GDT: Game 23: San Jose Sharks @ LA Kings | Wed, Nov 30 2016 - 7:30PM

[KingsFan7824]

All the Sharks care about is beating the Kings. So it's not really a surprise they put so much effort into doing it. I don't think the Kings care as much about beating them except for the 2pts. Kings beat the Sharks in the most embarrassing way possible. Can't top it.

I guess that showed in the playoffs last year when 2 points weren't on the line. Or in the last 6 home games where they're 0-6, and outscored 26-12. Or their 6-11 overall record since that 0-3 comeback, and 2-7 home record in that 17 game span. Or their 3-9 overall record since that meaningless win on the last day of the year in 14-15 when both teams were already eliminated.

It's good that the Kings don't get up for these games I guess. Makes the losses, especially on home ice, easier to swallow. We'll always have PTSD Thornton.

 

[lexlavender]

Was at the Game last night with my roommate who's a Sharks fan. I thought we played pretty well outside of huge defensive lapses in the first. Couture's goal might have been the worst defensive performance I've seen all season, with everyone just standing around doing nothing. But the other two periods were solidly ours I think, and even parts of the first we were playing very well. I think with Quick in net this game goes to OT.

Gravel is starting to show his green horns more and more. Our defense will be very solid once McNabb comes back. Greene was a trainwreck as well, should have put Gilbert in. Gaborik was very good, made offense on every line he was on. Kopitar was solid too, just his anchors can't keep up with him. 70's line and Dowd line had a lot of chances.

I'm not too worried for this season. We'll make playoffs but we're not making noise.

 

[KingsFan7824]

We need a real 1st line R Winger- a la Justin Williams style. Someone who will show up when it matters. I don't blame DL for letting him go, but we never replaced that position. Gaborik is too streaky and while has flashes of brilliance, we need a better upgrade and Stone Hands Lewis doesn't cut it there. It's easier to shut out Kopitar when you have ghost playing along side him. There needs to be a duel threat to keep opposing D Men on their heels. Otherwise, it simplifies our offense and provides crap scoring chances which are always from the perimeter.

That cap space is going to Brown. They're not getting another proven top line winger until that space opens up. Plus Gaborik, and they have to pay Toffoli and Pearson. Kopitar got the raise, which was about equal to what Williams signed for in Washington for 2 years.

Either they put Brown back with Kopitar and Gaborik, try Purcell there, maybe Setoguchi, or it's King/Lewis on the wing once those two get put back together. Nobody is coming up from Ontario soon either.

 

[lexlavender]

also as an addition to my last post, I can tell from my Sharks Fan Roommate that he even he thought that the game was a lot closer than it seemed.

 

[HookKing]

No need to blame the World Cup. Kopitar has gone on long goal droughts/looking tired all the time before. Just last year he had 1 goal in the last 12 regular season games. Gaborik gets hurt. Just a fact, and a matter of when. Could've happened in the 1st period of the season like Quick. Speaking of, Quick has been hurt before as well, and in the first 19 minutes of the season, didn't look any worse for the wear. Muzzin, he barely played in the WC, and looks like he put on skates for the first time this year most of the time. Maybe he was rusty not playing in the WC, but we're 2 months into the season now. Doughty? Most of Team Canada seems to be doing alright in the league so far. Bergeron isn't doing what he normally does. Thornton is a bit down in points, but he's also like 82 years old.

The problem with the World Cup is it threw everyone's routine off. Pro athletes are creatures of habit. I remember Jason Allison remarking one year how missing training camp negatively impacted his play the whole year.

Doughty and Kopitar were great in the tournament yet once the season started they've been total crap. Muzzin has been even worse. Its a miracle that the Kings are still in the hunt since the team's best players aren't (other than Carter who didn't go). Gaborik and Quick will likely benefit from a shortened season. Kopitar probably isn't 100% although we pretty much say that every year when he slumps.

 

[KingsFan7824]

The problem with the World Cup is it threw everyone's routine off. Pro athletes are creatures of habit. I remember Jason Allison remarking one year how missing training camp negatively impacted his play the whole year.

Doughty and Kopitar were great in the tournament yet once the season started they've been total crap. Muzzin has been even worse. Its a miracle that the Kings are still in the hunt since the team's best players aren't (other than Carter who didn't go). Gaborik and Quick will likely benefit from a shortened season. Kopitar probably isn't 100% although we pretty much say that every year when he slumps.

