willing to waive, I would opt out of that deal, given the sheer amount of risk it represents for six more years. Also, I want the captaincy back without any drama.

He has a NMC, so theoretically you can be stuck with this contract until it expires or you can stomach a buyout. If you get a chance to get an expensive NMC player off your roster that isn't earning his full keep, you have to take it IMO. If you divorce yourself from the emotion involved with the player, it's the right thing to do in terms of getting a few assets and managing risk.

I think there's a greater than 50% chance OEL doesn't answer any phone calls this summer and simply shows up to camp to greet a new coach, so you might just get your wish.

How much longer are we going to keep on complaining about OEL's contract? As of right now he is over paid, Chick is under paid, it evens out pretty well. Every team has a contract or two that the player is getting more than their play, and visa versa. Get use to it.

 

[cobra427]

How much longer are we going to keep on complaining about OEL's contract? As of right now he is over paid, Chick is under paid, it evens out pretty well. Every team has a contract or two that the player is getting more than their play, and visa versa. Get use to it.

OEL isn't willing to wave and we shouldn't trade him anyway. OEL is still a top pairing D and our best SAHD. because of the NHL salary structure, UFAs are over paid, and RFAs are under paid. At the time we signed OEL, it didn't look like a bad deal. I think he is suffering under RT, that ends after this year. Keep in mind Chych was over paid at first, he wasn't that good and had injuries.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

OEL is still a top pairing D and our best SAHD.

That right there is the problem. OEL isn't a natural stay-at-home defenseman. His value is in being an offensive defenseman. At his prime, as a PMD, he was a top-pairing D. If he's playing as a SAHD, he's 2nd pairing at best.

The value proposition between OEL's and Chychrun's contracts run opposite to each other. Chychrun is maturing into his contract. OEL is aging out of his.

 

[Jakey53]

That right there is the problem. OEL isn't a natural stay-at-home defenseman. His value is in being an offensive defenseman. At his prime, as a PMD, he was a top-pairing D. If he's playing as a SAHD, he's 2nd pairing at best.

The value proposition between OEL's and Chychrun's contracts run opposite to each other. Chychrun is maturing into his contract. OEL is aging out of his.

Chick is playing fantastic, thank the good lord, but this is the first year he is playing above our expectations, but next year could be quite different. He's going in the right direction no doubt, but one year does not make a career. Look at the bumpy road Keller has been on, and he is playing wing not D. The thing is, good D don't grow on trees, OEL and Chick are really all we have that is worth a damn. Until we can find a D that is as good and younger than OEL I don't want to trade him. I don't want every team hammering Chick like they have with OEL the last number of years.

 

[cobra427]

That right there is the problem. OEL isn't a natural stay-at-home defenseman. His value is in being an offensive defenseman. At his prime, as a PMD, he was a top-pairing D. If he's playing as a SAHD, he's 2nd pairing at best.

The value proposition between OEL's and Chychrun's contracts run opposite to each other. Chychrun is maturing into his contract. OEL is aging out of his.

Disagree, OEL is still top pairing and at .5+ per game. He can't be as offensive as he would like with Demers/Bush as his pairing, has to cover for them. Get him a decent 1RD and his goal scoring will be better. RFA value is always better than UFA value contracts, thats the NHL structure. Let's see if Chych can stay healthy an repeat his performance, its been 30 games only (so far).

 

[Schemp]

The priority is to get Chychrun a partner, not OEL. Match up Soderstrom with Oliver and get Chychrun a solid #1 RHD with some physicality. I would also still like to sign Adam Larsson and see if Hjmarlsson will re-sign to a #7D contract.

 

[Jakey53]

The priority is to get Chychrun a partner, not OEL. Match up Soderstrom with Oliver and get Chychrun a solid #1 RHD with some physicality. I would also still like to sign Adam Larsson and see if Hjmarlsson will re-sign to a #7D contract.

Forget Larsson, we have that new 26 yo. Russian kid coming over that everyone wants him penciled in as one of our top six.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Forget Larsson, we have that new 26 yo. Russian kid coming over that everyone wants him penciled in as one of our top six.

If we could find a version of Provolnev who can actually skate, that wouldn't be a bad idea for an OEL partner. Someone defensively responsible with offensive/puck moving upside who can free OEL up to do what he's best at.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

You guys are dismissing Provolnev all together without even seeing the kid play. He finished in the top 30 in scoring amongst Dmen and finished as a +6 on a team that finished middle of the pack. Why don't we let the kid come in and see what he has before we dismiss him as a nothing.

Do people really think that our D-squad is that brilliant that this guy couldn't possibly be an upgrade? OEL/Chychrun are all we have in terms of top 4 Dmen. Everyone else on the squad is at best bottom pair, at worst 7th Dman.

 

[Jamieh]

You guys are dismissing Provolnev all together without even seeing the kid play. He finished in the top 30 in scoring amongst Dmen and finished as a +6 on a team that finished middle of the pack. Why don't we let the kid come in and see what he has before we dismiss him as a nothing.

