G Yaroslav Askarov (2020, 11th, NSH; traded to SJS) - PART 2

[Dirtyf1ghter]

On injuries

1. He's missed ~30 games 3 of the last 5 seasons.
2. In 11 seasons he's missed ~30 seasons 5 times
3. He's had 3 (maybe 4?) knee surgeries

Outstanding player, even better human being, one of my favorites but he is 100% injury prone.

Coverting 30 year old Hertl into 22 year old Askarov is amazing work from Mike Grier. Could work out for Vegas. Could work out for Hertl. Could be a bust for the Sharks, but I do this trade every time.

6th player in the 2012 draft in games played starting at age 20. Forsberg played fewer games starting before him. Girgensons, Teravainen are also behind. NHL players very rarely play a full regular season.

So if he is injury prone according to your criteria, the majority of the league is injury prone.

So you can confidently say that he's not declining without watching him play? Sure.

I didn't say I'd never seen him play. If you know the NHL, you know how San Jose was the last 5-6 years.

 

[Shroud of Orrin]

Good work by Grier.
Smith, Celebrini, Dickinson and Askarov! Nothing wrong with that group.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Good work by Grier.
Smith, Celebrini, Dickinson and Askarov! Nothing wrong with that group.

Celebrini and Smith were inevitable. Dickinson an obvious one. Like Musty and Chernyshov. But yes San Jose has drafted well since 2022. I really liked the 11 vs 27 & 34 exchange when San Jose's prospect bank was empty.

But the trade to get Askarov may not age well. Probably a top 10 or even top 5 pick for a goalkeeper selected 11th who disappointed compared to 2020 expectations. If San Jose misses out on an elite talent for a disappointing goal, the song may sound different in a few years.

Currently, based on probabilities, Nashville wins the trade for having most likely optimized its 2020 11th pick. I thought about it 4 years ago because Saros was closing the door on Askarov. The resulting player will likely be better than Lundell.

 

[StreetHawk]

Celebrini and Smith were inevitable. Dickinson an obvious one. Like Musty and Chernyshov. But yes San Jose has drafted well since 2022. I really liked the 11 vs 27 & 34 exchange when San Jose's prospect bank was empty.

But the trade to get Askarov may not age well. Probably a top 10 or even top 5 pick for a goalkeeper selected 11th who disappointed compared to 2020 expectations. If San Jose misses out on an elite talent for a disappointing goal, the song may sound different in a few years.

The LV pick is protected iirc…. It will likely be a mid 20 something pick. Did SJ have another Kipper/Nabokov who were not high draft picks developing somewhere that are close to being nhl goalies?

Askarov is unproven but the market for good established nhl starters is slim at the best of times.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

The LV pick is protected iirc…. It will likely be a mid 20 something pick. Did SJ have another Kipper/Nabokov who were not high draft picks developing somewhere that are close to being nhl goalies?

Askarov is unproven but the market for good established nhl starters is slim at the best of times.

I may have misunderstood but I believe that San Jose will have the choice between its original pick or the Vegas pick, if Vegas top 10. That's how they translated it on Rds.

"Les Sharks auront le choix d'envoyer leur sélection ou celle de Vegas si cette dernière se retrouve dans le top-10."

So basically, if San Jose has pick SJ 4th and LV 8th, they can choose to give LV's pick. But if LV pick is rank 11 and +, Nashville takes SJ's pick.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I may have misunderstood but I believe that San Jose will have the choice between its original pick or the Vegas pick, if Vegas top 10. That's how they translated it on Rds.

"Les Sharks auront le choix d'envoyer leur sélection ou celle de Vegas si cette dernière se retrouve dans le top-10."

So basically, if San Jose has pick SJ 4th and LV 8th, they can choose to give LV's pick. But if LV pick is rank 11 and +, Nashville takes SJ's pick.

You have badly misunderstood this situation. The only way Nashville gets SJ's pick is if the Vegas pick ends up better (ie Vegas pick wins the lottery and the SJ pick doesn't).

 

[Patty Ice]

I may have misunderstood but I believe that San Jose will have the choice between its original pick or the Vegas pick, if Vegas top 10. That's how they translated it on Rds.

"Les Sharks auront le choix d'envoyer leur sélection ou celle de Vegas si cette dernière se retrouve dans le top-10."

