GDT: Game 15: Sharks vs. Wild 7:30pm NBCSCA

Juxtaposer

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It's hard to imagine a deal being out there for him anytime soon though. He hasn't been playing well and he's expensive with an extra year for where he probably should slot on a good team. And since the team is treating him like they treat Kunin where they pump his tires regardless, I don't see them making any move on Ferraro. But if they could swap Rutta for an expiring minor leaguer, that'd be great.
Yep, it's not outside the realm of possibility that Grier is trying to trade him and just can't. I've never really believed in the concept of "showcasing", though, so I think Warsofsky genuinely does love him and loves giving him huge minutes.
 

Hodge

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Yep, it's not outside the realm of possibility that Grier is trying to trade him and just can't. I've never really believed in the concept of "showcasing", though, so I think Warsofsky genuinely does love him and loves giving him huge minutes.
Who else is he supposed to play in those minutes? Henry Thrun?
 

Juxtaposer

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Who else is he supposed to play in those minutes? Henry Thrun?
I do get your point, we don't have a lot of options. But why doesn't Ferraro see literally any criticism from Warsofsky? He's not been afraid to call out Walman, Eklund, Zetterlund, Wennberg, Benning, or to healthy scratch Thrun when he wasn't playing well. Why is it that only Ferraro, Rutta, Kunin, and Goodrow are above reproach?
 

Star Platinum

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It's hard to imagine a deal being out there for him anytime soon though. He hasn't been playing well and he's expensive with an extra year for where he probably should slot on a good team. And since the team is treating him like they treat Kunin where they pump his tires regardless, I don't see them making any move on Ferraro. But if they could swap Rutta for an expiring minor leaguer, that'd be great.
Even a third round lottery ticket is better than getting a guy who isn't any good
 

Hodge

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I do get your point, we don't have a lot of options. But why doesn't Ferraro see literally any criticism from Warsofsky? He's not been afraid to call out Walman, Eklund, Zetterlund, Wennberg, Benning, or to healthy scratch Thrun when he wasn't playing well. Why is it that only Ferraro, Rutta, Kunin, and Goodrow are above reproach?
Because those players give their all every shift. They're not the most talented players in the league but criticizing them won't change that. Whereas Eklund should be working harder on the forecheck and there's a chance cutting his ice time and calling him out will wake him up.
 

Star Platinum

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Because those players give their all every shift. They're not the most talented players in the league but criticizing them won't change that. Whereas Eklund should be working harder on the forecheck and there's a chance cutting his ice time and calling him out will wake him up.
There are no orange slices for professionals. If you can't do the job, effort will not save you.

Of course, Warsofsky isn't the only one who can't criticize Goodrow...:sarcasm:
 

OverTheLine

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Because those players give their all every shift. They're not the most talented players in the league but criticizing them won't change that. Whereas Eklund should be working harder on the forecheck and there's a chance cutting his ice time and calling him out will wake him up.
Effort can be directed in different ways. If physical effort is the only thing that matters to Warsofsky, then he's a bad coach. Effort to continue to learn and improve at the game, even when you're a veteran, should be valued just as much. Especially in a cerebral position like defense. Ferraro's play as of late has been unacceptable, particularly because he's a veteran and a leader.
 
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Hodge

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Effort can be directed in different ways. If physical effort is the only thing that matters to Warsofsky, then he's a bad coach. Effort to continue to learn and improve at the game, even when you're a veteran, should be valued just as much. Especially in a cerebral position like defense. Ferraro's play as of late has been unacceptable, particularly because he's a veteran and a leader.
I thought he had turned a corner in that regard last season but it hasn't carried over. Still, he's just here to eat minutes for a few more seasons so someone like Thrun or Thompson or Mukhamadullin doesn't have to.
 
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Pinkfloyd

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Even a third round lottery ticket is better than getting a guy who isn't any good
Maybe but who would really want either Ferraro or Rutta now? At the deadline, maybe. Finding a deal for Ferraro requires someone with a desire for someone to play at a position where there's typically no shortage of options at likely a 3rd pairing level which puts his 3.25 mil price tag and extra year of term in the expensive category. Nobody is going to want to middleman the retention on a contract with an extra year so I think we're kind of stuck with him. I'll be shocked if Rutta gets anything of worth by the trade deadline. He's getting worse and worse and we're not a team made to make someone look better honestly.
 
