TSN: Gaborik, Delisle, Parlett to CBJ for Brassard, Dorsett, Moore and 6th Round Pick

[ViD]

Gaborik must be missing Arty a lot. Since Anisimov's injury, Gabby has notched no goals and only 1 assist.

 

[Viqsi]

I merely wish to contribute the following:

• I'm still kind of "meh" about the trade, the same way I was about the Carter trade during that offseason before he showed us all just how much of a whiny loser he is. I've liked what I've seen so far, though.
• I still really regret losing Moore. Oh well.
• I do think that if this had been a Howson move that by now we'd be into a second thread's worth of "OMFG he threw away everything he's such a LOSER fire him fire him fire him" and that some folks ought to learn a thing or to about emotional context and the impact it has on their evaluations.
• I am very, very happy that FINALLY other folks are talking about how tanking and/or preferring losses is total bull**** for losers.
• I remain distantly amused that just because other people are doing the scoring while Gaborik is (for example) scaring the defense on reputation and causing them to overcommit, or screening the goaltender, or forcing turnovers, that this means Gaborik is not contributing to the team. [tacit_agenda]Gosh, that doesn't remind me of any other Jackets players. Certainly not any Jackets players wearing any numbers like, say, #18.[/tacit_agenda]

 

[GoJackets1]

I'm on to you, Viqsi...

 

[Xoggz22]

Gaborik may not be as visible on the score sheet, however, he's actually parked his butt in front of the net on a couple goals/opportunities, forced turnovers to lead to goals and is clearly the most respected offensive weapon on the CBJ. Other teams do not challenge the CBJ nearly as much when he's on the ice.

I know we live in a stats world and I want goals from Gaborik too but this team is freaking winning with regularity in a time they should be folding if they weren't truly a good team. Let's not focus on what we gave up but rather what we got and the team's performance.

 

[Moch Daear]

1. Gaborik's full value to this team will never be perfectly understood by outsiders. But we will try anyway because we want to.
A. We don't know how big of a teaching impact he is having/will have on young developing wingers like Cam and Cal. And beyond that once camp roles around.
B. We don't know the impact he is having on RyJo. A top winger can help develop young center men too.
C. We don't know the impact he has in training, in the locker room, etc.
D. We don't know the impact (quantifiable) that he is having on space on the ice for others, or the threat he registers.
2. In other words, we have no measure for the unquantifiable and those who come down on either side of the argument will press their side. Those against the trade use statistics. Those for the trade use the unquantifiable.
3. The team is winning. Things become easier to accept when we win. If he struggles during a team slump, I imagine people will be after him even more.

 

[InjuredChoker]

The team has one "star" skater. Before, Columbus didn't have a top line, and other teams didn't know where to put their shutdown D pair. Now other teams have someone to focus their attention on. Fortunately now that we have some depth, the other lines continue to score. Especially since they aren't seeing the top D line.

If he does nothing else but act as a decoy and let the other lines continue to score, everything works out well on the trade, especially if the team keeps winning.

Agreed.

Also it's harder to get easier match ups on the road for the players you want.

 

[Doug19]

Still meh about the trade myself, but his threat does open up the ice for others. Saying the same for Umberger has to be a joke though, I doubt any team has ever seen Umberger as a threat, hell they probably tell there D, just run into him on the walls, he'll cough up the puck every single time.

 

[Viqsi]

Still meh about the trade myself, but his threat does open up the ice for others. Saying the same for Umberger has to be a joke though, I doubt any team has ever seen Umberger as a threat, hell they probably tell there D, just run into him on the walls, he'll cough up the puck every single time.

Cherrypick one element that only applied in years past, focus on it as though it's the entire argument, and completely ignore the other elements that apply right now. Textbook hater response. I'll want to link to this exchange later for educational purposes.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Cherrypick one element that only applied in years past, focus on it as though it's the entire argument, and completely ignore the other elements that apply right now. Textbook hater response. I'll want to link to this exchange later for educational purposes.