So basically, if San Jose has pick SJ 4th and LV 8th, they can choose to give LV's pick. But if LV pick is rank 11 and +, Nashville takes SJ's pick.

Simply put, Nashville ends up with the lesser of the 1sts.

 

[Mattb124]

6th player in the 2012 draft in games played starting at age 20. Forsberg played fewer games starting before him. Girgensons, Teravainen are also behind. NHL players very rarely play a full regular season.

So if he is injury prone according to your criteria, the majority of the league is injury prone.



I didn't say I'd never seen him play. If you know the NHL, you know how San Jose was the last 5-6 years.

Hertl is injury-prone which becomes more problematic with age. Love the player, I’ve actually played bocci ball with him (great guy), but when you have had the degree of knee problems he has had it becomes a risk later in his contract. He is somewhat unique in that speed isn’t a big component of his game (similar to Joe Thornton), but that doesn’t matter if he can’t play.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

You have badly misunderstood this situation. The only way Nashville gets SJ's pick is if the Vegas pick ends up better (ie Vegas pick wins the lottery and the SJ pick doesn't).

If Top 10, SJS will have the choice to send their own 1st round pick or Vegas'

Source : Puckpedia

Hertl is injury-prone which becomes more problematic with age. Love the player, I’ve actually played bocci ball with him (great guy), but when you have had the degree of knee problems he has had it becomes a risk later in his contract. He is somewhat unique in that speed isn’t a big component of his game (similar to Joe Thornton), but that doesn’t matter if he can’t play.

I have just shown you that Hertl is one of those who has played the most. Stop insisting. It's factual. How can you be injury prone while being in 6th rank in games played in your draft class ?

 

[Patty Ice]

If Top 10, SJS will have the choice to send their own 1st round pick or Vegas'

Source : Puckpedia

What are you trying to argue here?

San Jose has the final call as per what you found from PuckPedia.

I have just shown you that Hertl is one of those who has played the most. Stop insisting. It's factual. How can you be injury prone while being in 6th rank in games played in your draft class ?

Apparently all those years we have missed Hertl due to injury, in the immortal words of Biggie Smalls, "it was all a dream."

 

[Juxtaposer]

If Top 10, SJS will have the choice to send their own 1st round pick or Vegas'

Source : Puckpedia


I have just shown you that Hertl is one of those who has played the most. Stop insisting. It's factual. How can you be injury prone while being in 6th rank in games played in your draft class ?

Let me put this plainly: the only way Nashville gets a, in your words, "probably top-10 or even top-5 pick" is if Vegas is one of the worst teams in the league. That's extremely, extremely unlikely.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

What are you trying to argue here?

San Jose has the final call as per what you found from PuckPedia.



Apparently all those years we have missed Hertl due to injury, in the immortal words of Biggie Smalls, "it was all a dream."



Apparently all those years we have missed Hertl due to injury, in the immortal words of Biggie Smalls, "it was all a dream."

1. Ok, poorly translated by Rds because poorly explain by PuckPedia

2. You can say that for 90% of the league because I've done research on attendance consistency, and very few do it better than Hertl.

8th in West last year, Marchessault and Stephenson less... it's going to be complicated this year for Vegas.

 

[Patty Ice]

Mark Twain has a quote about this so I'll just bow out.

 

[Mattb124]

If Top 10, SJS will have the choice to send their own 1st round pick or Vegas'

Source : Puckpedia


I have just shown you that Hertl is one of those who has played the most. Stop insisting. It's factual. How can you be injury prone while being in 6th rank in games played in your draft class ?

Stop being a pedant and look at the frequency with which he has missed ~30 games/season due to knee injuries (2016/2017 and 2023/2024). It is pretty obvious that he has a greater than average risk of slowing down prematurely later in his career due to previous injury than most.

 

[TheBeard]

Stop being pedantic and look at Eichel, Stone, Trocheck and many others. You can't be injury prone being 6th player in your draft class after 12 seasons. All players have injuries. Very few players who started after 2013 have more games than Hertl (only Draisaitl and Horvat).

He's played 55 or more games in 6/11 seasons. He's had multiple knee surgeries including one last year that took months to heal. He's high on that list of games because most of the players from that draft flamed out long ago.