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Star Platinum

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Maybe but who would really want either Ferraro or Rutta now? At the deadline, maybe. Finding a deal for Ferraro requires someone with a desire for someone to play at a position where there's typically no shortage of options at likely a 3rd pairing level which puts his 3.25 mil price tag and extra year of term in the expensive category. Nobody is going to want to middleman the retention on a contract with an extra year so I think we're kind of stuck with him. I'll be shocked if Rutta gets anything of worth by the trade deadline. He's getting worse and worse and we're not a team made to make someone look better honestly.
That's what I'm saying. I don't think there's much of a market for him and most teams probably have seven guys on their roster that are already better than him. Unless somebody lost a bottom pair defensemen to serious injury and had absolutely nothing on their AHL team, I just don't see anybody wanting him to be someone they would actually play. I could only see him moving in a deal the way Matt Benning did, to get skyboxed by the team taking him on which they have (he's not logged a single minute of ice-time with Toronto since the trade).

Our defense really is something special.
 

Cas

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I suppose we could buy Ferraro out next summer.

Should have done it this summer, though and saved a ton of cap space.

This is, of course, nothing more than a fantasy.
 

weastern bias

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Because those players give their all every shift. They're not the most talented players in the league but criticizing them won't change that. Whereas Eklund should be working harder on the forecheck and there's a chance cutting his ice time and calling him out will wake him up.
Mario Ferraro gets caught puck watching constantly, his effort is overrated
 

Pinkfloyd

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That's what I'm saying. I don't think there's much of a market for him and most teams probably have seven guys on their roster that are already better than him. Unless somebody lost a bottom pair defensemen to serious injury and had absolutely nothing on their AHL team, I just don't see anybody wanting him to be someone they would actually play. I could only see him moving in a deal the way Matt Benning did, to get skyboxed by the team taking him on which they have (he's not logged a single minute of ice-time with Toronto since the trade).

Our defense really is something special.
It's probably in the Sharks' best interest to keep Ferraro for the time being because of his play level and contract. I think the earliest we move him is July at this point but nothing is set in stone. There's still 49 games for him to build himself up to the trade deadline. I don't see a team wanting to bring Ferraro in to be a #7. Rutta maybe since he plays the right side and has championship experience at the depth level.

I'm okay with holding onto Ferraro. Rutta's the one I want to get rid of now especially because we have Liljegren and Thompson. But there's no way the Sharks move him now unless someone has a player on defense that they'd like to get rid of that picking up Rutta would be the cheaper option. I just don't see that out there. I think Rutta is one we're going to be stuck with and let expire rather than find a taker for.
 

TheBeard

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Ferraro on a better team where he's not asked to do more than he should be asked to do would excel. Deeper teams would excel with him. Vegas playing him on the 3rd pairing would be ideal for them. Same with Florida, Edmonton and Dallas.
 

Cas

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Ferraro on a better team where he's not asked to do more than he should be asked to do would excel. Deeper teams would excel with him. Vegas playing him on the 3rd pairing would be ideal for them. Same with Florida, Edmonton and Dallas.
So we're carrying a #6 defenseman being paid $2 million more than he's worth, and playing him like a #1 with a letter.

I don't think he would excel, either - just tread water. Frankly, he's just not good and has zero positive attributes on the ice.
 
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TheBeard

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So we're carrying a #6 defenseman being paid $2 million more than he's worth, and playing him like a #1 with a letter.

I don't think he would excel, either - just tread water. Frankly, he's just not good and has zero positive attributes on the ice.
I think spending the last four years playing with bad teammates/d-partner have forced him to pick up some bad habits and mental breakdowns. I think playing on a team with forwards who have skill and a partner he can rely on not to mention playing 15 minutes a game vs the 20:30 he's playing now would make a difference.
 

Pavelski2112

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Because those players give their all every shift. They're not the most talented players in the league but criticizing them won't change that. Whereas Eklund should be working harder on the forecheck and there's a chance cutting his ice time and calling him out will wake him up.
Effort doesn't mean anything without results

It's good to have guys who can show the youth how hard they need to work, but they can't also be players who consistently have terrible habits as well
 
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Timo Time

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Ferraro at 100% effort is still, unequivocally, mega ass.

The options to replace him from within aren't really there. If Mukh could maintain health and prove he belongs to stay up, then that's the best outcome.

