GDT: Game 16 - Senators (7-6-2) @ Devils (9-3-3) - 1pm (Short Notice Edition)

[The Devil In I]

This is the reason that the lowest scoring teams in the league 20 years ago scored what the highest scoring teams in the league score now. And why the goalies have 2 GAA, and back then 3.50 GAA, and an 870 save percentage was acceptable. I see nothing else to tell me any different. The goalies today are no better than they were then, and that's why scoring is so much lower. Same size net, bigger goalies. Of course you have to have athleticism no matter what to be a goalie, but whoever says ''Find a big oaf, and dress him in loads of equipment. There's your goalie'' it's becoming close to a reality.

Look at Patrick Roy's numbers in the 80s, and early 90s when he was wearing average equipment, and then look at his number in the early 2000s when he posted 920-925 save percentages, while posting 905-910 and even below 900 earlier in his career. Sean Burke is another guy who posted absurd numbers later in his career after increasing his equipment as well as a few others who played in both eras.

Simply not true. The goalies may not be much more talented than goalies of the 80's...but they are considerably better trained. The goalie technique used today is simply more efficient at stopping pucks than the old school stand-up style. Goalie schools beat positioning into these goalies heads. Combine a goalie who is taught to play the angles to perfection, to take up as much space as they can, and then make them physically bigger? That's how you get so many goalies posting greater than .92 sv%. Sure, if they were physically smaller they'd stop less pucks, but they'd still post better numbers than goalies of the 80's.

 

[Bleedred]

Tallinder sucks. Good old Conerik Tallinder. The Rangers have king Henrik, we have CONE Henrik.

I'd trade him away for a pick, because the most value he might have is clearing his $3.375 million off our cap payroll for next year. Use that money to give Clarkson a raise. Replace Tallinder (And Zid who will walk) with Gelinas for $900k grand a year. Total savings of about $2.5 million.

 

[Emperoreddy]

in the last 4 games, the goalies were ward, bryz, nabakov, and andre the giant. only bishop is really a big guy. the others are pretty average sized goalies.

i don't think it's the goalies they're facing. the offense has gone to the crapper.

We scored 4 on Bryz, 2 on Wardo and he was on his game that day. 1 on Nabakov who was also on his game, and 1 today, but we should of had more.

It is a lack of finish that has really killed us in the last three loses. The chances have been there. Also the last two games we have like one period worth of good pressure then vanish. How do you go from 14 shots in one period, then 4 in the 2nd?!?!

Henrique has been missing open nets like its going out of style, and I think it has zapped his confidence. Elias couldn't buy a goal today and he had more then a few chances. Zajac had some really good chances too I think.

Today's problem was the PP not getting it done, not finishing, and just not sustaining and kind of energy level and pressure after one period. They woke up a bit in the third, but no much.

We scored one and sat on it for WAY to long. They bury that 2nd one when the should of and had the chances to we win this in regulation. Loses like this are so annoying.

Also a lot of it didn't have to do with his size, we had him beat. Patty's chance in the 3rd being the best example. Full empty net, only a defender to beat. HAVE to bury that when you need that 2nd goal.

 

[Bleedred]

Simply not true. The goalies may not be much more talented than goalies of the 80's...but they are considerably better trained. The goalie technique used today is simply more efficient at stopping pucks than the old school stand-up style. Goalie schools beat positioning into these goalies heads. Combine a goalie who is taught to play the angles to perfection, to take up as much space as they can, and then make them physically bigger? That's how you get so many goalies posting greater than .92 sv%. Sure, if they were physically smaller they'd stop less pucks, but they'd still post better numbers than goalies of the 80's.

In a way you almost said the same thing as me. Teach them to take up as much space as they can.

Look up Patrick Roy's numbers when he wore average size equipment, and look them up later in his career with bigger equipment. There's a direct correlation in a save percentage that went up by 2 percent. The nets have stayed the same size, the goalies in there have gotten bigger.

How about good old Sean Burke? Posted like an 870-880 save percentage with us in the 88 playoffs. At that time that was REALLY good. Posted the best save percentages of his career in Phoenix. If I remember correctly Benoit ALLAIRE was the goalie coach there at that time.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Reading into a few of the post game quotes, it seems like the biggest drag on this game was overall fatigue.

Friday was a big, emotional win and it was a quick jump to the next day's game.
They came out flying in the 1st and took their foot off the gas and got embarrassed by the Isles.

It was a quick turn around to today's game and from the highlights that I saw, it looks like the play in their own end (strictly from a defensive stand point) is light years better than it was.

The price tag was sloppy break outs and an inability to get past a team that was holding both blue lines pretty well. So at least there's an awareness as to what the areas of concern are - they couldn't hold it together in other areas of the ice.

Hopefully they can use these next few days to shake off the fatigue and get ready to play against a Caps team that's starting to come back to life.

