GDT: GAME 21 | Sens Flaming Out in Prime Time | Mon Nov 25 2024, 7:30PM | Prime Video

[Golden_Jet]

Yep, the image quality was miles ahead of the garbage on Sportsnet or TSN. It might not matter on some TVs, but on a 77" OLED, the difference was unreal.

The boomers at the NHL needs to pull their heads out of their ass and get on board with proper streaming services. Nobody uses cable anymore.

Good point on TV,
I was also watching on an OLED.

 

[swiftwin]

My other peeve with the Sportsnet+ app is the fact that the audio always goes out of sync after a while. I basically have to restart the stream during every commercial break.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I'm not doubting that. Rogers and Bell have decades of live entertainment experience. Amazon puts in a ton of money into their tv platform but the majority isn't live sports. I'm just making a point that their market cap isn't the reason they put together a superior quality hockey broadcast. The post I quoted using "net worth" is ridiculous. The program was good because they cared to make it good. Rogers and Bell simply don't give a shit, they've got plenty of money to do it, they just don't want to.

No, it's not specifically, but I think they're clearly willing to take a loss on it to break into the market, like Microsoft has done with Gamepass. The bigger the coffers, the easier it is to do that. Amazon has gotten so big there's no stopping that train, no matter the industry, so whatevs.

 

[Micklebot]

They all use compression, the difference is Amazon is 4K and uses HDR,
TSN and Sportsnet upscale to 4K, on their games, with a select few recorded in 4K on TSN.
Sportsnet does 1 or 2 games a night in upscaled 4K, TSN, 1 or 2 a week. (Cable/fibe)

Audio wise, Prime has Dolby Atmos if you have a system that can support it.

Overall it’s just better.

Yes, they all use compression, but not the same compression. Cable broadcasters typically use the H.264 codec while streams typically use the H.265 codec which means they can have the same video quality at roughly half the bitrate. If they use the same bitrate, they will increase the quality.

 

[Big Muddy]

Yep, the image quality was miles ahead of the garbage on Sportsnet or TSN. It might not matter on some TVs, but on a 77" OLED, the difference was unreal.

The boomers at the NHL needs to pull their heads out of their ass and get on board with proper streaming services. Nobody uses cable anymore.

I suppose that might be a more Canadian specific POV.

Depending on where you live in the U.S., streaming packages won’t provide a lot of the games because of broadcast rights. Games on NHL Network, MSG1, MSG2, TBS, TNT etc are games you wouldn’t get.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Yes that obviously the case, in order to have the best picture quality, among NA broadcasts.
especially with Amazon using 60fps.

Ya those must be some hefty bandwidth requirements. 4K HDR 60 fps with Dolby Atmos is a nice end product to get though. Agreed with you guys on the OLED, or quality of displays in general. I have an LG OLED in the house, 85" Sony LED, and a JVC projector. There is no comparison and you don't want to feed them junk, so on this we definitely agree, these other providers need to step up their game. It's long since time we should be getting that.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Ya those must be some hefty bandwidth requirements. 4K HDR 60 fps with Dolby Atmos is a nice end product to get though. Agreed with you guys on the OLED, or quality of displays in general. I have an LG OLED in the house, 85" Sony LED, and a JVC projector. There is no comparison and you don't want to feed them junk, so on this we definitely agree, these other providers need to step up their game. It's long since time we should be getting that.

I also have a Projector onto a Stewart screen, reminds me need to order a new bulb, (hmm maybe Black Friday)

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I also have a Projector onto a Stewart screen, reminds me need to order a new bulb, (hmm maybe Black Friday)

Nice! Stewart screens are the gold standard.

BF is as good a time as any to buy a new bulb. I plunked down for one of the laser models, so I'm out of that game now.

 

[swiftwin]

I suppose that might be a more Canadian specific POV.

Depending on where you live in the U.S., streaming packages won’t provide a lot of the games because of broadcast rights. Games on NHL Network, MSG1, MSG2, TBS, TNT etc are games you wouldn’t get.

That's my point. The NHL needs to pull their head out of their asses and allow/create a high quality streaming service on par with Amazon, regardless of these networks. Cable networks are dying, we don't want the NHL to go down with them.

