Post-Game Talk: GAME 19 - Extra, Extra, Read all about it! Blues 3 Bruins 2 (OT)

[4ORRBRUIN]

You clearly don't watch the NHL. There are absolutely more than 5 F better than #88.

Right now there are 5 Wingers I take over #88 in terms of impact. Kucherov is the most dominant wing in the NHL by quite a bit. Panarin, Ranheim, M. Tkachuk and Rantanen are as impactful if not more. Then go to C and McDavid, Mackinnon, Drai and Matthews are better. more impactful.

McAvoy same thing as Makar, Fox, Heiskanen, Josi, Forsling, Morrissey and Hedman are better than McAvoy. Take the fan in glasses off.

So McAvoy is 8? Still trying to figure out if he sucks or not. But Forsling? lololol

I would take Kucherov over ANY player in the NHL, yes ANY.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

I don't know, it feels like you are just looking at the last 18 games.

In the previous 2 years, Pasta is 2nd in the NHL in goals.
In the previous 5 years, Pasta is 3rd in goals in and 6th in points.

And it's not like Pasta is the 2nd best player on his team like Draisaitl, Rantanen and Tkachuk. He doesn't even really have a spectacular offensive running mate like Crosby/Malkin or Matthews/Marner. He has to carry this team offensively. In the last 2 years, Pasta has 86 more points than the 2nd leading scorer on our team.

I will agree that he currently looks like a shell of his former self. He looks tired, and like he's not having fun. Right now he's not a top10 forward, but I'd like to think that this is a funk. That inside he still has top5 skill, creativity and passion. He's only 28 for crying out loud.

I am responding to PBF declarative statement of him being a top 5F. This shouldn't be controversial saying #88 has legitimate competition as one of the top 10F in the world never mind top 5.

Clearly outside of Boston fans, the majority of fans will take the top 5 centers in McDavid, Drai, McKinnon, Barkov and Matthews. I personally take Point also and then Kucherov for certain over #88. So it isn't disrespectful of #88 saying a few more players like Reinhart, Nylander, Hughes, Aho or Forsberg bring talents to the table to rival #88.

 

[4ORRBRUIN]

The fact that their are a lot of great elite forwards in the NHL today doesn't make Pasta any less of an elite forward.

I'm onboard with your take on McAvoy. I think his game has regressed bit by bit since Cassidy left. I'd like to see what an entirely new coaching staff could do with him.

Are you using plus minus? points? Icetime? to gauge how much McAvoy's game has diminished?

Because when Im watching he's usually the best defenseman on the ice. All those guys that Killer says is better than Mac is who are their partners?

Now look at the cast of characters McAvoy has been paired with over the last few years

He would be the only untouchable player in a complete overhaul to me. He's that good in a position that very difficult to be good all the time.

 

[4ORRBRUIN]

I am responding to PBF declarative statement of him being a top 5F. This shouldn't be controversial saying #88 has legitimate competition as one of the top 10F in the world never mind top 5.

Clearly outside of Boston fans, the majority of fans will take the top 5 centers in McDavid, Drai, McKinnon, Barkov and Matthews. I personally take Point also and then Kucherov for certain over #88. So it isn't disrespectful of #88 saying a few more players like Reinhart, Nylander, Hughes, Aho or Forsberg bring talents to the table to rival #88.

Plus not many guys on your list is a liability on just about every shift. Sure they make mistakes and turnovers being creative but Pasta turns over the puck 1000 times a game for no apparent reason.

He's a great player in games that he cares to be involved in but seems to be there haven't been many of those for a long time now.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

While the team as a whole is poorly constructed by Sweeney and poorly coached by Montgomery apparently we the fans have taken to tearing down the few elite players we do have. A sight to behold.

The Bruins have the smallest number of high end talent players in the NHL perhaps aside from Utah/Anaheim type teams and it naturally impacts their performance.

Fox and Kucherov would be performing just as poorly with this roster.

Generational players like Makar and McDavid would have their points but no one is comparing McAvoy and Pastrnak to them.

We disagree.

Since Pasta's rookie year, the Bruins have the highest winning percentage of any team in the NHL. So he's played on the best regular season team.

Pasta has averaged 1.07 points per game over that stretch. That's 13th over that time frame. 10th in total points scored. Kucherov with 1.28 points per game. 2nd over that time frame. 2nd in total points also. Kucherov also has two scoring titles.

In the playoffs, Pasta at 0.97 points per game. 18th overall. Kucherov, 1.14 per game, 5th overall. He also led the playoffs in scoring twice.

