Pre-Game Talk: GAME #20 - Canucks vs. Kings

[slappipappi]

Same for Luongo, he needed to make the save on the 6th goal to keep it a 2 goal game, and he wasn't happy with his performance.

When you are dissecting a game to the point where you are assigning blame on the "6th" goal given up, I'm not sure it really matters.

How many games do you win when you give up even 5 goals?

It's not like the Canucks were showing much life after the Wings had 5 .

 

[JuniorNelson]

Canucks have made it through the toughest part of the schedule and lead the NW, third in the conference. They only have to make the playoffs.

Canucks are doing some things really well. We have no worries in net. The defense is thin and needs Bieksa. We knew that! Garrison is no Salo, but we knew that, too.

The forward group is a mess without an able Kesler. He isn't on his game, yet, it will take some more games. This is less of a problem than it seems. Kesler will be up to speed in a couple of weeks and the offense will return to his game.

I do not think Gillis will address the team's issues through player changes. Don't hope for a miracle trade at the deadline, Gillis is not that guy.

 

[y2kcanucks]

There's a difference between saves you need to make, and being solely at fault for the goal against. If coverage is blown, or there's a deflection on the shot, then there is blame to spread around. Was Schneider the main reason they lost to Phoenix? No, it looked like a tired team in front of him. Could he have stolen a point by making a save on the third goal? Yes.

There wasn't any last night that you could solely blame him on, but that said, the 3rd goal was stoppable. He didn't make the save, and clearly even he was frustrated with his results lately. 5-4-1 2.72 and .908 isn't the start he was looking for this season.

If he was on his game like he was for most of last season, guaranteed he makes that save. On a good night he would have stoned Chip on that backhand roofer too. Lately though, he's been getting exposed short-side and on backhanders. For someone that usually plays at a high caliber, I thought the 3rd goal was the save he needs to make. Maybe an 'average' goalie doesn't, but he holds himself to a higher standard.

Schneider wasn't solely to blame, the skaters blew their coverage for sure, but he made a mistake on that play. He thought he had his 5 hole covered but he didn't.

Same for Luongo, he needed to make the save on the 6th goal to keep it a 2 goal game, and he wasn't happy with his performance. There were plenty of deflections and weird bounces in that Detroit game, and I thought that the 6th goal was the only one that was completely on him, although there was plenty of 'partial blame' to spread around in that game and Luongo is no exception.

Do you realize the difference of making a save that you should make late in the 3rd of a 2-1 game versus middle of the 3rd of a 5-3 game? One was a clear back breaker when the team was really coming on and looking like it was going to score and tie it up, and the other was just another goal in an all around horrid game for everyone.

I don't know. Schneider needs to find a way to get on his game. Then again, his PK SV% is at 0.873 while last year it was 0.960 which was clearly due to regress to the mean. It has, and now it looks more and more like last year was a statistical anomaly (I recall this being brought up several times). This years numbers are more realistic and what you'd expect (in terms of PK SV%), and are actually in the same ball park as Rinne and Lundqvist. The only difference between these goalies is their ES SV% where Schneider has also regressed.

The biggest concern though has to be the defense. You simply cannot pay almost $20M for a top 4 core and have them make the kinds of poor mistakes they have been making. Oh yeah, they have NTC's too. Last year these mistaks were masked by outstanding goaltending that just isn't there in some games this year and this is the result. This is definitely a troublesome area where since you can't move the players maybe you have to move the coach?

Offense looks bad too. We don't look dangerous at all. I like the Schroeder like but offensively they aren't producing consistently like a second like in the absence of a real second line. That Kesler line is a complete mess. We played better hockey without Kesler this year to be honest. The Sedin line has been the only offensive threat for us.

All in all I think this game, and this past road trip has exposed our biggest weaknesses. How we respond and how Gillis approaches addressing these weaknesses will determine the outcome of the season.

 

[Grumbler]

Our first games vs pacific teams is now 0-3-1.

As I have worried about this before, what our record would be like after the 6 game win streak we had against joke teams and I am afraid I was right on my premonition. Canucks record after the win streak is 2-3-2. If they were playing in any other division in the west, they would have trouble making the playoff line at this point.

The team needs to smarten up and throw away their "we are too good to play 60 minutes" attitude and start working hard or another year would have been wasted.

