GDT: GAME 13 | Zub Returns vs the Islanders | Thu Nov 7th 2024, 7PM | TSN5, RDSI

[Gil Gunderson]

This Team has mastered in doing just enough to lose a game

At least Batherson was visible for a change

Should've traded Batherson and Norris in the offseason for top-4 dmen

I don’t think that would make much of a difference. Until our forwards can actually hit the net in crucial moments we will be stuck in .500 hell. Stu is great but him getting 2 assist when we’re already down 3-0 in a game means f*** all. Score on your chances when the game is actually winnable.

 

[Game 7 Meltdown]

We need to trade the in arena announcer too.

Yep He's under the impression that he's the main attraction. "The Sens are on the power play!" Woah, that's value added rink announcing right there.

 

[Mr Hat]

Look, I'm not suggesting this roster should be ran back next year. But this season was always going to be about assessing where the team was at and who would stay, who would go. Staios is still handcuffed by a litany of Dorion's blunders - not least of which is the loss of a 1st round pick this year or next. So any moves are going to likely be of the player-in-player-out variety. Truth is, there aren't many beyond Stutzle, Tkachuk, Sanderson, Pinto that would fetch much of anything right now. So the best course is to have patience and hope that some players improve their value ahead of the off season - then maybe we see some moves. Personally, I'd like to see some guys spend a night in the press box and be embarrassed by it - Norris, Greig, Amadio come to mind immediately, I'd let Tkachuk sit for a period next time he tried a stupid trick shot, and Cousins/Gregor...not sure one shouldn't be waived rfn to make room for Ostapchuk to stay full-time.

Or maybe Perron and Pinto come back and everything is good again!

Good post, overall I agree with all your points. Just seemed from a small sample size this team could make it to the playoffs and maybe get lucky. Now it seems maybe we get lucky and make the playoffs and get destroyed. Specifically I point out Brady as being below an acceptable standard for captain in everything but points. How can we be a threat when our captain is a liability half of the season. It hurts after this long and can’t kick the can down the road much longer befor checking out again and maybe in 2030 it’s worth watching sens again

 

[Loach]

I turned the game off when it was 2-0. Reading all this now, I keep thinking of what Andlauer has said on multiple occaisions. He can't hold people accountable if he doesn't put them in a position to succeed. Well, alot of work has been done to the organization to set things up. Seems it's on the players now. They don't have any outs left. This trade deadline and draft are going to see some big changes happen if the guys don't get it together, maybe sooner. Staios, Martin, Alfie and company saw how half the team sulked when DJ got fired. They didn't forget. They see who is trying to play now. There are expections from the owner, management and coaches now. Whoever sulks or caves will get moved. So much has changed I'm ok with letting them get their footing. I still think they can figure it out, but the changes will cut deep if they can't.

Edit. I just watched Green's postgame. I get the feeling the boys are going to catch all the shit if they play another game like they have been.

 

[Tuna99]

There’s nothing to say. We are now a cliché, there is only 1 solution and that’s to make the playoffs. Not come close, not have a good run - it’s make the playoffs or this thing is in the same spot it was 8 years ago, spinning its tires but now with better pre game ceremonies and a new off ramp so you can leave the stadium faster which I think is a hilarious cliche in itself of where the fans and the team are at right now.

If one thing Micheal Andlauer has done to improve the team it’s make it easier to leave the stadium so you don’t have to spend as much time watching these collapses night in and night out.

Thanks Mike!!

 

[Micklebot]

It was bad. We can make all the excuses we like, but this is exactly what our team did last season. Late period goals against, early period goals against. A lack of attention to detail, a lack of playing hard all the way through the game. Tonight was a typical give-it-away early Ottawa Senators game. If Green can't beat this out of them, then it's time to start talking trades and coach firing again.

The first goal was with 5 mins left in the 2nd period, a period where we were the better team up until that point. We didn't give it away early, this is exactly the type of warped perception I'm talking about. The game had it's back and fourth, we were better some of it, they were better some of it, but some are acting like we got run out of the building from puck drop, it's fiction.

 

[TeamRenzo]

We sucked in the first period, came away tied

We were much better the second period, but a breakdown and a brutal none call lead to two goals against.

Third was a bad goalie giveaway putting us in too deep a hole to get out of, though we did turn it up and make it close.

The game wasn't as bad as some are making it out to be but it also wasn't good enough, especially the first.

It was a loss...end of story! The reasons why don't matter, same old Sens

 

[Micklebot]

It was a loss...end of story! The reasons why don't matter, same old Sens

Of course the reasons matter, that's what we need to address to improve.

edit: You don't improve by ignoring the causes of your failure

 

[TeamRenzo]

Of course the reasons matter, that's what we need to address to improve.