I could buy the World Cup stuff if it was a league wide thing. The large majority of players that played don't seem to be having any issues. A couple here and there, but it's every guy on this team. Gaborik and Quick are a bit different, but the other 3, come on.

We've seen Kopitar go from Game 7 against Anaheim to the end of the 14-15 season, 91 games, and score 16 goals. Like you said, we're always thinking he's hurt when he probably isn't. Maybe the Kings ask too much of him, but when you take up that much cap space, it's that much more difficult to bring in help.

Does Doughty have a routine? Maybe he does, I don't know, but he seems like the loosiest goose in the league after Burns. In the playoffs last year, alright, no Martinez, he's playing with Scuderi, he's going to look not as good. Martinez is healthy now though, and the rest of the defense seems to have a little more ability, but he's still off. Is that from a couple weeks in the World Cup? Does Burns have a WC hangover? Karlsson? Weber? He's playing fewer minutes per game from the last couple years. A little bit less time on the PK than a few other years. Maybe it's the World Cup, maybe it's Budaj instead of Quick and trying too much to compensate, maybe it's a greater leadership role.

Muzzin? I don't even know what's going on there.

 

[Omni Owl]

The World Cup is ******** and ultimately does effect the players, we saw this directly with Gaborik getting injured. Its too much wear and tear on our guys for little to no gain. It has an impact whether you want to believe it or not.

 

[kingsholygrail]

The World Cup could be interesting if it was competitive but it was pretty sad to watch Canada just steamroll everyone and not even care about winning it.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Didn't a bunch of Sharks players participate in the World Cup as well? I don't know if I buy that excuse...

Also, the Kings have scored one goal in each of their losses against the Sharks this season.

The Kings find ways to beat themselves, as they did in with their mental lapses in the 1st period and their inability to do anything in the 3rd period.

Drew Doughty has also been one of the biggest problems for the Kings. Can't think of many occasions this season where we can pinpoint him as a reason why the team won. Perhaps winning that Norris Trophy made him get a bit too comfortable.

 

[BigKing]

This theory that SJ just gets up for these games as the reason for LA's continued losses in the series is ridiculous.

We'll always have the reverse sweep, but SJ is kicking the Kings' ass pretty much ever since and it isn't because they just get really pumped up for games against LA.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

This theory that SJ just gets up for these games as the reason for LA's continued losses in the series is ridiculous.

We'll always have the reverse sweep, but SJ is kicking the Kings' ass pretty much ever since and it isn't because they just get really pumped up for games against LA.

Plus it's not like the Sharks outplayed the Kings. They just took advantage of the Kings' derpiness. That empty net goal pretty much emphasized that. Carter blindly threw the puck that was intercepted by the Sharks and we see that empty net goal heading towards the net in slow motion.

I'm more in wonderment of what goes through Sutter's head when he sees some pep in Gaborik's step yet he doesn't decide to move him up with Kopitar until the later stages of the game. Seems like Kopitar needs someone to get him going. You know there's something wrong when King and Lewis are creating more scoring opportunities than the $10 million dollar man.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

This theory that SJ just gets up for these games as the reason for LA's continued losses in the series is ridiculous.

We'll always have the reverse sweep, but SJ is kicking the Kings' ass pretty much ever since and it isn't because they just get really pumped up for games against LA.

They did it before 2012-2014, as well. Aside from the Canucks, the Sharks were our worst enemy, they just had our number.

These are the ONLY games I really question what Sutter is doing, especially after last year's playoffs. Most of it is on the players, especially our best ones, but I've never seen this team look as lost as a group and coaching staff as every Sharks game since 2014.

 

[Omni Owl]

Plus it's not like the Sharks outplayed the Kings. They just took advantage of the Kings' derpiness. That empty net goal pretty much emphasized that. Carter blindly threw the puck that was intercepted by the Sharks and we see that empty net goal heading towards the net in slow motion.

I'm more in wonderment of what goes through Sutter's head when he sees some pep in Gaborik's step yet he doesn't decide to move him up with Kopitar until the later stages of the game. Seems like Kopitar needs someone to get him going. You know there's something wrong when King and Lewis are creating more scoring opportunities than the $10 million dollar man.

Its baffling. And remember, Sutter kept the 4th line out there a second time after SJ iced it, when he should have rotated the group. Instead, they get trapped in their own zone which leads to the second goal.

