Speculation: Gabriel Landeskog for Hampus Lindholm

[tucker3434]

The Ducks are going to lose a good Dman in the expansion draft , Lindholm isn't
going to be it though , better to target Fowler and have Ana add.

Not for Landeskog. Middle pairing defenders aren't really a big need for us. We've got Barrie, Beauchemin, Tyutin, and probably Zadorov as guys that can play that role. What we need is a true top pairing defender to play with EJ. Zadorov or Bigras could be that one day, but I could see why they'd want a sure thing right now. If that sure fire 1st pairing defender isn't on the table, the Avs aren't going to trade for the leftovers.

 

[eternalbedhead]

He has not become overrated. Most of the guys valuing Lindholm most highly aren't even Ducks fans.

Most of the guys valuing Lindholm most highly look at HERO charts for their info. He is the dictionary definition of an analytics darling.

 

[Vipers31]

Most of the guys valuing Lindholm most highly look at HERO charts for their info. He is the dictionary definition of an analytics darling.

Precisely. I mean, he does have the actual skill to back up most of what the data says, although the raw data would place him even higher in terms of current ability. A lot of Lindholm's value still comes from the promise that lies in such ability at his really young age, especially for a defenseman.

 

[eternalbedhead]

Precisely. I mean, he does have the actual skill to back up most of what the data says, although the raw data would place him even higher in terms of current ability. A lot of Lindholm's value still comes from the promise that lies in such ability at his really young age, especially for a defenseman.

I can agree there, although the data makes Lindholm look like a top-10 defender, which he isn't. (at least yet) However, defenders typically take longer to peak, so I'm very excited for him. Lots of potential. We shouldn't ever consider trading him.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Like I said before: I love #47 but he has now become overrated.

But I guess there's no harm in a fan base overrating their player.

No, more like it makes no sense to trade your best young player who plays a very important position for a winger when wing is the least important position on the team

 

[Meeqs]

Who cares who's better? Both guys are great players, both guys are great fits on their current teams and the fans love them. Also they aren't being traded for one another.

 

[Sojourn]

I can agree there, although the data makes Lindholm look like a top-10 defender, which he isn't. (at least yet) However, defenders typically take longer to peak, so I'm very excited for him. Lots of potential. We shouldn't ever consider trading him.

Does this make anyone else laugh? Usually fans will hype up their player like nothing else, or just be completely down on them... but we're actually saying "No, no. Lindholm isn't that good yet, but we think he's well on his way."

 

[Avs44]

Does this make anyone else laugh? Usually fans will hype up their player like nothing else, or just be completely down on them... but we're actually saying "No, no. Lindholm isn't that good yet, but we think he's well on his way."

Not really. Your fanbase has clearly rejected much of that "data" in the case of Cam Fowler, so doing anything but rejecting / toning down that same data in the case of Lindholm would be pretty hypocritical.

 

[Sojourn]

Not really. Your fanbase has clearly rejected much of that "data" in the case of Cam Fowler, so doing anything but rejecting / toning down that same data in the case of Lindholm would be pretty hypocritical.

It isn't rejecting the data. It's putting it into context. That's something I wish more people would realize. The whole Fowler argument isn't about denying the data. It's simply saying that the data is incomplete, and there is more information that the statistics won't tell you. The frustrating part of this is that this shouldn't be news to people. Hockey is a very complicated sport. There is a lot that is involved in the individual performance of a single player. Yet, somehow, people will scoff when it's suggested that the statistics don't tell everything?

Yes, the same is true of Lindholm. His shot differential numbers are clearly good, but in the context of his play it's clear he isn't that good. Not yet. There is a lot of potential there, and he's been very impressive.

And it wouldn't be the first time a fanbase was hypocritical over two different players.

 

[Avs44]

It isn't rejecting the data. It's putting it into context. That's something I wish more people would realize. The whole Fowler argument isn't about denying the data. It's simply saying that the data is incomplete, and there is more information that the statistics won't tell you. The frustrating part of this is that this shouldn't be news to people. Hockey is a very complicated sport. There is a lot that is involved in the individual performance of a single player. Yet, somehow, people will scoff when it's suggested that the statistics don't tell everything?

Yes, the same is true of Lindholm. His shot differential numbers are clearly good, but in the context of his play it's clear he isn't that good. Not yet. There is a lot of potential there, and he's been very impressive.

And it wouldn't be the first time a fanbase was hypocritical over two different players.

I wasn't passing judgement on Fowler, that debate isn't worth it, just pointing out I don't see anything too special about a few of your fans doing with Lindholm (context, looking past stats) what they've been telling everyone else they should be doing with Fowler.

 

[xxreact9]

Most of the guys valuing Lindholm most highly look at HERO charts for their info. He is the dictionary definition of an analytics darling.

You're very misinformed. Most Lindholm supporters actually watch him play hockey for 82 games per season and use analytics to back up what they physically observe. Both the eye test and the analytics test hold up for this kid.

 

[mytduxfan*]

Most of the guys valuing Lindholm most highly look at HERO charts for their info. He is the dictionary definition of an analytics darling.