Oh yeah, so you plan on addressing the reason to help the team improve?

 

[Tuna99]

The first goal was with 5 mins left in the 2nd period, a period where we were the better team up until that point. We didn't give it away early, this is exactly the type of warped perception I'm talking about. The game had it's back and fourth, we were better some of it, they were better some of it, but some are acting like we got run out of the building from puck drop, it's fiction.

Didn’t look like a blowout because NYI didn’t it plan it that way, they planned a slow road game death and that’s exactly what happened

At no pint watching last night did I think Ottawa was the better team, was convinced Ottawa would win the game, or did any Sens player stand out besides Forsberg.

NYI playing a road game, if that was Ottawa playing a road game you’d say they played it great. If you’re happy with Ottawa performance last night with NYI playing a controlled road game well within their capacity and Ottawa looking 50/50 within that system which is exactly what NYI want, then your playing the game the opposition wants and your losing because your playing on their terms and ultimately they lost the game because NYI executed the game plan - play a boring game and choke them out. It worked

 

[Micklebot]

Oh yeah, so you plan on addressing the reason to help the team improve?

I would hope the team does. I mean, it's a discussion board, so that's what we talk about, telling people the reason for the loss doesn't matter is just needlessly trying to shut down conversation in a place people come to discuss the games and team. Seems kind of dumb.

 

[Micklebot]

Didn’t look like a blowout because NYI didn’t it plan it that way, they planned a slow road game death and that’s exactly what happened

At no pint watching last night did I think Ottawa was the better team, was convinced Ottawa would win the game, or did any Sens player stand out besides Forsberg.

NYI playing a road game, if that was Ottawa playing a road game you’d say they played it great. If you’re happy with Ottawa performance last night with NYI playing a controlled road game well within their capacity and Ottawa looking 50/50 within that system which is exactly what NYI want, then your playing the game the opposition wants and your losing because your playing on their terms and ultimately they lost the game because NYI executed the game plan - play a boring game and choke them out. It worked

NYI always play a grinding low event game, nothing to do with it being a road game or not. It didn't look like a blowout because on the aggregate it was in fact a pretty evenly played game. They were playing better in the first, we were playing better in the 2nd. A bit of score effect in the third, but we did get the better of it and made the game close.

The NYI win was dictated by two key events that game, a badly missed call leading to a Pageau breakaway, and a goalie giveaway resulting in both D being out of position to defend. Maybe you can give them credit on "forcing" the giveaway by Forsberg, but the game could have gone either way, people are just sour because the team is in a skid so anything less than controlling the play 60 mins is us getting manhandled.

 

[Tuna99]

NYI always play a grinding low event game, nothing to do with it being a road game or not. It didn't look like a blowout because on the aggregate it was in fact a pretty evenly played game. They were playing better in the first, we were playing better in the 2nd. A bit of score effect in the third, but we did get the better of it and made the game close.

The NYI win was dictated by two key events that game, a badly missed call leading to a Pageau breakaway, and a goalie giveaway resulting in both D being out of position to defend. Maybe you can give them credit on "forcing" the giveaway by Forsberg, but the game could have gone either way, people are just sour because the team is in a skid so anything less than controlling the play 60 mins is us getting manhandled.

Oh it was the refs, are you serious?

 

[Keli]

This Team has mastered in doing just enough to lose a game

At least Batherson was visible for a change

Should've traded Batherson and Norris in the offseason for top-4 dmen

Unforetunately, Norris’s contract is untradeable.

 

[Blotto71]

Good post, overall I agree with all your points. Just seemed from a small sample size this team could make it to the playoffs and maybe get lucky. Now it seems maybe we get lucky and make the playoffs and get destroyed. Specifically I point out Brady as being below an acceptable standard for captain in everything but points. How can we be a threat when our captain is a liability half of the season. It hurts after this long and can’t kick the can down the road much longer befor checking out again and maybe in 2030 it’s worth watching sens again

I understand and have the same frustration. 13 games in and maybe Green is truly starting to see the enormity of his task - these men have been conditioned to be okay with showing up when they feel like it. But when they do show up, man, they can play with just about anyone! Which makes it so much harder to watch when they don't. Green needs to figure out how to get through to them, and think some public shaming is the way to go at this point - Tkachuk, Amadio, Norris, others need to be held accountable and spend time watching games. And for Brady, I'd make a point of benching him when daddy is in the stands and then I'd make a point of putting him infront of reporters - that C should mean more than being the "C"lown at practice.

 

[Micklebot]

Oh it was the refs, are you serious?