Vile media term used to villify those who have the temerity to disagree with mainstream thinking. A term used to squelch dissent and an attempt to intimidate those who engage in independent thought.

Saved for future reference. As if needed. LOLOLOLOLOL

Umberger is now averaging less than two SOG per game. When Nash drew opponents away from him and created opportunities for him, he averaged 2.5-almost 3 SOG per game.

Umberger averages around 19 minutes per game. I doubt he's even on the radar of opponents coaching staffs' game plans. Most overused, ineffective third liners aren't.

 

[Doug19]

I just used the first part of my post to mask my hate post about umby as if it was partly on topic. I don't know if Gaborik opens up the ice for others or not. He seems just like a floater

 

[blahblah]

Cherrypick one element that only applied in years past, focus on it as though it's the entire argument, and completely ignore the other elements that apply right now. Textbook hater response. I'll want to link to this exchange later for educational purposes.

Doug61's analysis is just wrong in too many ways to count.

 

[Doug19]

I wish it were, but it's quite true that he coughs up the puck along the walls on a regular basis.

 

[blahblah]

I wish it were, but it's quite true that he coughs up the puck along the walls on a regular basis.

Of course. He's far more likely than anyone else on the Jackets to lose a board battle. Wrong thread for this conversation. I'll just leave it at, "typical whipping boy hyperbole".

 

[Viqsi]

Vile media term used to villify those who have the temerity to disagree with mainstream thinking. A term used to squelch dissent and an attempt to intimidate those who engage in independent thought.

Because, of course, the idea that Umberger doesn't suck is just such an overwhelmingly popular commonly accepted one that only lone voices in the darkness dare speak it - but never openly, for fear that they might be squashed by the almighty fist of the vox populi, the mighty Fans Of Umberger who seek nothing other than to silence these small Voices Of Truth and thus continue to sleep secure in their fantasies of non-sucky whipping boys.

WAKE UP SHEEPLE!
Prediction: the followup to this will be some sort of reference to my being a fan of the work of Scott Howson and/or belief in the potential NHL future of Steve Mason.

Umberger is now averaging less than two SOG per game. When Nash drew opponents away from him and created opportunities for him, he averaged 2.5-almost 3 SOG per game.

What an excellent way of demonstrating what we've all known all long well before Nash left - that Umberger is a complimentary player, not a lead actor, and therefore cannot be expected to produce like such a player. It's almost as though he's an opportunistic second line winger.

Makes you wonder what he might be able to produce if he was playing on the same line as Gaborik, since Gaborik can have and has had a similar impact on defenses. Something to think about, eh?

 

[Doug19]

this made me laugh at work I have no clue what direction this moved to now. Admitadly if Umberger went and scored 40 goals next season I would still say he sucks. Yes, I do have an agenda if I ever mention his name

 

[Viqsi]

this made me laugh at work I have no clue what direction this moved to now. Admitadly if Umberger went and scored 40 goals next season I would still say he sucks. Yes, I do have an agenda if I ever mention his name

I'd claim to respect your honesty, but that would get in the way of my ambition for universal acceptance of MY agenda.

 

[FANonymous]

What an excellent way of demonstrating what we've all known all long well before Nash left - that Umberger is a complimentary player, not a lead actor, and therefore cannot be expected to produce like such a player. It's almost as though he's an opportunistic second line winger.

Really? 2nd liner?

Really?

I suppose we should just get this over with and have you set me on fire. No way is he performing like a 2nd liner for this team.

 

[CapnCornelius]

I can't believe people are really debating this trade.