 

[Little Psycho]

The Kings are extremely fortunate to be in the position they are considering the three best players on the team have either been massively disappointing or injured

True

 

[AlphaBravo]

I like Sutter and think he is a great coach, but he is more stubborn than a mule. He is so set in his ways and his love of certain bottom 6ers that he is willing to play Lewis and King on the top line with Kopitar instead of Gaborik. Its such a waste of cap space and talent to have Kopitar with Mr. Molasses and Mr. Stone hands. I wish Lombardi would trade King and Lewis just to stop Sutter from playing them on the top line.

 

[Fishhead]

Gabork should absolutely be with Kopitar. I get wanting to ease a guy in, but man Sutter perplexes me sometimes. I did notice that Gaborik was far more dangerous when he was on the 4th line. Hopefully they get plenty of practice time during the time off and come back with some chemistry.

Also, the third line hasn't been doing much lately, so it might be the perfect time to move Brown up and jumble the 3rd and 4th so we actually have 4 complete lines.

 

[kingsholygrail]

I like Sutter and think he is a great coach, but he is more stubborn than a mule. He is so set in his ways and his love of certain bottom 6ers that he is willing to play Lewis and King on the top line with Kopitar instead of Gaborik. Its such a waste of cap space and talent to have Kopitar with Mr. Molasses and Mr. Stone hands. I wish Lombardi would trade King and Lewis just to stop Sutter from playing them on the top line.

Certain bottom sixers? Why not name them? You don't work for the org do you?

 

[Trolfoli]

Ok let me try and help here.

King/Lewis are with Kopitar because Kopitar is being played against the other teams top 6. It isn't fair to Gaborik to have him come off an injury and think he's going to be fully up to speed with regard to defense in his second game back. This is why he's not with Kopitar.

Also the Sharks aren't beating the Kings because they're up for the game and the Kings aren't. The Sharks are winning because they're the better team. They have the skill to expose players on the Kings team like Forbort & Muzzin. Yes Muzzin missed on a hit trying to stand up at the blue line last night and gave up a goal for it. The Kings just don't have a defense capable of shutting the Sharks down.

 

[AlphaBravo]

Ok let me try and help here.

King/Lewis are with Kopitar because Kopitar is being played against the other teams top 6. It isn't fair to Gaborik to have him come off an injury and think he's going to be fully up to speed with regard to defense in his second game back. This is why he's not with Kopitar.

Also the Sharks aren't beating the Kings because they're up for the game and the Kings aren't. The Sharks are winning because they're the better team. They have the skill to expose players on the Kings team like Forbort & Muzzin. Yes Muzzin missed on a hit trying to stand up at the blue line last night and gave up a goal for it. The Kings just don't have a defense capable of shutting the Sharks down.

The Sharks are a good and deep team. But we have beaten other good teams before this season (e.g., Hawks, Pens). The Sharks, however, appear to have a game plan on how to specifically beat the Kings. Pete Deboer lost to the Kings in 2012, and the Sharks organization lost to the Kings in the playoffs for two seasons. The combination of these two events has driven the coach and organization to develop a specific strategy on beating the Kings. I don't know if they specifically staffed their roster to be competitive against the Kings, or Deboer has developed a sound game plan for beating a Sutter system, but it is working. And if we face in the playoffs, the results will likely be the same as last year unless Sutter cracks Deboer's code.

 

[AlphaBravo]

Certain bottom sixers? Why not name them? You don't work for the org do you?

Haha. Yeah, Lewis and King. If Lombardi trades these players, I think Sutter will go into depression.

 

[deeshamrock]

Ok let me try and help here.

King/Lewis are with Kopitar because Kopitar is being played against the other teams top 6. It isn't fair to Gaborik to have him come off an injury and think he's going to be fully up to speed with regard to defense in his second game back. This is why he's not with Kopitar.

Also the Sharks aren't beating the Kings because they're up for the game and the Kings aren't. The Sharks are winning because they're the better team. They have the skill to expose players on the Kings team like Forbort & Muzzin. Yes Muzzin missed on a hit trying to stand up at the blue line last night and gave up a goal for it. The Kings just don't have a defense capable of shutting the Sharks down.