So are you saying that the making the call on the blatantly missed penalty against Giroux leading that lead to a breakaway goal wouldn't have impacted the game?

Are you serious?

What I'm saying is the game was closer than the emo complaints make it out to be. I'm not saying we definitely would have won if the call had been made, but we definitely lost and that call was a big part of why

 

[jbeck5]

Tell me where we lack talent? Our team is every bit as talented as Florida. It's the brand of hockey this team learned from DJ Smith for too f***ing long. They need to get past that. They also need to learn to play with intensity all game long, every game. Colorado and many other teams get beaten like this on certain games. But the difference is they are more consistent at winning and creating winning streaks. This team doesn't have that consistency. It has nothing to do with talent. There is plenty of talent here.

They have you thinking they're more talented than they are because they cheat so much for offense that they post decent numbers.

You have to stop thinking of the players as being as skilled as their point totals or some of the one off plays they make.

If they would be taking care of their own end first, their offense would be much lower and wouldn't give people as much belief of them being so talented.

Getting 60 points on Ottawa is like getting 50 on a defensively responsible team.

Doesn't mean that our 60 point players are more talented than a good teams 50 point players...its that those 50 point players are putting in an effort to reduce goals against by 10-15 goals.


You're using offensive output to determine skill when it should be offensive output +defensive output to determine skill.


Being able to produce offense while being solid defensively takes more talent than producing offense while cheating on defense.

Stü is not as defensively responsible as Barkov and he also isn't as big as Barkov. He's definitely more offensively talented than Barkov. Brady is better than Matthew. The difference is, Matthew has been on some playoff teams and knows how to play playoff hockey. Matthew also has a penchant for disappearing in the playoffs at times.

Are you seriously suggesting Lundell is better than Norris? Norris has been injured for nearly two full seasons. He's been decent, but snake bitten lately. He's actually one of the better players on the ice lately. Unless he's scoring though, people here hate him.


Based on everything he does, every night. The only thing I don't like about Brady is his habit of leaving the D zone too early. Otherwise he plays like any team would want. Hard on the forecheck, hard in front of the net. Crashing, banging and being strong on the puck. However, like every other player on this team, he needs to learn that offense comes from a good defense. He like others need to hound the puck in every zone. This isn't a one player mentality here. They all need to be better.

Sounds like the most biased post ever. Put those comparisons on the main board and you would get laughed at.

Take off your rose gold coloured glasses. Come on man. Even sens fans will laugh at your post. Not accurate at all.

 

[jbeck5]

It was twelve years between 2000 and 2012 before Florida made a playoff birth.

Cool. We're the 2007 Panthers. 5 more years of garbage to go before we get a proper core who knows how to win hockey games.

Look, I'm not suggesting this roster should be ran back next year. But this season was always going to be about assessing where the team was at and who would stay, who would go. Staios is still handcuffed by a litany of Dorion's blunders - not least of which is the loss of a 1st round pick this year or next. So any moves are going to likely be of the player-in-player-out variety. Truth is, there aren't many beyond Stutzle, Tkachuk, Sanderson, Pinto that would fetch much of anything right now. So the best course is to have patience and hope that some players improve their value ahead of the off season - then maybe we see some moves. Personally, I'd like to see some guys spend a night in the press box and be embarrassed by it - Norris, Greig, Amadio come to mind immediately, I'd let Tkachuk sit for a period next time he tried a stupid trick shot, and Cousins/Gregor...not sure one shouldn't be waived rfn to make room for Ostapchuk to stay full-time.

Or maybe Perron and Pinto come back and everything is good again!

Last year was the year where they were assessing everything they had.

Then they changed like a third of the roster in the off season AFTER spending all last year fiddling their thumbs ASSESSING the team.

This year was not meant to be a second full year of assessment. Not at all.

 

[Micklebot]

Getting 60 points on Ottawa is like getting 50 on a defensively responsible team.

So, lots of complaints about this team cheating, but in my viewings, most of the goals against relate to breakdowns or an errant pass rather than giving up defensive play to cheat for offense.

Looking at the stats so far,

We are 14th in CA/60 but 8the in FA/60, that suggests we're pretty average in terms of DZ time, but we've got guys in lanes blocking the shots.

We're actually 6th in xGA/60 and 17th in xGF/60,

We aren't a run and gun team, we're not high event, so I don't know where you're getting the idea that players in Ottawa would score less on other teams, wae are a team that has defensive collapses tht undo the good we do in the rest of a game..

 

[jbeck5]

I've been reading a lot about this idea on here recently so I decided I'd look into it, and it turns out the Senators are actually extremely bad against the good teams.