Fact is that we gave up a bottom pairing d-man who has been surpassed already by the likes of Erixon and Prout, both of whom appear to have more upside, and that ignores the fact that Ryan Murray probably would have passed him on the depth chart had he been healthy. We also gave up guy who will never be more than a third line checking player at best and at worst is a fourth line grinder (who has already been replaced nicely by Blake Comeau). On last year's Jackets, maybe Dorsett's "heart and soul" would have been more invaluable, on this year's? Plenty of guys fit the bill already. Lastly, we gave a guy who was a second/third line tweener center who is, at best, redundant with a number of other guys on the team and who will also be planning to get a pay raise when a guy like Letestu already provides more value at a lower cap figure. In return, we got a guy who has 7 points in 10 games, which is better than .55/game that Moore and Brassard contributed combined during their time with the Jackets this year.

Would Howson have been beaten about the head for this trade? I doubt it. No one complained too much at the time that Carter was acquired and, at best, I think the reaction to Jack Johnson being acquired was mixed, though I think the overall CW was positive about that trade.

Of course, Carter trade should give you a good indication that first impressions aren't always right because I'd argue that Howson's biggest downfall was that he struggled to properly factor in team chemistry. Take a look at what happened after letting Malhotra go and trading Chimera--he desperately acquired washed up vets like Clark and Moreau to attempt to rebuild some of the "glue" that had been lost.

In that respect, as with any player with a small sample size, the verdict is still out on Gabby though all signs point towards him fitting into the team's chemistry just fine given his past performances with several of the guys on the team. That doesn't change the fact, however, that we already knew what Brassard, Moore and Dorsett provided to the team and none of them were a necessity as the team moved forward.

 

[Timeless Winter]

No way is he performing like a 2nd liner for this team.

Not this year, no. I don't think anyone can debate that.

 

[Socks]

What an excellent way of demonstrating what we've all known all long well before Nash left - that Umberger is a complimentary player, not a lead actor, and therefore cannot be expected to produce like such a player. It's almost as though he's an opportunistic second line winger.

Viq, you know I luvs ya, and I'm an Umby fan. But. Umby has not produced at second line level this year. And that's fine. He is where he is right now. I know others will ***** and moan about his salary, but it doesn't bother me. I'm not the one paying him and it's not really hurting us.

As for Gabby, he may not have shown up on the score sheet last night but I thought he had a good game.

 

[pete goegan]

I can't believe people are really debating this trade.

Fact is that we gave up a bottom pairing d-man who has been surpassed already by the likes of Erixon and Prout, both of whom appear to have more upside, and that ignores the fact that Ryan Murray probably would have passed him on the depth chart had he been healthy. We also gave up guy who will never be more than a third line checking player at best and at worst is a fourth line grinder (who has already been replaced nicely by Blake Comeau). On last year's Jackets, maybe Dorsett's "heart and soul" would have been more invaluable, on this year's? Plenty of guys fit the bill already. Lastly, we gave a guy who was a second/third line tweener center who is, at best, redundant with a number of other guys on the team and who will also be planning to get a pay raise when a guy like Letestu already provides more value at a lower cap figure. In return, we got a guy who has 7 points in 10 games, which is better than .55/game that Moore and Brassard contributed combined during their time with the Jackets this year.

Would Howson have been beaten about the head for this trade? I doubt it. No one complained too much at the time that Carter was acquired and, at best, I think the reaction to Jack Johnson being acquired was mixed, though I think the overall CW was positive about that trade.

Of course, Carter trade should give you a good indication that first impressions aren't always right because I'd argue that Howson's biggest downfall was that he struggled to properly factor in team chemistry. Take a look at what happened after letting Malhotra go and trading Chimera--he desperately acquired washed up vets like Clark and Moreau to attempt to rebuild some of the "glue" that had been lost.

In that respect, as with any player with a small sample size, the verdict is still out on Gabby though all signs point towards him fitting into the team's chemistry just fine given his past performances with several of the guys on the team. That doesn't change the fact, however, that we already knew what Brassard, Moore and Dorsett provided to the team and none of them were a necessity as the team moved forward.

I value Moore a bit more, but other than that,

Yep.

 

[major major]

I can't believe people are really debating this trade.