Do people really think that our D-squad is that brilliant that this guy couldn't possibly be an upgrade? OEL/Chychrun are all we have in terms of top 4 Dmen. Everyone else on the squad is at best bottom pair, at worst 7th Dman.

Look up the guy who came over for the Leafs last year, he couldn't even make the lineup. And he scored a ton in the KHL

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

Look up the guy who came over for the Leafs last year, he couldn't even make the lineup. And he scored a ton in the KHL

Ok, so 1 player makes a trend?...don't think so. Toronto's guy was a sub 6'0 playmaking Dman, who was probably used heavily on the PP and in offensive situations and didn't play a whole lot of defense. Our guy is 6'3'' and is probably not used on the PP, he gets his points via 5 on 5. Our guy is probably used more as a Defensive Dman, so I think it's apples & oranges.

Does his success in KHL indicate he'll have success in the NHL? Nope, but lets not dismiss him out of the gate before we even see him play.

 

[Jakey53]

You guys are dismissing Provolnev all together without even seeing the kid play. He finished in the top 30 in scoring amongst Dmen and finished as a +6 on a team that finished middle of the pack. Why don't we let the kid come in and see what he has before we dismiss him as a nothing.

Do people really think that our D-squad is that brilliant that this guy couldn't possibly be an upgrade? OEL/Chychrun are all we have in terms of top 4 Dmen. Everyone else on the squad is at best bottom pair, at worst 7th Dman.

So, you expect Provolnev to come over here and be top four, having never played in NA, never drafted? Has had one good year in the KHL and now he is the second coming of Bobby Orr.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

So, you expect Provolnev to come over here and be top four, having never played in NA, never drafted? Has had one good year in the KHL and now he is the second coming of Bobby Orr.

Nope, I have 'zero' expectations. I'm going to wait and evaluate him after he plays. I'm just not going to discount him like so many of you are doing before he even suits up for us.

 

[Jakey53]

Ok, so 1 player makes a trend?...don't think so. Toronto's guy was a sub 6'0 playmaking Dman, who was probably used heavily on the PP and in offensive situations and didn't play a whole lot of defense. Our guy is 6'3'' and is probably not used on the PP, he gets his points via 5 on 5. Our guy is probably used more as a Defensive Dman, so I think it's apples & oranges.

Does his success in KHL indicate he'll have success in the NHL? Nope, but lets not dismiss him out of the gate before we even see him play.

I think what Jameih is saying that the KHL success does not equal NHL success.

 

[Jakey53]

Nope, I have 'zero' expectations. I'm going to wait and evaluate him after he plays. I'm just not going to discount him like so many of you are doing before he even suits up for us.

Happy you have zero expectations, because that is likely what you will get. If he can't be top 4, what good is he? I want top 4. I thought we were done dumpster diving, I guess not.

 

[MIGs Dog]

I think what Jameih is saying that the KHL success does not equal NHL success.

Neither does CHL, NCAA, AHL, SHL, etc.

 

[slv]

Lots of OEL talk here. I add my 5 cent.

I dont get than hype on Chick and that hate for OEL.

Chick 21 pts in 31 games = 0.68 per game
Ollie 12 pts in 21 games = 0.57 per game

so much gap?

As I see it right Chic played roughly 86 minutes in PP and Ollie spent about 42 minutes in this situation.
Chic produced 7 pp points.
Ollie produced 6 pp points.

Really? Twice as much time and difference only 1 point? I wish Ollie had that love, I wish Ollie had that trust. But everyone loves Chic, and everyone hates OEL.

Dont get me wrong, I like Chic, because of his skating he can join the rush do great things and quickly get back in defence. But for the PP - not so much, he is predictable there and too many of his shots is missing the net.

I just tired of this situation. After Tocchett called out Ollie not vocal captain, after Gambo shenanigans, I am rooting hard for Ollie. I wish all that chokers to go DStepan route. ---> OUT

 

[moosemeister]

OEL - Larsson
Chychrun - Soderstrom
Oesterle - Bush
Provolnev/Capo/Bigger UFA D-man/Gross.

Keep the term for Oesterle and Bushy low.

 

[TheLegend]

Look up the guy who came over for the Leafs last year, he couldn't even make the lineup. And he scored a ton in the KHL

So the Leafs misused him.... wouldn't be the first time.

 

[Jakey53]

Neither does CHL, NCAA, AHL, SHL, etc.

We didn't say it does.

 

[MIGs Dog]

We didn't say it does.

The point is that every prospect is signed before they prove they can play in the NHL regardless of where they come from. This signing is low risk.

 

[Jamieh]

So the Leafs misused him.... wouldn't be the first time.

I was thinking more "if he can't make that lineup"........

 

[TheLegend]

I was thinking more "if he can't make that lineup"........

Oh I know.... think most is these teams look at the KHL as a crap shoot. If they can pluck a gem from it it’s great. Big reward with little risk.