In the 22/23 and 23/24 seasons combined, the Sens were 30-46-7 against playoff teams. The same period against non-playoff teams? 46-30-5.

So the problem is actually the opposite of what many people are suggesting - they are just not competitive against good teams. Intuitively, this makes much more sense.

I don't think it's that we did good against good teams and bad against bad teams as other may have suggested. Obviously proven by your stats.

I think the issue was every once in a while they would play a really good game against a good team giving fans hope of them turning a corner only to then lose against a shitty team in bad fashion lol

I think people were misremembering or mispoke.

 

[jbeck5]

The first goal was with 5 mins left in the 2nd period, a period where we were the better team up until that point. We didn't give it away early, this is exactly the type of warped perception I'm talking about. The game had it's back and fourth, we were better some of it, they were better some of it, but some are acting like we got run out of the building from puck drop, it's fiction.

It's warped perception for sure, but almost rightfully so.

We knew how frustrated the team was after the big Buffalo loss.

When a good team gets blown out by a bad team, they come back flying out of the gate the next game.

You always hear that from Vegas or Colorado. If they lost big to a shitty team, the next games strategy for the other team is all about handling the onslaught .

Obviously the sens aren't a good team, but people were hoping or expecting them to come out like gang busters for the first 10 minutes on home ice.

Nope.

Outshot 5-1 10 mins in..


So people were expecting a certain level of play at puckdrop and got much much worse...so it makes it seem like we were just ass from puckdrop on...but we did have our moments. We just don't have the skill or clutch level to finish those plays up.

 

[Tuna99]

So are you saying that the making the call on the blatantly missed penalty against Giroux leading that lead to a breakaway goal wouldn't have impacted the game?

Are you serious?

What I'm saying is the game was closer than the emo complaints make it out to be. I'm not saying we definitely would have won if the call had been made, but we definitely lost and that call was a big part of why

We are 1-3 in November, we never led in the game, we lost.

The Islanders planned to grind us out as you said above, and they did. And you’re saying it’s the refs - okay, if that’s what you got out is this maybe DJ Smith’s excuses do actually work on some of the fanbase.

 

[jbeck5]

It was twelve years between 2000 and 2012 before Florida made a playoff birth.

I remember that when they were perennial losers like we are now.

There was Atlanta before, too. Pheonix/Arizona.

There's always a couple shitty teams for a decade + every decade.

This time, it's the sens. We're a perennial loser that everyone uses as an example of as an always shitty team.

We are Tampa from the late 90s early 2000s.

We're Columbus.

We're those shitty teams you think of in the past.

(Edit sorry, I already responded to this post... The site keeps bringing me back up the page for some reason after scrolling)

 

[jbeck5]

So, lots of complaints about this team cheating, but in my viewings, most of the goals against relate to breakdowns or an errant pass rather than giving up defensive play to cheat for offense.

Looking at the stats so far,

We are 14th in CA/60 but 8the in FA/60, that suggests we're pretty average in terms of DZ time, but we've got guys in lanes blocking the shots.

We're actually 6th in xGA/60 and 17th in xGF/60,

We aren't a run and gun team, we're not high event, so I don't know where you're getting the idea that players in Ottawa would score less on other teams, wae are a team that has defensive collapses tht undo the good we do in the rest of a game..

I'm not saying they would score less on other teams...I'm saying they score more because they prioritize offense over defense.

Cheating for offense doesn't only mean blowing the zone early.

It means not making your focus in the defensive zone to be 100% about making sure they don't score.

There's plenty of missed coverage which is an example of this. You could argue that it's just that they're clueless in the defensive zone, but as someone who cheated for offense myself, I can see when they think there might be an opportunity for a turnover, many will abandon their man to "get open" before we even have possession of the puck...so on those 50-50 plays, leads to them having guys wide open who weren't wide open a second or two before. The players on our team were puck watching for opportunities to break out rather than focusing 100% on making sure their man isn't alone in front of the net and in a proper goal side defensive position.

 

[Loach]

I remember that when they were perennial losers like we are now.

There was Atlanta before, too. Pheonix/Arizona.

There's always a couple shitty teams for a decade + every decade.

This time, it's the sens. We're a perennial loser that everyone uses as an example of as an always shitty team.

We are Tampa from the late 90s early 2000s.

We're Columbus.

We're those shitty teams you think of in the past.

(Edit sorry, I already responded to this post... The site keeps bringing me back up the page for some reason after scrolling)

If you did the little things right and started strong....you would know what page you're on. At least you know you're on the wrong page now. You're benched next game. If you can't clean it up, I'm trading you out west. Lol.