 

[Cosmix]

It's time to call a spade a spade. Yes, goaltending has been an issue, but we brought in Amadio and Perron to be positive additions offensively to the bottom six - as well as being good pros. Same with Gregor and Cousins, but they were real cheap. I realize Perron has had issues, so it's tough to point the finger there, but those 4 guys' stats:

58 games played, 11 points, 5 goals.

And cost over 7 million dollars.

You can flip the dialogue and say Staios got Gaudette for pennies etc. , but that is why we're losing IMO. Zero bottom six scoring and it's absolutely dragging Pinto through the mud too.

Pinto must bear some of the blame for his low contribution.

Anyone know what Zub's issue is? Could it be concussion issues?

 

[Cosmix]

They all use compression, the difference is Amazon is 4K and uses HDR,
TSN and Sportsnet upscale to 4K, on their games, with a select few recorded in 4K on TSN.
Sportsnet does 1 or 2 games a night in upscaled 4K, TSN, 1 or 2 a week. (Cable/fibe)

Audio wise, Prime has Dolby Atmos if you have a system that can support it.

Overall it’s just better.

1080P upscaled to 4K is not what I want to watch. My 4k TV can do that. I want a 4K signal provided by a 4K camera. If Bell and Sportsnet are not providing that, I am not buying their so-called "4k" service.

 

[Micklebot]

Anyone know what Zub's issue is? Could it be concussion issues?

Broken foot from blocking a shot

 

[lang006]

Pinto must bear some of the blame for his low contribution.


Anyone know what Zub's issue is? Could it be concussion issues?

He got a fracture in his foot from blocking. a shot Saturday night

 

[lang006]

Is Perron injured from that Sanderson blast/dump in that hit him in the ankle?

 

[BankStreetParade]

Ok, because the quote I saw was "Bell and Rogers have more than enough funds to make as high quality a stream as Amazon does lol", but a bit further back talks more about the overall broadcast, so I think we have two parallel points being discussed.

I was seeing a lot of complaints about the TSN and Bell streaming platforms during the game, I figured that spurred some of this.

Not sure what revenue models, distribution, or media rights share has to do with whether or not Amazon can put out a good broadcast though.

Wrt the NHL, a lot of stuff is actually contracted by the broadcasters, not internal talent, so for example, it's the same cameramen regardless. A lot of expertise is basically the same regardless of whether it's TSN or SN televising the game. I imagine that is the same with Prime, they've contracted the same companies for camera work and I suspect the same directors ect as all the other broadcasters do, the difference boils down to the platform they broadcast over, and the panels and on air talent they set up.

The comment made was about the market caps of the 3 companies, as if Amazon's $2.5T market cap is relevant to their ability in sports broadcasting or even a fair apples-to-apples comparison. We have 2 legacy media conglomerates, who have owned sports-only networks for decades, versus a company whose primary revenue source is online commerce. These 2 companies are hardly at a disadvantage compared to Amazon when it comes to live sports broadcasts.

 

[Emerica]

Is Perron injured from that Sanderson blast/dump in that hit him in the ankle?

They said it was upper body

 

[Micklebot]

The comment made was about the market caps of the 3 companies, as if Amazon's $2.5T market cap is relevant to their ability in sports broadcasting or even a fair apples-to-apples comparison. We have 2 legacy media conglomerates, who have owned sports-only networks for decades, versus a company whose primary revenue source is online commerce. These 2 companies are hardly at a disadvantage compared to Amazon when it comes to live sports broadcasts.

The comment about market cap was a reply to what I quoted about stream quality and their ability to afford to match Amazon in that regard

It's fine if you approach the topic from the overall broadcast perspective, that's perfectly valid, but there is clearly two different perspectives being discussed, and while you are correct Bell and Rogers have far more experience in sports broadcasting, amazon has more experience in streaming and extensive experience in web services that could be leveraged towards their streaming quality.

 

[Golden_Jet]

1080P upscaled to 4K is not what I want to watch. My 4k TV can do that. I want a 4K signal provided by a 4K camera. If Bell and Sportsnet are not providing that, I am not buying their so-called "4k" service.

They do use both, as I mentioned,
Also TBF that’s what a poster said in the Prime thread on what resolution their giving.

But I do find some of TSN and Sportsnet telecasts are better than others in 4K, So likely that is what their doing, but can’t say for sure.
I 100% agree the networks definitely have to do better.