Probably a top 10 or even top 5 pick for a goalkeeper selected 11th who disappointed compared to 2020 expectations. I

Why would it be a top 10 or even 5 pick? In order for that to be the case Vegas would have to finish there.

 

[Mattb124]

It is above all the presence since February 27, 2002 that I note... 22 years on the same subject. Difool on Skyrock does better but still... Time loop.


Stop being pedantic and look at Eichel, Stone, Trocheck and many others. You can't be injury prone being 6th player in your draft class after 12 seasons. All players have injuries. Very few players who started after 2013 have more games than Hertl (only Draisaitl and Horvat).

This would be a more fruitful discussion if you understood the past and the future are not the same thing.

 

[Bizz]

funny how the haters show up the second he winds up on the Sharks.

 

[coooldude]

I mean, that entire exchange didn't even mention Askarov once. We can all do a little better... But yes, bad misunderstanding by dirtyfighter that we did not send SJS's first round pick, but VGK's first round pick. And there's a likely meaningless protection that if somehow the VGK pick is better, because of the lottery, then we get to swap for it.

This would be a disaster if we sent SJS's pick. I'm not a big fan of sending VGK's but what's done is done and now we hopefully get to see Askarov start 10-15 games for the big club this season and play the rest in the AHL.

 

[hotcabbagesoup]

Mark Twain has a quote about this so I'll just bow out.

Mark Twain: the coldest winter I ever spent in my life was a summer in San Francisco.

 

[Le Rosbeef]

...hopefully get to see Askarov start 10-15 games for the big club this season and play the rest in the AHL.

Isn't that largely the reason he asked for a trade? I would expect him to be up with the big club.

 

[Caser]

 

[Albatros]

Isn't that largely the reason he asked for a trade? I would expect him to be up with the big club.

What does he care now that he has a one-way contract until 2027?

 

[coooldude]

Isn't that largely the reason he asked for a trade? I would expect him to be up with the big club.

After the trade Grier said he understands he has to earn his spot on the big club, but he also immediately signed an extension for 2x2. He wanted a path to being the starter and getting some NHL games. He gets that, but I don't think he's going to win the job out of camp.

 

[Hinterland]

I mean, that entire exchange didn't even mention Askarov once. We can all do a little better... But yes, bad misunderstanding by dirtyfighter that we did not send SJS's first round pick, but VGK's first round pick. And there's a likely meaningless protection that if somehow the VGK pick is better, because of the lottery, then we get to swap for it.

This would be a disaster if we sent SJS's pick. I'm not a big fan of sending VGK's but what's done is done and now we hopefully get to see Askarov start 10-15 games for the big club this season and play the rest in the AHL.

Askarov has to fix his positioning. That has to be done before he can start thinking about playing NHL games. He's obviously a huge talent and he's still young but I've seen no learning curve whatsoever since the draft. Since he asked for a trade despite not making progress at all I'm starting to wonder if he's delusional and hasn't even realized that he's not trending nicely and likely won't until he starts to work on his positioning.

The kid lost his net two playoff runs in a row now and he hasn't played 10, probably not even 5 consistent regular season games in a row for Milwaukee. If it wasn't for him being the top goalie prospect of the Franchise then he'd have been demoted to the ECHL long ago. He's relying on his talent (mostly reflexes and athleticism) to make saves but he doesn't have the technique and especially the positioning needed to make saves on a consistent basis. I suspected that he didn't understand the problem even ahead of him refusing to report to Milwaukee. He can still reach his full potential but he has to understand that he is the problem instead of blaming others. The sooner he identifies his weaknesses the better.

The Sharks are definitely trending upwards but likely won't be competitive for a while. Would be one heck of a hail mary commando to play Askarov while the team is still near the bottom of the league and while Askarov still has no foundation whatsoever and is almost exclusively relying on luck and talent. If he can't make saves on a consistent basis playing behind an overpowered AHL team then he's very likely to get lit up playing behind an overmatched NHL team. As an NHL goalie you can't keep losing your net...you're gonna get punished for faulty positioning no matter how gifted you are.

I think the smart decision for the Sharks would be to give Askarov at least one full AHL season. They also have to talk to the player and let him know what what the problem is, what he has to work on in order to earn NHL starts.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Future King or Shark

Lmao I got one