The problem with Mario is he excels at "trying" but he makes the wrong play consistently that he has to exert even more effort to make up for mistakes.
 
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Star Platinum

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Ferraro on a better team where he's not asked to do more than he should be asked to do would excel. Deeper teams would excel with him. Vegas playing him on the 3rd pairing would be ideal for them. Same with Florida, Edmonton and Dallas.
Why would other teams excel with him? There's no aspect of the game that he's even at an average NHL defenseman level at. He's not big, he's not quick, his passing is dreadful, he's no threat to score, and he doesn't have some great hockey sense to make up for any of it. There's no skill for him to lean on where another defenseman that is strong in other areas could make up for that would make him shine.

Ruuta may not be any good anymore either, but at least when he gets to his destination, he has the size and strength to compete for the puck. Ferraro doesn't even have that. He is an AHL level talent who jumped straight from college to the pros and probably should have been a career minor league player.
 
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Pinkfloyd

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Ferraro on a better team where he's not asked to do more than he should be asked to do would excel. Deeper teams would excel with him. Vegas playing him on the 3rd pairing would be ideal for them. Same with Florida, Edmonton and Dallas.
Yeah but would any of those deeper teams want to spend the extra cap for that spot? Dallas and Florida both have defensemen in that spot better than Ferraro so I don't think they'd have interest. If I were Vegas, I'd prefer Ben Hutton there over Ferraro but I suppose it's possible that they'd want to add depth there. Edmonton makes some sense but I think they're itching to find a partner for Nurse to replace Ceci.
 

LilLeeroy

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Why would other teams excel with him? There's no aspect of the game that he's even at an average NHL defenseman level at. He's not big, he's not quick, his passing is dreadful, he's no threat to score, and he doesn't have some great hockey sense to make up for any of it. There's no skill for him to lean on where another defenseman that is strong in other areas could make up for that would make him shine.

Ruuta may not be any good anymore either, but at least when he gets to his destination, he has the size and strength to compete for the puck. Ferraro doesn't even have that. He is an AHL level talent who jumped straight from college to the pros and probably should have been a career minor league player.
Seriously, even if you had the perfect partner for him, somebody with fantastic puck skills that is still responsible defensively, why would you want to pair somebody up like that with Ferraro?

He was okay for a young defender 4-5 years ago, and that is all he has ever done.
 

Cas

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I think spending the last four years playing with bad teammates/d-partner have forced him to pick up some bad habits and mental breakdowns. I think playing on a team with forwards who have skill and a partner he can rely on not to mention playing 15 minutes a game vs the 20:30 he's playing now would make a difference.
But he's not even average at anything. His best attributes top out below but perhaps near average, but all of his core attributes (skating, strength, positioning, passing, shooting) are weak or just garbage.

Seriously, what does he do at even an NHL average level? Even to play a weak partner, third pairing role, you need to do something well.
 

Juxtaposer

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Because those players give their all every shift. They're not the most talented players in the league but criticizing them won't change that. Whereas Eklund should be working harder on the forecheck and there's a chance cutting his ice time and calling him out will wake him up.
Tell me with a straight face you think Goodrow has given his all every shift. Because he's been ass since game 1 and if this is the best he can do then he shouldn't be in the NHL and Grier is a moron for taking him on.
 

TheBeard

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I think too many are basing what Mario has done in the last calendar year and forgetting what he did the first 6-7 years. I don’t think we’ve had a coach or style in place since Deboer that ever prioritizes fixing the defense or their bad habits. But hey, we all have our own opinions.

Tell me with a straight face you think Goodrow has given his all every shift. Because he's been ass since game 1 and if this is the best he can do then he shouldn't be in the NHL and Grier is a moron for taking him on.
I think there’s a fine line between looking lazy and frustrated. Not letting goodrow off the hook but I see the effort.
 

TheBeard

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Yeah but would any of those deeper teams want to spend the extra cap for that spot? Dallas and Florida both have defensemen in that spot better than Ferraro so I don't think they'd have interest. If I were Vegas, I'd prefer Ben Hutton there over Ferraro but I suppose it's possible that they'd want to add depth there. Edmonton makes some sense but I think they're itching to find a partner for Nurse to replace Ceci.
Dallas’ bottom pairing is bad. Lundqvist is a useless d-man playing almost by default.
 

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