Pasta also turns the puck over more than Kucherov. Pretty sure Pasta doesn't have any edge in terms of defensive play.

So no, Pasta not on the same level as Kucherov.

Pasta top 5 forwards?

McDavid, Draisaitl, McKinnon, Panarin, Matthews, Crosby, Kaprizov, Barkov, etc.

 

[BruinDust]

Are you using plus minus? points? Icetime? to gauge how much McAvoy's game has diminished?

Because when Im watching he's usually the best defenseman on the ice. All those guys that Killer says is better than Mac is who are their partners?

Now look at the cast of characters McAvoy has been paired with over the last few years

He would be the only untouchable player in a complete overhaul to me. He's that good in a position that very difficult to be good all the time.

None of that. What I see is a player who plays much more risky and aggressive and it doesn't suit him. He's a better D-man when he keeps it simple and lets the game come to him.

 

[Sigh]

None of that. What I see is a player who plays much more risky and aggressive and it doesn't suit him. He's a better D-man when he keeps it simple and lets the game come to him.

I agree 100% with this, and it's another strike on coaching, IMHO.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

They have three paths in front of them.....

1) Full rebuild

2) Admit this season is a write off, sell off as many UFAs/players with 1 year left as you can, and try to reinvent this team (specifically the Forward group) over the next couple years.

3) Try to salvage this season with band-aid type solutions.

#1 is not happening. How do you tear a team down when you have almost 300 million committed to these 6 players over the next 6 years. (Pasta/Elias/McAvoy/Hampus/Zadorov/Swayman)? Their combined cap hit per year is a staggering $48.250 million per year. 3 of those players (Elias, Hampus, Zadorov) are basically untradeable right now. They made their bed and there is no real viable way out of this.

The numbers say #3 is a complete waste of time, money and assets. This is a bottom tier team that should be picking Top 5 in the draft in June. One trade won't fix it. Neither will a coaching change. It would however likely give them enough of a bump defensively to fall back into the 6-14 range of the draft which is counter-productive. They still won't make the playoffs. Even if they did, I think there is clear separation between the Top 7 teams in the East and the rest. 1st round fodder for a true contender.

The path to me is clear. It's No. 2.

Question is, do Sweeney and Neely have guts to admit their mistakes? Should they even get a chance to re-tool this team? It's been there show here now for 10 years.

Instead like has been suggested, we are likely looking at more of the same vision with Mike Sullivan coming in this off-season. And people think the Bruins are soft now? Like a time warp back to 20 years ago with Sullivan at the helm, a couple nitwits in the front office (Sinden/MOC = Sweeney/Neely) and a perverse fascination to build a roster full of mid-tier hockey players and no real interest in acquiring true game-breaking talents.

Fans are going crazy over a bad 20 games to start the season.

What will happen if it really does take a couple years to rebuild?

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

The fact that their are a lot of great elite forwards in the NHL today doesn't make Pasta any less of an elite forward.

I'm onboard with your take on McAvoy. I think his game has regressed bit by bit since Cassidy left. I'd like to see what an entirely new coaching staff could do with him.

I think his game fell apart after Bergeron retired.

When Charlie screwed up defensively, most of the time he had Bergy out there to cover.

Over 6 seasons McAvoy was +140. two seasons without Bergeron, +6.

Marchand was a +290 with Bergeron in the lineup, past two seasons he's even. Though age is factor there.

 

[BruinDust]

Fans are going crazy over a bad 20 games to start the season.

What will happen if it really does take a couple years to rebuild?

But they aren't just bad, they are really bad. Historically bad. The numbers speak for themselves. Once you get to October 16th onward they've played like a team that should be picking 1st overall not just one draft but two consecutive.

It takes what it takes.

 

[BruinDust]

I think his game fell apart after Bergeron retired.

When Charlie screwed up defensively, most of the time he had Bergy out there to cover.

Over 6 seasons McAvoy was +140. two seasons without Bergeron, +6.

Marchand was a +290 with Bergeron in the lineup, past two seasons he's even. Though age is factor there.

Well it is a center's job down low to help support the D-man, especially how the Bruins defended (at least they used to). Every D would benefit from having a center like Bergeron, so his numbers with or without Bergeron aren't unique to him.

The loss of Bergeron has nothing to do with him stepping up at risky times, turning the puck over with riskier plays. Making bad reads and trying to play outside his comfort zone.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

But they aren't just bad, they are really bad. Historically bad. The numbers speak for themselves. Once you get to October 16th onward they've played like a team that should be picking 1st overall not just one draft but two consecutive.

