Game 2 10/14/16: Philadelphia Flyers 4 @ Los Angeles Kings 2

[Herby]

Matt Greene in the lineup...

It really is amazing. A player who was clearly slowing down in 2014, is not only brought back, but is given a FOUR YEAR CONTRACT. Then this summer he is waived to supposedly enable a buyout, yet that suddenly doesn't happen and here we are 2.5 years after he should have been gone he is still here, with his cement skates. Matt Greene is by all indications a super cool guy, his teammates, coaches, management and the fans love him, but he is nothing close to an NHL player in 2016-2017.

It's just the perfect example of how much this roster has been bungled since June 2014.

It's time to just move on from coach and GM as we enter a new post-contender stage with this team. Lombardi will have no trouble getting another job, but he has shown time and time again he is to attached to these guys. Sutter will just retire to his farm. Appreciate what both did, but the run has lasted long enough.

 

[kingsholygrail]

It really is amazing. A player who was clearly slowing down in 2014, is not only brought back, but is given a FOUR YEAR CONTRACT. Then this summer he is waived to supposedly enable a buyout, yet that suddenly doesn't happen and here we are 2.5 years after he should have been gone he is still here, with his cement skates. Matt Greene is by all indications a super cool guy, his teammates, coaches, management and the fans love him, but he is nothing close to an NHL player in 2016-2017.

It's just the perfect example of how much this roster has been bungled since June 2014.

It's time to just move on from coach and GM as we enter a new post-contender stage with this team. Lombardi will have no trouble getting another job, but he has shown time and time again he is to attached to these guys. Sutter will just retire to his farm. Appreciate what both did, but the run has lasted long enough.

So we go Rob Blake and Stevens?

 

[Herby]

So we go Rob Blake and Stevens?

I would get someone from the outside. But I do trust that Blake would not be attached and would be more willing to make the difficult decisions that clearly need to be made as we enter the rebuilding stage.

 

[KingTrouty]

@Raccoon Jesus (must say, spell check on iPhone made your name "Raccoon Jessie" ), thanks for staying positive, brotha. I had guarded optimism heading into the season, but then Quickie.

Will remain positive, but it's gonna be hard. I still think we have a hell of a D when Gravel comes up and Greene goes. LaDue maybe (but probly next year for him). We also have fwd talent coming back, and some youngins waiting to get their chance, but man, we lost Quick

Makes it hard to get too optimistic, esp with the season he was gonna have. No doubt in my mind a career year. No doubt

Please keep staying positive, it will help me stay positive

 

[KingTrouty]

So we go Rob Blake and Stevens?

Traditionally, when you fire the coach and GM you bring in a whole new regime and front office. Traditionally, not always. The new coach and GM want their own guys, not the prior regime's.

Why Fire DL and Sutter, yet keep their whole damn regime? Think about it. I'm not trying to be mean, respectfully, Grail.

just saying.

 

[KingTrouty]

I'll debate you guys about DL staying, and I won't be the ass I was before

Pinky promise

(unless you're a meanie to me )

 

[KingTrouty]

I would get someone from the outside. But I do trust that Blake would not be attached and would be more willing to make the difficult decisions that clearly need to be made as we enter the rebuilding stage.

But who's available that's competent enough to turn this team into a contender right away, like some want, or competent enough to shift a whole new philosophy into the org -- from the top/down -- minors, drafting, coaches, big club as the rebuild begins?

And why not DL be that guy? He's done damned fine building this team in the past, when he kept his picks with Futa leading the scouting calvary (yes, I know what Dave Taylor and Co did).

Do you have your eyes on some good candidates, Herby?

 

[Herby]

I would personally go hard after Jason Botterill, former NHL player, been an exec for a few years and is ready to run a team, young and highly educated, won a couple of cups as an exec with the Pens. But either way I think the time has come to go in a different direction, have a new voice both upstairs and behind the bench.

Pittsburgh and Boston both fired their GM's a few years after winning the Stanley Cup.

I don't trust Lombardi to dismantle this team because he has failed to do so, even in clear situations such as the ones discussed above. I don't know if anyone watches American Pickers, but Dean is like the 95 year old guy who knows it's time to part with his stuff before he dies, but just can't do it.

That and the Kings drafting has been horrendous this decade, I don't know if Dean realizes the league is back to being more speed and skill oriented.

I just think it's time to say thanks to Dean and Darryl but go in a different direction.

 

[KingTrouty]

I would personally go hard after Jason Botterill, former NHL player, been an exec for a few years and is ready to run a team, young and highly educated, won a couple of cups as an exec with the Pens. But either way I think the time has come to go in a different direction, have a new voice both upstairs and behind the bench.

Pittsburgh and Boston both fired their GM's a few years after winning the Stanley Cup.