The 60fps HDR Prime with Dolby Atmos was better than the other two.

This is all good timing for the TV rights deal, TSN and Sportsnet are going to have to up their quality of games. Rumours are Bettman was hoping for more from Sportsnet over the 12 year deal.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I've wondered that about the "4K" from TSN and Sportsnet and if it's actually native 4k. The World Juniors is supposed to be in 4k this year.

1080P upscaled to 4K is not what I want to watch. My 4k TV can do that. I want a 4K signal provided by a 4K camera. If Bell and Sportsnet are not providing that, I am not buying their so-called "4k" service.

Tons of 4k content is upscaled, but this is live untouched video they can't use post processing on. Not all upscaling is equal. You're better off with built in display upscaling of a modern 1080 Blu-ray over some 4K streams. The quality of 4K UHD Blu-rays can vary significantly depending on the specific title and how it was produced. Many, if not the majority, are taken from 2k scans. The same would apply to their streaming counterparts. Even if a higher resolution master exists, as it usually does, they'll often just use the 2k scan. They're almost indistinguishable if post processed right, but the problem here is sports doesn't have that luxury. There's AI tools to help, but I'm not sure if those work on the fly well. Lots of discussion on the video forums about how overusing these AI tools can have negative effects, like Peter Jackson and James Cameron ruining their 4k releases, according to some.

 

[DylanSensFan]

CBC doesn't do games anymore, haven't in ages.

They technically do, under the banner of Sportsnet.

 

[PlayersLtd]

They technically do, under the banner of Sportsnet.

Yeah, so it's SN. Not under the banner, it is 100% a Roger's broadcast other than the channel on the dial. There is nothing CBC about it other than the commercials you're seeing. It has been that way for 10 years.

 

[BondraTime]

Am I seeing things right?

Did we split Chabot and Jensen up, only to pair Jensen with Kleven and keep Hamonic with Sanderson?

 

[Micklebot]

Am I seeing things right?

Did we split Chabot and Jensen up, only to pair Jensen with Kleven and keep Hamonic with Sanderson?

From the start of the Cgy Game they did that.

 

[BondraTime]

From the start of the Cgy Game they did that.

I had thought it was because of the Chabot injury leading to his 12 mins/Sanderson's 30 mins that threw them for a loop, only caught the last half of the game; I must have missed that, thanks!

 

[Big Muddy]

That's my point. The NHL needs to pull their head out of their asses and allow/create a high quality streaming service on par with Amazon, regardless of these networks. Cable networks are dying, we don't want the NHL to go down with them.

Not sure it would be the NHL that would create that service. It would probably be one or more broadcast/streaming companies like it's been in the past.

The problem that isn’t being mentioned (jmho) is the leagues (not just NHL, but other sports leagues as well) practice of selling broadcast rights to numerous companies. Sure, the NHL (NFL, etc.) makes more money that way no doubt. Then the market gets so fractured and a fan of one team needs to have multiple platforms/services (whatever you call them) just to watch those games. That gets expensive.

One of the unfortunate (lightning rod) outcomes is paying a monthly fee just to watch a few games. Prime (in the U.S.) for example just provides (16) Thursday night NFL games and a handful of NHL games which is expensive for what you get. Then you need some other platforms/services to get the rest or bulk of the games, some of which require cable (the only way you’ll be able to watch those specific games).

I agree it would be nice if the NHL created that service, but I’d doubt if they would go to that expense and hassle, and I’m not going to hold my breathe waiting for them to do it.

You have several $2 - 3 trillion dollar tech companies that will gladly do it though because they aggressively want to get into the content business.

I’m not sure the general public is best served by these uber-rich multi-trillion dollar companies creating monopolies and leveraging their wealth across multiple industries or markets. Maybe they just need to stay in their lane? These companies are already in the payment industry in addition to their core industry. and have found ways to get subscribers to pay them acting as a middleman for something they don’t even generate.

Monopolies can create serious issues. Remember when over 8.5 million MS Windows machines went down in July because of bad CrowdStrike software installed in an auto update. Many/most Window users didn’t even know they had CrowdStrike security software on their machines, yet it affected hospitals, health care, airlines, banks and millions of other businesses and users.