It takes what it takes.

They are 8-8-2. With 63 games to play.

I wouldn't call it historically bad just yet. Though there is reason to believe it could go that way.

Well it is a center's job down low to help support the D-man, especially how the Bruins defended (at least they used to). Every D would benefit from having a center like Bergeron, so his numbers with or without Bergeron aren't unique to him.

The loss of Bergeron has nothing to do with him stepping up at risky times, turning the puck over with riskier plays. Making bad reads and trying to play outside his comfort zone.

I would argue those traits were always part of his game. Magnified now with current roster.

 

[BruinDust]

I would argue those traits were always part of his game. Magnified now with current roster.

I agree to a certain degree. But blaming on his teammates/D-partners over the past few years is an excuse. Those are his decisions to step-up at the wrong time in the wrong situations.

When he's on his game he can be a fantastic defensive player. If there is one teammate he probably misses the most it's Chara, who likely demanded McAvoy play the game more conservatively.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

So McAvoy is 8? Still trying to figure out if he sucks or not. But Forsling? lololol

I would take Kucherov over ANY player in the NHL, yes ANY.

You can lol all you want, but he is absolutely in the same grouping of D-Men as McAvoy the last two years.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

I think his game fell apart after Bergeron retired.

When Charlie screwed up defensively, most of the time he had Bergy out there to cover.

Over 6 seasons McAvoy was +140. two seasons without Bergeron, +6.

Marchand was a +290 with Bergeron in the lineup, past two seasons he's even. Though age is factor there.

Center depth in general along with this inefficient Montgomery system perhaps.

Bergeron, Krejci, Coyle to whatever it is today. Along with McAvoy's own struggles.

 

[Sheppy]

I’ve turned off more games than I’ve sat through this year.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

You can lol all you want, but he is absolutely in the same grouping of D-Men as McAvoy the last two years.

A massive stretch. The Florida system by Maurice is very beneficial to the players, forwards, defense, and goaltenders. One of the better coaches no question.

Forsling 2 minutes less per game in that system, less offense. McAvoy more hits, blocks. Simply better. A lower tier for Forsling.

 

[Sheppy]

So McAvoy is 8? Still trying to figure out if he sucks or not. But Forsling? lololol

I would take Kucherov over ANY player in the NHL, yes ANY.

Forsling is a damn good d-man, he is incredibly steady in his own end and is no slouch offensively. His player vs Contract is light years beyond McAvoys.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

A massive stretch. The Florida system by Maurice is very beneficial to the players, forwards, defense, and goaltenders. One of the better coaches no question.

Forsling 2 minutes less per game in that system, less offense. McAvoy more hits, blocks. Simply better. A lower tier for Forsling.

Did you read what I said? Last TWO YEARS no doubt he is at McAvoy level, which has dipped.

I turn 70 soon and have been retired last 3 years and watch a ton of NHL hockey. You are massively under rating Forsling.

 

[22Brad Park]

Forsling is a damn good d-man, he is incredibly steady in his own end and is no slouch offensively. His player vs Contract is light years beyond McAvoys.

I guess he is a good player and I agree here with you all the way.He mentioned taking Kucherov over any player in NHL.I thought Kucherov should have had Hart Trophy last season so I am not saying he is wrong ,but I am taking McDavid all day everyday.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Forsling is a damn good d-man, he is incredibly steady in his own end and is no slouch offensively. His player vs Contract is light years beyond McAvoys.

Forsling is $5.75 per.

 

[NDiesel]

I have been an avid watcher online since 2010. Rarely missed games, this product is very uninspiring with no real leadership from vets or management. The days of the culture and taking a pay cut for the team are over. Sway killed that, he cared more about the goalie union. Drafting and trades have been average at best and in this salary cap era its hard to compete. This is a .500 team skillwise and that is it. (PS it sucks)

I missed the games this past week as I was in Mexico. Usually I'd try and catch them still, but I felt zero reason to go out of my way on vacation and watch the current product. It's sad, I could live with a hard working team devoid of talent but they are neither hard working nor talented right now...

 

[HumBucker]

I really don't think conditioning is an issue. Players are out of shape after 20 games of an NHL regular season schedule, with practices and regular work-outs between games? Seems incredibly unlikely, especially for guys in their 20s.

 

[Sheppy]

Forsling is $5.75 per.

I know, and it’s one of the best cap hits in the NHL.

 

[bruinmann77]

Think might see something happening around thanksgiving