I don't trust Lombardi to dismantle this team because he has failed to do so, even in clear situations such as the ones discussed above. I don't know if anyone watches American Pickers, but Dean is like the 95 year old guy who knows it's time to part with his stuff before he dies, but just can't do it.

That and the Kings drafting has been horrendous this decade, I don't know if Dean realizes the league is back to being more speed and skill oriented.

I just think it's time to say thanks to Dean and Darryl but go in a different direction.

Jason Botterill sounds intreguing, Herb. I'm gonna go read about him.

Thanks for a thoughtful replay/feedback. Even tho I disagree, esp on the "horrendous drafting over the decade" and there's certainly more to his success than just his drafting, but you offer some nice alternatives and a clear point.

Also mega brownie points for the American Pickers reference, have seen every episode!! Love me some Mike and Frank!!

 

[ibleedkings]

I was upsest when DS signed on for 3 more seasons. Both him and Dean will never change. Fast pace style of how the NHL is now, is obviously now how they see it. When you continue to see them keep Greene in the lineup its mind boggling!

 

[Butch 19]

But who's available that's competent enough to turn this team into a contender right away, like some want, or competent enough to shift a whole new philosophy into the org -- from the top/down -- minors, drafting, coaches, big club as the rebuild begins?

And why not DL be that guy? He's done damned fine building this team in the past, when he kept his picks with Futa leading the scouting calvary (yes, I know what Dave Taylor and Co did).

without Taylor, the Kings wouldn't have Kopitar and Quick, so no Cups either.

How long does Dean get a pass? Another year or 2 of terrible drafts, and maybe he'll rival Taylor in fans' scorn.

 

[TonySCV]

No Quick for 4 months and an anemic offense = gonna be a long first half of the season. I hope the Kings are still above water when the all-star break rolls around. :\

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Hi flyers fan here. Hang on guys look at the start Shorks had last year and at the stark difference when they finished the season.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

At least I can pat myself on the back for thinking Konecny is gonna be a gem

 

[KingTrouty]

without Taylor, the Kings wouldn't have Kopitar and Quick, so no Cups either.

How long does Dean get a pass? Another year or 2 of terrible drafts, and maybe he'll rival Taylor in fans' scorn.

I'm not sure, Butch. To be frank, of my three sports teams across three leagues, this franchise is the most successful. So I'm inclined to give him more time purely due to what innept upper mgmt can do to a franchise, and Dean is a proven, elite GM. And I'd hate to lose that off of knee jerk, he isn't doing well lately, reactions.

On the other hand, if it's clear the franchise is sinking, and there's no clear answer for the future within his regime and Sutter's scheme, all of your guys' questions are bonafide and just.

I, personally, as a sports fanatic (who understands the rarity of GM's of DL's ilk), want to see us hold on to him for three more seasons, to see if he can start the rebuild that Futa can finish. With a full implementation of draft picks and a strong desire to gain back what we once had.

I think this braintrust is elite enough to regain that magic, get back to that upper echelon of teams in the NHL. But that it will also take a little time.

The greatest of the greats have down time (the tenured Greats). They need it to regroup. The NHL is tricky in that we can't escape albatross contracts like some of the other leagues can, so Dean has, admittedly, handcuffed the franchise on some knee jerk, heart-instead-of-head contracts.

But he has also brought us two cups, with solids draft picks, timely trades, and selecting a coach who could tap into the team and rally them to success. For me, this buys the benefit of the doubt (again, for me).

I want three more years with him, and in these three years, I want to see an upward trajectory in team philosophy that mimics those of other franchises that remain somewhat competitive (not barn-burners, mind you), while also rebuilding, like the other elite GMs across sports have done.

 

[LAKings88]

Been saying this team isn't a playoff team even before the injuries. Thought they would compete but that San Jose, Anaheim, and Edmonton will take the Pacific spots.

Pearson and Gabby being out means players are not slotted correctly. Even when they come back, LA has to have everyone pulling the right way. Their style isn't going to change.

I wanted to see:

Kempe Kopi Gabby
Pearson Carter Toff
Purcell Dowd Brown
Clifford Andreoff Lewis
Shore

Trade King and Nolan

Doughty Muzzin
Amart LaDue
Gravel Forbort
Mcnabb

Young but so what, unless LA is worried about expansion

 

[KingTrouty]

without Taylor, the Kings wouldn't have Kopitar and Quick, so no Cups either.

How long does Dean get a pass? Another year or 2 of terrible drafts, and maybe he'll rival Taylor in fans' scorn.

Also, respectfully, can we give Futa and Co a couple drafts where they actually have their picks before declaring hypotheticals? Just saying, Butch.

Futa has had **** all to work with lately as Dean has taken shot after shot for multiple rings.

 

[fsanford]

Hi flyers fan here. Hang on guys look at the start Shorks had last year and at the stark difference when they finished the season.