Big letdown loss, but blown leads and letting other teams back into games is actually kind of common place throughout the NHL right now. It's the downside of a compressed schedule.

The key is the bounce back. Good coaches, smart vets, a lot of players on the roster fighting to make a difference. I think they'll make good of this weekend.

Oh definitely fatigue played a factor. Some were saying Kovy looked disinterested, I disagree. He looked gassed. I agree with you that on a technical stand point the play wasn't terrible. It was definitely more the energy and effort that was the difference today. We let this game happen not so much because of bad D, but because of not sustaining pressure and challenging Bishop after the 1st. Also not finishing when we did have the chances. You can't really go nuts about the goal given up because you are playing with fire in a 1-0 game where you aren't putting pressure on.

Carter going out hurt because it got the lines all scrambled. Was never going to be a game we win 1-0, but we should of won it 2-1. Fault really falls on the forwards for not getting their job done in the offensive zone.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Does anyone have video of the scrum/Elias getting speared?

 

[The Devil In I]

In a way you almost said the same thing as me. Teach them to take up as much space as they can.

Look up Patrick Roy's numbers when he wore average size equipment, and look them up later in his career with bigger equipment. There's a direct correlation in a save percentage that went up by 2 percent. The nets have stayed the same size, the goalies in there have gotten bigger.

How about good old Sean Burke? Posted like an 870-880 save percentage with us in the 88 playoffs. At that time that was REALLY good. Posted the best save percentages of his career in Phoenix. If I remember correctly Benoit ALLAIRE was the goalie coach there at that time.

Well yea, but you seemed to be taking it a step farther and saying the ONLY difference is the size of the goalies. Goalies today are not only bigger, but they play a more technically sound style. Later in Roy's career he was also playing in the dead-puck era. When a quality see's a lower amount of high quality chances, his save percentage will go up. Not saying it was exclusively that, pad size (and in Roy's case, his absurd jersey sizing) certainly helps. But there are other factors than just goalie percentage.

Goalies of the 80's were putting up sv %'s in the .85-.88 range in the 80's because of a few reasons. There was a higher amount of poor-skating defensemen in the league who could get coned easily for higher scoring chances. So scoring chances occurred more frequently. Also, a lot of them played a god awful standup style. You very rarely see goalies today get beat by a guy skating down the wing taking a slapshot from above the circle. Goalies back then would get beat low to the outside. Just a bad goal to give up. Goalies today cut the angle off and don't let that by too often. And, yes, the goalie's were overall smaller (physical size and equipment size).

 

[rtr1105]

I think Tallinder did alright today, but still, Fayne is 100x better.

 

[manilaNJ]

Oh definitely fatigue played a factor. Some were saying Kovy looked disinterested, I disagree. He looked gassed. I agree with you that on a technical stand point the play wasn't terrible. It was definitely more the energy and effort that was the difference today. We let this game happen not so much because of bad D, but because of not sustaining pressure and challenging Bishop after the 1st. Also not finishing when we did have the chances. You can't really go nuts about the goal given up because you are playing with fire in a 1-0 game where you aren't putting pressure on.

Carter going out hurt because it got the lines all scrambled. Was never going to be a game we win 1-0, but we should of won it 2-1. Fault really falls on the forwards for not getting their job done in the offensive zone.

All true. The Devils weren't living up to their abilities today by any means.
A little mental kick in the pants will get them going again.

Regardless... bench as many as you can and trade all the rest. Waiver anybody who gets left behind. This team is totes lame.

 

[StvBroDan]

How does it feel to lose to an Ottawa team that has nobody?

How does it feel to be a nobody.

 

[ghoti]

3-2-4 with Tallinder in.
6-1-0 with Tallinder out.
9-1-2 with Fayne in.
0-2-2 with Fayne out.

Please keep scratching Fayne for Tallinder's feelings.

Thanks for saving me the trouble of looking this up. It's ridiculous.

 

[Bleedred]

Well yea, but you seemed to be taking it a step farther and saying the ONLY difference is the size of the goalies. Goalies today are not only bigger, but they play a more technically sound style. Later in Roy's career he was also playing in the dead-puck era. When a quality see's a lower amount of high quality chances, his save percentage will go up. Not saying it was exclusively that, pad size (and in Roy's case, his absurd jersey sizing) certainly helps. But there are other factors than just goalie percentage.

Goalies of the 80's were putting up sv %'s in the .85-.88 range in the 80's because of a few reasons. There was a higher amount of poor-skating defensemen in the league who could get coned easily for higher scoring chances. So scoring chances occurred more frequently. Also, a lot of them played a god awful standup style. You very rarely see goalies today get beat by a guy skating down the wing taking a slapshot from above the circle. Goalies back then would get beat low to the outside. Just a bad goal to give up. Goalies today cut the angle off and don't let that by too often. And, yes, the goalie's were overall smaller (physical size and equipment size).

