GDT: Game 18: Red Wings at sharks 10:30 pm et 11/18/24

[FMichael]

This is getting painful to watch! Every night getting outshot 2:1. They underestimated the value of Perron, Ghost and Walman.

I'm honestly at the point where I don't care...With Fester around you'll know what to expect.

 

[FMichael]

+parking+refreshments+merchandise

I hope he took advantage of 'Newsie Night' and was one of the first 7,500 fans to have entered the LCA for the free Coach Lalonde mask give away...

 

[HisNoodliness]

I'd argue that you're underselling MBN, Danielson and Kasper a bit.

I take your point on non-first round players, but it seems like there's a legit chance Buch hits, and if he does, he's going to hit big and make all of the other non-first round misses irrelevant.

I hope that I am underrating MBN, Danielson and Kasper. I think if all of our good prospects maximize their potential, we'll be fine. ASP could become a star D, MBN could become a top line winger, Cossa could become a starting goaltender and Kasper/Danielson could become 2/3 pieces of a Selke caliber second line. Outside of them, we have a reasonable chance with the two Johanssons, Berggren, Wallinder, Augustine, Bunch and Mazur becoming worthwhile NHLers. If every one of these pieces hits, are we as good as Florida last year? Maybe. But that's if everything works out. We'll be lucky if half of that happens and then we're barely a playoff team.

i think that your extremely extremely extremely underestimating steve yzermans capabilities as an nhl general manager . the guy is an absolute sharpie

I honestly think he's among the best in the league. I think that we have a bad pro scouting staff, an average amateur scouting staff and a bad coach. A GM that usually wins his trades and gets good value on resigning players can't overcome an entire management team of mediocrity. Ultimately, it's Yzerman's job to recognize the numerous issues with our team and address them. That's what a sharpie does.

 

[deca guard]

I hope that I am underrating MBN, Danielson and Kasper. I think if all of our good prospects maximize their potential, we'll be fine. ASP could become a star D, MBN could become a top line winger, Cossa could become a starting goaltender and Kasper/Danielson could become 2/3 pieces of a Selke caliber second line. Outside of them, we have a reasonable chance with the two Johanssons, Berggren, Wallinder, Augustine, Bunch and Mazur becoming worthwhile NHLers. If every one of these pieces hits, are we as good as Florida last year? Maybe. But that's if everything works out. We'll be lucky if half of that happens and then we're barely a playoff team.



I honestly think he's among the best in the league. I think that we have a bad pro scouting staff, an average amateur scouting staff and a bad coach. A GM that usually wins his trades and gets good value on resigning players can't overcome an entire management team of mediocrity. Ultimately, it's Yzerman's job to recognize the numerous issues with our team and address them. That's what a sharpie does.

imo you are seriously underestimating how important early , top 15 , 1st round draft pix are . they make EVERYTHING else pale in comparison , they are how you address the vast majority of issues . without those pix , and yzermans nailing every single one of them (he owns the draft floor) , you will NEVER build a championship organization . he knows this and all his activity since taking the helm has been focused on making the most out of the 1st rounders , including trading away good players while signing iffy players as the machinings it takes to enhance the early 1st round pix . hes doing an absolute expert job at it ! and like i said he did not want the team to eek into playoffs the past few seasons by adding better short term players than those hes added because it would have done damage to those early first rounders that are CRUCIAL . yzerman is like having sir francis drake at the helm of your ship

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

1 of 6 points on this road trip.

Let in 4 or more goals all game.

Outshot every game.

Holy f*** are we bad.

 

[Holden Caufield]

Another well deserved Loss.
This team sucks
Even worse, they play Charmin soft.
Lalonde is clueless.

 

[Realgud]

Another well deserved Loss.
This team sucks
Even worse, they play Charmin soft.
Lalonde is clueless.

Ben Chiarmin* soft

 

[FMichael]

Another well deserved Loss.
This team sucks
Even worse, they play Charmin soft.
Lalonde is clueless.

I could tolerate losing if it meant they were ‘entertaining’ ie: physical and nasty.

They just look indifferent and bad all around.

Ben Chiarmin* soft

Chiarot while never ‘great’ - was certainly more capable when he 1st arrived (to me he’s at his best as a rover - can move the puck up ice from our end - jump in the play - generate some offense - mind you at the expense of defense which is why he needs a stay at home partner).

These past few seasons he’s regressed (like everyone else); not as physical, doesn’t appear to generate as much from our end, etc.

This entire team needs a hard reset with an entirely new coaching staff.

 

[Murmansk16A]

Even worse, they play Charmin soft.

Call up John Whipple.

 

[Gniwder]

Call up John Whipple.

Bench Compher and call up Watson. Compher has one assist in the last 9 games, Watson's career average as a 4th liner is better than that.

 

[HisNoodliness]

imo you are seriously underestimating how important early , top 15 , 1st round draft pix are . they make EVERYTHING else pale in comparison , they are how you address the vast majority of issues . without those pix , and yzermans nailing every single one of them (he owns the draft floor) , you will NEVER build a championship organization . he knows this and all his activity since taking the helm has been focused on making the most out of the 1st rounders , including trading away good players while signing iffy players as the machinings it takes to enhance the early 1st round pix . hes doing an absolute expert job at it ! and like i said he did not want the team to eek into playoffs the past few seasons by adding better short term players than those hes added because it would have done damage to those early first rounders that are CRUCIAL . yzerman is like having sir francis drake at the helm of your ship

So just to be clear, what you're saying is that Yzerman went into the Free Agent market, said to himself "I could add a good player, but they might win us games. Let's add Ben Chiarot instead because he'll make us lose. Oooh, that Justin Holl is going to secure me a solid draft spot. I can't wait to trade for this Jeff Petry guy so that he can lose us games. Gotta make sure I get 9th overall instead of 16th overall." I don't think that's what he is doing. That would be insane if so. If that's genuinely what you think, and you're happy about it, then we're not going to agree on team building.