That's part of it, but Jon Rosen asked Sutter today why Gabby isn't playing with Kopi and other line decisions and his answer was multifaceted (shocker!)

https://lakingsinsider.com/2016/12/01/what-determines-when-and-how-gaborik-plays-alongside-kopitar/

From his long answer:

“You know what? As we go forward and Gabby, we see some improvement, then we’re going to give him an opportunity to play with Kopi. I think that he’s going to have to score to be able to do that, and he’s going to have to check

about that fourth line and determined by who is scoring and who isn't.

We’ve got lots of guys who can play on the fourth line. You know what? That depends on our opponent. We have five or six guys that are going to go in and out of the lineup and play on our fourth line. That’s something based on how much they contribute in terms of scoring and things like that …

I can't say I agree, I get that Kopi isn't 100% yet but he has more success and zone time with Gabby. And if Sutter wants more scoring, as he aluded to , than Kopi, King and Lewis isn't the answer.

 

[Trolfoli]

The Sharks are a good and deep team. But we have beaten other good teams before this season (e.g., Hawks, Pens). The Sharks, however, appear to have a game plan on how to specifically beat the Kings. Pete Deboer lost to the Kings in 2012, and the Sharks organization lost to the Kings in the playoffs for two seasons. The combination of these two events has driven the coach and organization to develop a specific strategy on beating the Kings. I don't know if they specifically staffed their roster to be competitive against the Kings, or Deboer has developed a sound game plan for beating a Sutter system, but it is working. And if we face in the playoffs, the results will likely be the same as last year unless Sutter cracks Deboer's code.

Yeah they figured it out. Go right at the rookie defensman and capitalize when Muzzin screws up.

I can't say I agree, I get that Kopi isn't 100% yet but he has more success and zone time with Gabby. And if Sutter wants more scoring, as he aluded to , than Kopi, King and Lewis isn't the answer.

Don't believe anything Sutter says about increasing scoring. If it were up to him he'd win every game 0-1 in OT.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The Sharks are a good and deep team. But we have beaten other good teams before this season (e.g., Hawks, Pens). The Sharks, however, appear to have a game plan on how to specifically beat the Kings. Pete Deboer lost to the Kings in 2012, and the Sharks organization lost to the Kings in the playoffs for two seasons. The combination of these two events has driven the coach and organization to develop a specific strategy on beating the Kings. I don't know if they specifically staffed their roster to be competitive against the Kings, or Deboer has developed a sound game plan for beating a Sutter system, but it is working. And if we face in the playoffs, the results will likely be the same as last year unless Sutter cracks Deboer's code.

I generally agree with this but last night's game had a whole different feel. It was a very even game, we weren't getting wrecked like we were last year. In fact, if we didn't ring a bunch of posts and burns didn't bail Jones out on Lewis earlier in the game, we're not even having these conversations.

I'm still with you on organizational vengeance and DeBoer's preparation to whoop the Kings is > Sutter right now and that will have to be figured out for the playoffs--but why put all your cards on the table now anyway. We didn't look broken last night, just brainfarty while coming out of our injuries (Gaborik recovering, Kopitar not full steam, still no Quick, mcnabb, andreoff) while the Sharks aren't dealing with anything. It was a good, close game that could easily have gone either way which is more than I can say for most of our recent games with them.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Yeah they figured it out. Go right at the rookie defensman and capitalize when Muzzin screws up.

Don't believe anything Sutter says about increasing scoring. If it were up to him he'd win every game 0-1 in OT.

I dare you to go one post without trying to bait people with your senseless Forbort hate

I think our defensive mobility looks words better than when they were dumping the puck directly at guys like Schenn and Scuderi....ugh.

 

[Trolfoli]

I dare you to go one post without trying to bait people with your senseless Forbort hate

I think our defensive mobility looks words better than when they were dumping the puck directly at guys like Schenn and Scuderi....ugh.

I don't hate Forbort. Just he's a rookie and no where near ready to be part of a shutdown first pair come playoffs. People get caught up in a 5 game win streak during the regular season and forget there are structural issues with the team.

The mobility is better then with Schenn/Scuderi, but Sutter hockey is about low scoring and limiting chances against. The Kings played great with the exception of some defensive breakdowns. A few of those were able to be saved by Budaj, but not all. Can't win tight games giving up the type of chances the Kings gave up last night.

Edit: I like Forbort's game better then Muzzin and am hoping he makes Muzzin redundant at some point.