 

[NYVanfan]

Canucks have made it through the toughest part of the schedule and lead the NW, third in the conference. They only have to make the playoffs.

Canucks are doing some things really well. We have no worries in net. The defense is thin and needs Bieksa. We knew that! Garrison is no Salo, but we knew that, too.

The forward group is a mess without an able Kesler. He isn't on his game, yet, it will take some more games. This is less of a problem than it seems. Kesler will be up to speed in a couple of weeks and the offense will return to his game.

I do not think Gillis will address the team's issues through player changes. Don't hope for a miracle trade at the deadline, Gillis is not that guy.

yeah, sucks to lose this grinding game, but had a feeling from the start, and whatever -- not going to go thru the whole season without ups & downs.

However, there is a consistent issue that I think does need to be addressed, and that's lack of secondary scoring. last night we were a one-line team, again. Kesler and Booth are still getting up to speed, for sure, but the Q that nags at me is, even with them healthy do we have enough scoring depth to go all the way?

I posted this elsewhere -- Daniel is the only multi-30+ goal guy on the team. All of the other top Western contenders have at least 3. They may not be guys who are scoring 30 this season AND last, but theey are guys who have done it multiple times in the past and know how to do it.

This team is rich in high-end grinders -- some of the best in the league -- and occasionally they get hot. But I am just not convinced that these guys can deliver enough scoring to go all the way.

So i guess I am looking for a homerun of sorts before the deadline, but think it can be accomplished by moving one of the goalies.... would love to get a guy like Viskovsky, and maybe upgrade one of the bottom 9 W with a good scorer ...of course we need a 3C who can win faceoffs too ....oy

 

[Crows*]

Our first games vs pacific teams is now 0-3-1.

As I have worried about this before, what our record would be like after the 6 game win streak we had against joke teams and I am afraid I was right on my premonition. Canucks record after the win streak is 2-3-2. If they were playing in any other division in the west, they would have trouble making the playoff line at this point.

The team needs to smarten up and throw away their "we are too good to play 60 minutes" attitude and start working hard.

The canucks record vs those non division teams the past couple years is very very good. They are just struggling right now

 

[Grumbler]

The canucks record vs those non division teams the past couple years is very very good. They are just struggling right now

The reason we played well against those good teams previous years is because we just feed off the goaltending. Right now we are not getting spectacular goaltending and the team won't even play for 60 minutes for a game.

 

[y2kcanucks]

The reason we played well against those good teams previous years is because we just feed off the goaltending. Right now we are not getting spectacular goaltending and the team won't even play for 60 minutes for a game.

Perhaps people are now realizing just how good our goaltending actually has been, and was completely taken for granted?

 

[Proto]

I said this last night, but I don't know how people can watch Sportsnet. The coverage is just awful in every possible way. There's no in depth analysis before the game, during the game, between periods, after the game, or between games. It's just these dumb narratives and Shorthouse and Garrett never dig deeper than half-baked theories about fatigue (that always seem to excuse the Canucks, even if it contradicts the last half-baked theory).

It just seems poorly produced and lazy to me. Ugh.

 

[StringerBell]

The canucks record vs those non division teams the past couple years is very very good. They are just struggling right now

The Canucks are 21-24 outside of the NW since the Boston game last January, including the playoff series against LA.

 

[BerSTUzzi]

I'm going to harp once again but 2 goals (1st/3rd) were a result of a typical left side dman way out of position (Alberts/Garrison). Edler finally looks comfortable in his own zone, with only a few hiccups, but that's a direct result of being back on the left side.

Time to dump a LH D for a RH D.

 

[ItsAllPartOfThePlan]

So...when is the Vermette hearing?

 

[Pip]

^ (up two posts)
yup

Ballard or Garrison? Would think Ballard would be the obvious option, but don't know how GMs value how league wide

 

[arsmaster*]

Our first games vs pacific teams is now 0-3-1.

As I have worried about this before, what our record would be like after the 6 game win streak we had against joke teams and I am afraid I was right on my premonition. Canucks record after the win streak is 2-3-2. If they were playing in any other division in the west, they would have trouble making the playoff line at this point.

The team needs to smarten up and throw away their "we are too good to play 60 minutes" attitude and start working hard or another year would have been wasted.

Isn't Anaheim in the Pacific? Didn't we destroy them 5-0 on their home ice?