There's a reasonable middle ground: "Vincent Trochek is better than Andrew Copp, but I don't want to pay Trochek the contract that he'll get. I'll take Copp as a discount 3C instead. We shouldn't be making our push with big signings yet." I'm cool with that. But the problem then becomes that if that's what we were doing when we brought in Chiarot, Holl, Petry and Gus, then we clearly are terrible at evaluating defenseman.

I agree that it doesn't make sense to make a judgement on this team until it all comes together in 2-3 years. I'm just saying that when I look at the way our roster and prospects are trending, my projection is becoming fairly pessimistic. A lot of what has diminished my optimism is that I always expected Yzerman to find some surplus value somewhere.

We all believe that Yzerman is a good GM because he built a near dynasty in Tampa. So let's look at how he built the Lightning and see if we're on track to follow that model. He started with Stamkos and Hedman. He found core pieces outside of the first round with Kucherov, and Point, found under-the-radar pieces like Gourde, Marchessault, Johnson, Palat, Killorn, etc. He brought in very solid free agents like Stralman. Besides Victor Hedman, the Lightning didn't have a single defenseman that they drafted on their roster when Yzerman left. He won nearly every trade he made, Drouin for Sergachev for example, and always got good value on contracts. He actually did very poorly in the first round in Tampa with Vasilevskiy being the only core piece that Yzerman himself drafted. He managed to make up for it with savvy additions, and late round steals.

Let's compare that to Detroit. He started with Larkin. His first round picks have been better; Raymond, Seider and Ed are all trending as best case scenarios. The rest are TBD, but trending well enough. He's been able to keep our contracts reasonable with his stern, stingy negotiations. He's mostly won his trades here, but not quite like in Tampa. We're significantly behind in every other way. We haven't found even NHL quality players outside of the first. I'm happy with the guys we bring in that meet expectations (Kane, Maatta) because at least they're not failing miserably (Petry, Holl, etc).

I don't care about making the playoffs this year. I care that we somehow have the worst bottom 4 D in the NHL. We don't have them because of Ken Holland. We have them because of Yzerman and our pro scouts.

 

[Frk It]

So just to be clear, what you're saying is that Yzerman went into the Free Agent market, said to himself "I could add a good player, but they might win us games. Let's add Ben Chiarot instead because he'll make us lose. Oooh, that Justin Holl is going to secure me a solid draft spot. I can't wait to trade for this Jeff Petry guy so that he can lose us games. Gotta make sure I get 9th overall instead of 16th overall." I don't think that's what he is doing. That would be insane if so. If that's genuinely what you think, and you're happy about it, then we're not going to agree on team building.

There's a reasonable middle ground: "Vincent Trochek is better than Andrew Copp, but I don't want to pay Trochek the contract that he'll get. I'll take Copp as a discount 3C instead. We shouldn't be making our push with big signings yet." I'm cool with that. But the problem then becomes that if that's what we were doing when we brought in Chiarot, Holl, Petry and Gus, then we clearly are terrible at evaluating defenseman.

I agree that it doesn't make sense to make a judgement on this team until it all comes together in 2-3 years. I'm just saying that when I look at the way our roster and prospects are trending, my projection is becoming fairly pessimistic. A lot of what has diminished my optimism is that I always expected Yzerman to find some surplus value somewhere.

We all believe that Yzerman is a good GM because he built a near dynasty in Tampa. So let's look at how he built the Lightning and see if we're on track to follow that model. He started with Stamkos and Hedman. He found core pieces outside of the first round with Kucherov, and Point, found under-the-radar pieces like Gourde, Marchessault, Johnson, Palat, Killorn, etc. He brought in very solid free agents like Stralman. Besides Victor Hedman, the Lightning didn't have a single defenseman that they drafted on their roster when Yzerman left. He won nearly every trade he made, Drouin for Sergachev for example, and always got good value on contracts. He actually did very poorly in the first round in Tampa with Vasilevskiy being the only core piece that Yzerman himself drafted. He managed to make up for it with savvy additions, and late round steals.

Let's compare that to Detroit. He started with Larkin. His first round picks have been better; Raymond, Seider and Ed are all trending as best case scenarios. The rest are TBD, but trending well enough. He's been able to keep our contracts reasonable with his stern, stingy negotiations. He's mostly won his trades here, but not quite like in Tampa. We're significantly behind in every other way. We haven't found even NHL quality players outside of the first. I'm happy with the guys we bring in that meet expectations (Kane, Maatta) because at least they're not failing miserably (Petry, Holl, etc).

I don't care about making the playoffs this year. I care that we somehow have the worst bottom 4 D in the NHL. We don't have them because of Ken Holland. We have them because of Yzerman and our pro scouts.

Between Petry, Tarasenko, and Kane... I am not sure our pro scouts know what year it is.