Actually the Kings started out losing I think first 3 last year too.

Last year everyone for the most part was healthy to start the year. This year not so much.

Will see where things are end of November. that will give us a good barometer where the year will go.

Glad got to see Ghost live, kid has an amazing quick shot. One last night I could swore the puck had not got to him yet, and yet it wizzing by the Kings goal.

 

[KingsFan7824]

No Quick for 4 months and an anemic offense = gonna be a long first half of the season. I hope the Kings are still above water when the all-star break rolls around. :\

I think the issue is more about the zone coverage in the middle of the ice, and letting up goals in bunches. Quick helps mask a few mistakes, but he hasn't been immune to it.

Hi flyers fan here. Hang on guys look at the start Shorks had last year and at the stark difference when they finished the season.

For as many questions as there were about Thornton and Marleau heading into last season, it's nothing compared to Brown. Gaborik, another year older, another injury, and he wasn't productive when healthy last year.

Because of the way the contracts are, the Kings have a fairly inefficient roster. They're getting less for more, whereas the Sharks are getting more for less. Blame Lombardi's loyalty, blame the players cashing in after winning, blame whatever the case may be, but a long list of variables have contributed to where the Kings have found themselves over the last 171 games.

Greene's contract is a problem, as are contracts of other role players, but the Kings are also paying more for their top guys too. The $3m more the Kings are spending on Kopitar than the Sharks are on Thornton, and the extra $3m for Quick as opposed to Jones, can be a $6m player, or two $3m guys, or whatever. Ward makes half of what Brown does, but is a more effective player today. Brown might not even be worth a $3m cap hit at this point.

 

[KingTrouty]

I think the issue is more about the zone coverage in the middle of the ice, and letting up goals in bunches. Quick helps mask a few mistakes, but he hasn't been immune to it.



For as many questions as there were about Thornton and Marleau heading into last season, it's nothing compared to Brown. Gaborik, another year older, another injury, and he wasn't productive when healthy last year.

Because of the way the contracts are, the Kings have a fairly inefficient roster. They're getting less for more, whereas the Sharks are getting more for less. Blame Lombardi's loyalty, blame the players cashing in after winning, blame whatever the case may be, but a long list of variables have contributed to where the Kings have found themselves over the last 171 games.

Greene's contract is a problem, as are contracts of other role players, but the Kings are also paying more for their top guys too. The $3m more the Kings are spending on Kopitar than the Sharks are on Thornton, and the extra $3m for Quick as opposed to Jones, can be a $6m player, or two $3m guys, or whatever. Ward makes half of what Brown does, but is a more effective player today. Brown might not even be worth a $3m cap hit at this point.

Great post, brudda. We in a jam, for sure. Hope DL can figure it out. It's admittedly starting to look somewhat bleak, but a new GM doesn't erase those contracts. And if DL learned from his mistakes (how the hell could he not have, hell he's even admitted he has), there's no better alternative to see someone right this ship

 

[Trolfoli]

Oh man... "Fire Sutter & Lombardi" has already happened after the 2nd game?

Won't this fire Sutter stuff ever end?

 

[Herby]

What has he shown that makes you think he has learned his lesson?

Matt Greene is still on the team, that shows Dean just can't let go of certain people. Guarantee if Greene weren't on the Kings he would be on the street with Stoll and Richards, two other guys DL was reluctant to give up on and have since proven they aren't NHL players.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

This is looking like how it looked before Terry Murray got fired.

That's why I still have faith. DL literally cannot ignore it, because he doesn't have his 'recent cup' get out of jail free pass. Either we see him make changes, or he becomes the change. Color me concerned, but not worried.

 

[KingTrouty]

What has he shown that makes you think he has learned his lesson?

Matt Greene is still on the team, that shows Dean just can't let go of certain people. Guarantee if Greene weren't on the Kings he would be on the street with Stoll and Richards, two other guys DL was reluctant to give up on and have since proven they aren't NHL players.

Herby, you keep citing past mistakes from DL (I admit, in hindsite 20/20, mistakes) but you give him no chance at rebuilding this team??

It's pure "he must go, no other alternatives" for you? You bleed Kings, I know. But, are you not somewhat intrigued at what he may be able to do?

No incoming GM is getting rid of these horrid contracts. And Dean has stated several times he's learned from his old ways, and those old ways were his only week points, his over dedication to the "core" heart of the team.

What if he adjusts. What if my hypothetical is right, since we're doing the hypothetical game. Wouldn't you rather go into the future with a learned, humbled, proven winner as GM?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Hey, some of us warned you guys it was going to be a long and trying season. My mantra coming in this year was to hope for the best, but expect the worst.

I just didn't expect them to look this bad so early on. The Kings never fail to disappoint in that sense.