What are you talking about? Those Warrior Charts tell the whole story. Lindholm is literally a top 10 D-man in the league, us Duck fans just don't know it yet. The numbers don't lie.

 

[Vipers31]

Not really. Your fanbase has clearly rejected much of that "data" in the case of Cam Fowler, so doing anything but rejecting / toning down that same data in the case of Lindholm would be pretty hypocritical.

Yeah, a fanbase on average coming off pretty hypocritical would be pretty rare.

 

[TopShelfWaterBottle]

Not for Landeskog. Middle pairing defenders aren't really a big need for us. We've got Barrie, Beauchemin, Tyutin, and probably Zadorov as guys that can play that role. What we need is a true top pairing defender to play with EJ. Zadorov or Bigras could be that one day, but I could see why they'd want a sure thing right now. If that sure fire 1st pairing defender isn't on the table, the Avs aren't going to trade for the leftovers.

Fowler is better dman then all those guy you listed and would make an excellent partner for EJ on the top pairing

 

[Avs44]

Fowler is better dman then all those guy you listed and would make an excellent partner for EJ on the top pairing

Better than Barrie? I know who I'd rather have. Regardless, even though I'd like Fowler, he's not good enough to tempt me for Landy whatsoever, which was the entire premise. He's an upgrade on Beauchemin, absolutely, but you don't trade Landeskog for just a younger upgrade on Beauch, you trade Landeskog if you're getting a potential #1, e.g. Lindholm, and keep him if that's impossible (which it likely is).

 

[tucker3434]

Fowler is better dman then all those guy you listed and would make an excellent partner for EJ on the top pairing

He isn't better than Barrie. He'd be an upgrade over Beauchemin or Tyutin, but not a huge one. Zadorov is an unknown. And I've seen absolutely nothing from Fowler that indicates he'd be able to handle top pairing duties. That would be just another case of forcing a player to play over his head due to lack of options. We already do that now. We aren't going to trade a guy like Landeskog for that.

 

[mytduxfan*]

Better than Barrie? I know who I'd rather have. Regardless, even though I'd like Fowler, he's not good enough to tempt me for Landy whatsoever, which was the entire premise. He's an upgrade on Beauchemin, absolutely, but you don't trade Landeskog for just a younger upgrade on Beauch, you trade Landeskog if you're getting a potential #1, e.g. Lindholm, and keep him if that's impossible (which it likely is).

I agree with the premise that you don't move guys like Landeskog for anything short of a potential #1D, but, at the same time, Landeskog isn't worth that.

 

[eternalbedhead]

You're very misinformed. Most Lindholm supporters actually watch him play hockey for 82 games per season and use analytics to back up what they physically observe. Both the eye test and the analytics test hold up for this kid.

I wasn't saying that Lindholm was significantly worse than what his HERO charts say (I don't think he's as good as they say based on personal observation, but they're at least close) but I was more saying how he's observed by most of the analytics community as at least a top-15 defender (I've seen several people make a case using his advanced stats for being top-10), hence them viewing him most highly.

What are you talking about? Those Warrior Charts tell the whole story. Lindholm is literally a top 10 D-man in the league, us Duck fans just don't know it yet. The numbers don't lie.

You're insane. Lindholm is the best defender, you lunatic!

 

[Sean Garrity]

He isn't better than Barrie. He'd be an upgrade over Beauchemin or Tyutin, but not a huge one. Zadorov is an unknown. And I've seen absolutely nothing from Fowler that indicates he'd be able to handle top pairing duties. That would be just another case of forcing a player to play over his head due to lack of options. We already do that now. We aren't going to trade a guy like Landeskog for that.

Do you mean outside of handling those duties on the team that won the Jennings last season with Kevin Bieksa as his main partner?

 

[Nordic*]

Lindholm didn't make the Swedish World Cup team. Not even as a backup.

Crazy.

 

[DisneyDucky]

Lindholm didn't make the Swedish World Cup team. Not even as a backup.

Crazy.

just cant get enough of that kronwalling

 

[tucker3434]

Do you mean outside of handling those duties on the team that won the Jennings last season with Kevin Bieksa as his main partner?

At most he splits that duty with Lindholm. Realistically, the top pairing is wherever Lindholm is.

In Colorado, the QOC gap between first and second pairing is enormous. If his possession stats look bad now, they'd be absolutely terrible on the first pairing in Colorado.

So, will say again: Cam Fowler is not the solution to Colorado's defensive woes. Sure, he'd improve our blueline, but not to the point where we'd trade a core player.

 

[nilssont]

Incredible btw how Hampus didnt get selected for the WC squad.

 

[Baemon Severson*]

well i guess we disagree ...


for the life of me, i cant see what Hall brings to the ice that would be more valued than the attributes Landeskog brings.


Landeskog > Hall AINEC actually ... anyhow, lets continue to derail the thread!

Outscoring him handily every year?

 

[mytduxfan*]

Outscoring him handily every year?

From a Ducks fan POV, I'd put Hall and Landeskog in the same group of 1st line LWs. Both are top class, it's just that Hall excels at generating offence, whilst Landeskog is a better 2-way player. Personally, I'd prefer Landeskog over Hall in ANA, but that's purely because I see him being the better fit.