 

[arsmaster*]

I'm going to harp once again but 2 goals (1st/3rd) were a result of a typical left side dman way out of position (Alberts/Garrison). Edler finally looks comfortable in his own zone, with only a few hiccups, but that's a direct result of being back on the left side.

Time to dump a LH D for a RH D.

You're blaming Garrison for the 3rd goal?

Edler is the one got pyloned by Boedker, and even Schneider thinks he should have had it.

 

[freakydave]

Isn't Anaheim in the Pacific? Didn't we destroy them 5-0 on their home ice?

Ya -5-0 wasn't that a Schneider shutout?

Last nights game was pretty disappointing the Canucks need help upfront pronto-Gillis
should be making deal-at least I hope so--

 

[Grumbler]

Isn't Anaheim in the Pacific? Didn't we destroy them 5-0 on their home ice?

I said "First" games. The only reason we beat anaheim is because the goaltending came up big the first two periods.

 

[BerSTUzzi]

You're blaming Garrison for the 3rd goal?

Edler is the one got pyloned by Boedker, and even Schneider thinks he should have had it.

No, I'm blaming the fact that Garrison's natural instinct was to move to his left farther than he needed too. I know what happened with with Edler before. I'm saying natural reaction on the ice impacts the game and playing all these D outside of their comfort level is not panning out and will not pan out for us.

 

[Outside99*]

yeah, sucks to lose this grinding game, but had a feeling from the start, and whatever -- not going to go thru the whole season without ups & downs.

However, there is a consistent issue that I think does need to be addressed, and that's lack of secondary scoring. last night we were a one-line team, again. Kesler and Booth are still getting up to speed, for sure, but the Q that nags at me is, even with them healthy do we have enough scoring depth to go all the way?

I posted this elsewhere -- Daniel is the only multi-30+ goal guy on the team. All of the other top Western contenders have at least 3. They may not be guys who are scoring 30 this season AND last, but theey are guys who have done it multiple times in the past and know how to do it.

This team is rich in high-end grinders -- some of the best in the league -- and occasionally they get hot. But I am just not convinced that these guys can deliver enough scoring to go all the way.

So i guess I am looking for a homerun of sorts before the deadline, but think it can be accomplished by moving one of the goalies.... would love to get a guy like Viskovsky, and maybe upgrade one of the bottom 9 W with a good scorer ...of course we need a 3C who can win faceoffs too ....oy

You hit the nail on the head with secondary scoring. A dumb thing AV did though was splitting up Raymond and Hansen (and Schroeder). They were playing well together and generating scoring chances.

 

[ItsAllPartOfThePlan]

You hit the nail on the head with secondary scoring. A dumb thing AV did though was splitting up Raymond and Hansen (and Schroeder). They were playing well together and generating scoring chances.

Booth has been great there as well. Just leave that line as it is and let them build chemistry

 

[Pip]

Booth has been great there as well. Just leave that line as it is and let them build chemistry

I agree but Kesler cannot be left with Higgins and Hansen.

 

[ItsAllPartOfThePlan]

I agree but Kesler cannot be left with Higgins and Hansen.

I want to see Hansen-Kesler-Kassian

 

[NYVanfan]

Booth has been great there as well. Just leave that line as it is and let them build chemistry

agreed, but then dunno why we're not seeing

Booth-Kes-Higgins
Raymond-Schroed-Hansen

the first had chemistry last year, the second this year.
yet for some reason they were all jumbled up last night (and so far) ...dont even know who played with who, other than the Sedins

 

[HighAndTight]

You hit the nail on the head with secondary scoring. A dumb thing AV did though was splitting up Raymond and Hansen (and Schroeder). They were playing well together and generating scoring chances.

It started with AV taking Kassian off the first line because, while he was scoring, the Sedins weren't(Even though they looked good together.)

I feel like there are obvious combos that almost everyone here wants to see tried for an extended time, yet aren't happening. The power play is still crap and using that damn umbrella.

 

[MikeK]

Even when we win I feel the Canucks have been a boring team to watch. There have only been a cpl of games all season that I've totally been entertained. Something is wrong with this current team. Maybe it's the system they play, maybe there are some internal issues that we don't know about or maybe it's just the fact that the window has closed. Either way, I am not liking the way the team plays. I watch every NHL game that is on TV and the Canucks style of play is terrible to sit through.