Back in the day it was a common occurrence to see a goal go in from the point almost every game with no screen, no deflection, just clean. Nowadays you don't see that unless the goalie gives up a clunker. You don't think equipment plays a big part in it? Look at a bunch of goalies from the early-mid 90s, and compare to 5-10 years later. Hasek was one of the only goalies in the league constantly posting 920s in the 90s.

Look at footage from a game back then, and look now. You don't think there's a whole lot less net to shoot at?

 

[jkrdevil]

Well yea, but you seemed to be taking it a step farther and saying the ONLY difference is the size of the goalies. Goalies today are not only bigger, but they play a more technically sound style. Later in Roy's career he was also playing in the dead-puck era. When a quality see's a lower amount of high quality chances, his save percentage will go up. Not saying it was exclusively that, pad size (and in Roy's case, his absurd jersey sizing) certainly helps. But there are other factors than just goalie percentage.

Goalies of the 80's were putting up sv %'s in the .85-.88 range in the 80's because of a few reasons. There was a higher amount of poor-skating defensemen in the league who could get coned easily for higher scoring chances. So scoring chances occurred more frequently. Also, a lot of them played a god awful standup style. You very rarely see goalies today get beat by a guy skating down the wing taking a slapshot from above the circle. Goalies back then would get beat low to the outside. Just a bad goal to give up. Goalies today cut the angle off and don't let that by too often. And, yes, the goalie's were overall smaller (physical size and equipment size).

Well goalies then had to play stand-up because masks then were terrible or they were trained on the terrible masks. Taking a puck to the head of one flat to the face masks or even birdcage mask not the best in the world. Now you see guys head the puck intentionally. Also lighter equipment means bigger equipment and taller players can pay goal.

Changes in protective equipment is the #1 reason for the drop in scoring over the last 30 years. It is funny listening to media guys whine about safety and drop in scoring. I don't think you can have a safe game (equipment wise) and a high scoring game at the same time. There needs to be a little fear in the players.

Not to mention even from a safety standpoint too much equipment leads to reckless play. Like everything there is a balance.

 

[MauDevils]

Didn't Loik have a failed clearance that led to the goal? I read that here, I guess he's getting his honeymoon period now though.

That goal was on Salvador. Floating around and completely lost his man.

 

[Andre Palot]

NHLDevilsPR ‏@NHLDevilsPR
Salvador: "Tonight, maybe we left a point on the table, but we battled hard and found a way to get a point." #NJDevils

That doesnt please me coming from the captain.... Terrible attitude.

No Captain Sal. The team played like a bunch of wimps.

 

[CerebralGenesis]

If the team is already gassed then they are in trouble this season.

Afternoon game in the middle of the season against an injured team sounds better than tired less than halfway through a compact season.

 

[Mgd31]

Good to see that 16 games in, Salvador is Rolstoning us

 

[StvBroDan]

Well if he turns into Rolston pull the C and sit his arse. We had one season ****ed up by a Capt gone bad.

 

[Bleedred]

Just relax guys I don't think he's becoming Langs. With that said his quote was crap. Battled hard? He should have said ''We battled hard, but couldn't score on the goodyear blimp''

I still think Kovy could have been captain. Classiest guy on the team, loves the fans, and always sticks up for his teammates and gives them credit. I get that from his post game interview on the ice from Friday, and many others that he's given.

 

[Traitor Zach]

Good to see that 16 games in, Salvador is Rolstoning us

Ha. I thought the same thing when I saw that quote. Either Rolston or Langenbrunner.

I'm starting to wonder if Lou gave Salvador that 3 year deal (emphasis being on the 3rd year, expecting and knowing pretty darn full well that it will be somebody else's problem as GM and figuring out how to deal with Salvador at that point.

 

[aboriginal]

sal sucks.

 

[Getzo5]

Coors Light Hard fact of the game: (Big Ben is fitting lol) Bishop is so huge that his butt can`t fit under the bar when he bends over.

 

[VaxjoDevil]

3-2-4 with Tallinder in.
6-1-0 with Tallinder out.
9-1-2 with Fayne in.
0-2-2 with Fayne out.

Please keep scratching Fayne for Tallinder's feelings.

Completely meaningless stats.

We were winning a lot in the beginning with Tedenby on the team. When he was sent down we started losing. Yeah that really says a lot.

 

[Bleedred]

Before today though we gave up FIFTEEN goals with Fayne not in the lineup. FIVE goals in each of the three games.

Don't see why we're playing Hank the suckage tank over him.

 

[Uli Hiemer]

Just relax guys I don't think he's becoming Langs. With that said his quote was crap. Battled hard? He should have said ''We battled hard, but couldn't score on the goodyear blimp''

I still think Kovy could have been captain. Classiest guy on the team, loves the fans, and always sticks up for his teammates and gives them credit. I get that from his post game interview on the ice from Friday, and many others that he's given.

i think it's more about salvador's play. he has not looked good.