Fact is that we gave up a bottom pairing d-man who has been surpassed already by the likes of Erixon and Prout, both of whom appear to have more upside, and that ignores the fact that Ryan Murray probably would have passed him on the depth chart had he been healthy. We also gave up guy who will never be more than a third line checking player at best and at worst is a fourth line grinder (who has already been replaced nicely by Blake Comeau). On last year's Jackets, maybe Dorsett's "heart and soul" would have been more invaluable, on this year's? Plenty of guys fit the bill already. Lastly, we gave a guy who was a second/third line tweener center who is, at best, redundant with a number of other guys on the team and who will also be planning to get a pay raise when a guy like Letestu already provides more value at a lower cap figure. In return, we got a guy who has 7 points in 10 games, which is better than .55/game that Moore and Brassard contributed combined during their time with the Jackets this year.

If you read back in this thread I don't think you'll find many, if any, Jackets' fans writing that this trade made the Jackets a worse team. In a previous post I detailed some of the other ways in which this trade is not good: timing, value management, etc...

To provide an example, Moore has a low points per game and was buried on the depth chart, obviously he wasn't helping us now. But we must also consider his substantial remaining upside. I think Moore should still be considered a prospect, despite his full NHL season a year ago. And we traded him for a guy who the Rangers were considering buying out in the summer. So I think we could have gotten a better deal if we waited until then.

 

[EspenK]

I'm with Capn. We traded for a guy who could score 30 or more goals next year. We gave up potential in one guy-the other two we knew what we had and as it has turned out they were redundant. Timing, value mgt (wtf is that?), potential,heart and soul, etc be damned this was a good trade that could turn out great.

 

[blahblah]

I value Moore a bit more, but other than that

I tend to agree with this statement. Capn probably should have prefaced his analysis of Moore with "current bottom pairing". Perhaps that is what he intended.

 

[Nordique]

I can't believe people are really debating this trade.

Fact is that we gave up a bottom pairing d-man who has been surpassed already by the likes of Erixon and Prout, both of whom appear to have more upside, and that ignores the fact that Ryan Murray probably would have passed him on the depth chart had he been healthy. We also gave up guy who will never be more than a third line checking player at best and at worst is a fourth line grinder (who has already been replaced nicely by Blake Comeau). On last year's Jackets, maybe Dorsett's "heart and soul" would have been more invaluable, on this year's? Plenty of guys fit the bill already. Lastly, we gave a guy who was a second/third line tweener center who is, at best, redundant with a number of other guys on the team and who will also be planning to get a pay raise when a guy like Letestu already provides more value at a lower cap figure. In return, we got a guy who has 7 points in 10 games, which is better than .55/game that Moore and Brassard contributed combined during their time with the Jackets this year.

Would Howson have been beaten about the head for this trade? I doubt it. No one complained too much at the time that Carter was acquired and, at best, I think the reaction to Jack Johnson being acquired was mixed, though I think the overall CW was positive about that trade.

Of course, Carter trade should give you a good indication that first impressions aren't always right because I'd argue that Howson's biggest downfall was that he struggled to properly factor in team chemistry. Take a look at what happened after letting Malhotra go and trading Chimera--he desperately acquired washed up vets like Clark and Moreau to attempt to rebuild some of the "glue" that had been lost.

In that respect, as with any player with a small sample size, the verdict is still out on Gabby though all signs point towards him fitting into the team's chemistry just fine given his past performances with several of the guys on the team. That doesn't change the fact, however, that we already knew what Brassard, Moore and Dorsett provided to the team and none of them were a necessity as the team moved forward.

Redundant, that is the word I would use to descriibe all 3 of those pieces we moved to get Gaborik.

Depth, that is probably the biggest ding on this move, we lost a solid bottom pairing dman, a 2nd line center and 3rd line banger.

All good guys, all surely will contribute in NY. All also very redundant with the roster we have now, but valuable when the injuries start piling up.