Future POWERHOUSE -- yay or nay?

[Axl Rhoadz]

I feel like everywhere we turn, we are talking about this plethora of amazing prospects that the Kings org currently holds. "A treasure chest of riches." IS IT REALISTIC to believe this team is going to be a powerhouse in 3-5 years?

I can't remember every paying so close attention to the prospect pipeline and I can't figure out if it's just because there's nothing better to talk about with this team or we really are in a place we've never seen before with what the future could be for the Kings. If this team turns into what it sounds like it should because of what's coming, Blake is going to be the f***ing man, no doubt.

How do you all see this playing out?

Click to read more...

 

[Statto]

It could easily end up being a Powerhouse roster, but it still need plenty to go right. Firstly they needs to hit their ceilings which is a challenge in of itself. Blake will end up trading a number of them as they cannot all play and he needs to move the correct ones.

However if he gets things mostly correct then, yes, this will be a special side.

 

[Lt Dan]

I feel like everywhere we turn, we are talking about this plethora of amazing prospects that the Kings org currently holds. ?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Still needs a lot to go right. Most importantly, need the blue chips to be blue chips. We've never had a problem turning out depth. Byfield, Turcotte, Clarke, imo Kaliyev--3 of the 4 have to be high-impact players, the rest kind of doesn't matter because we'll succeed on placement on volume alone. And then some will undoubtedly be traded to fill other holes--THAT is where the powerhouse will have to develop, and we are better positioned than anyone in the league from an asset and cap standpoint. That's the genius of what Blake has done quickly (and without coughing up Drew or Anze or Quick).

Look at the pool--if even 25% of the rest come remotely close to their potential, we're filling out a very, very good team.

This isn't just the Kings forum tooting our own horns, though--everywhere you look people are absolutely shocked at what Blake has put together in a short time.

 

[Yog S'loth]

It will all depend on how they turn out, and there are a lot of question marks.

Turcotte and Byfield haven't actually shown as much as top five picks should. Second-tier guys like Thomas and Madden haven't actually shown much of anything. Most prospects don't make it, and most of these guys won't.

But all you need is 2-3 to turn into real impact guys, and you can turn it around. Brian Boyle and Jeff Tambellini can bust if Dustin Brown becomes a stud.

Colton Teubert can be a wet fart as long as Drew Doughty can pick you up and carry you.

And Turcotte, Kupari, Grans, etc. can all turn into nothing and you'll be fine if Kaliyev and Clarke break out.

There's just no way to know.

After all, I'm still waiting for Pavel Rosa to stick, and I still cannot for the life of me understand how Kevin Brown didn't make it.

 

[King'sPawn]

I am always about watching them grow and evaluating over time. If things go right, then yes, the Kings could be a powerhouse. But the same could be said about any team.

I do like the direction they're going. I just am hesitant to name any team as a future powerhouse.

 

[kinghock]

Still needs a lot to go right. Most importantly, need the blue chips to be blue chips. We've never had a problem turning out depth. Byfield, Turcotte, Clarke, imo Kaliyev--3 of the 4 have to be high-impact players, the rest kind of doesn't matter because we'll succeed on placement on volume alone. And then some will undoubtedly be traded to fill other holes--THAT is where the powerhouse will have to develop, and we are better positioned than anyone in the league from an asset and cap standpoint. That's the genius of what Blake has done quickly (and without coughing up Drew or Anze or Quick).

Look at the pool--if even 25% of the rest come remotely close to their potential, we're filling out a very, very good team.

This isn't just the Kings forum tooting our own horns, though--everywhere you look people are absolutely shocked at what Blake has put together in a short time.

Kings still need to solidify goaltending position.
I like Peterson, but he is not 100% proven yet.
Something need to be done about it soon.
Also we need to get elite goalie prospect ASAP.
We have few good goaltending prospects, but nobody who is special.

 

[KINGS17]

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Kings still need to solidify goaltending position.
I like Peterson, but he is not 100% proven yet.
Something need to be done about it soon.
Also we need to get elite goalie prospect ASAP.
We have few good goaltending prospects, but nobody who is special.

Totally agree, and they TRIED to address that at this draft.

I agree on Peterson, I like him a lot and think he can be a top-1o goalie for some time. Not sure that's 'enough' but it's not an emergency quite yet--and what's good is we're loaded with assets to trade for an elite goalie/prospect if need be (which may be the case as they're harder/longer to develop anyway)

 

[BigKing]

I feel like everywhere we turn, we are talking about this plethora of amazing prospects that the Kings org currently holds. "A treasure chest of riches." IS IT REALISTIC to believe this team is going to be a powerhouse in 3-5 years?

I can't remember every paying so close attention to the prospect pipeline and I can't figure out if it's just because there's nothing better to talk about with this team or we really are in a place we've never seen before with what the future could be for the Kings. If this team turns into what it sounds like it should because of what's coming, Blake is going to be the f***ing man, no doubt.

How do you all see this playing out?

The Kings were going to be a powerhouse with the prospects that Lombardi put together during his rebuild. While they did become one for a three year stretch, his biggest contributing prospects were:

Doughty - A no development necessary complete stud from Day 1. He's almost like a UFA signing and not a prospect. He only contributed to the Kings Top 5 prospect ranking once since he graduated immediately.

Voynov - Real nice example of developing a guy over time but there were definitely other prospects ranked ahead of him that didn't pan out

Muzzin - Never talked up as a prospect as much as a lot of current prospects in the pipeline are.

Toffoli - Good development. Everyone was high on him and he mostly delivered on the hype.

Martinez - Similar to Muzzin: not a lot of hype.

Pearson - "Overage" draft pick. Kind of surprised with his early production, to be honest.

King - Zero hype

Clifford - No real AHL development. Hyped but didn't meet the hype from an offensive production perspective. Only played three games in 2012 playoffs.

Lewis - Like the guy. Not putting him down when I say he isn't exactly what you are looking for with a 1st round pick.

Nolan - No hype. Flip him with Clifford when talking 2012 v. 2014 and games played.

I might be missing some other players but the point is that out of the three main pieces (11/32/8), only one was a rebuild draft pick. Brown was already here. So Lombardi built this top ranked prospect pool and what happened was a lot of the top ranked guys in it didn't hit or they were traded for known quantities. I say this as a reminder that there will be more than one of these guys everyone is drooling over right now that simply doesn't make it or plays well below expectations. The flip side is that we might have a guy like Jordan Spence become a key cog like Martinez while Helge Grans goes the way of Teubert or something.

So yes: they can be a powerhouse but it is only going to happen if Blake uses these prospects properly as trade assets. Simply sitting on them and expecting a roster of nearly all homegrown talent is unrealistic. It's been said earlier in this thread: need like three of these blue chippers to be blue chippers and then you will also need some surprises from the lower ranked guys to make up for the unexpected busts that will happen closer to the top of the rankings. You'll need that and you'll need to trade potential for tangible results at some point.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The Kings were going to be a powerhouse with the prospects that Lombardi put together during his rebuild. While they did become one for a three year stretch, his biggest contributing prospects were:

Doughty - A no development necessary complete stud from Day 1. He's almost like a UFA signing and not a prospect. He only contributed to the Kings Top 5 prospect ranking once since he graduated immediately.

Voynov - Real nice example of developing a guy over time but there were definitely other prospects ranked ahead of him that didn't pan out

Muzzin - Never talked up as a prospect as much as a lot of current prospects in the pipeline are.

Toffoli - Good development. Everyone was high on him and he mostly delivered on the hype.

Martinez - Similar to Muzzin: not a lot of hype.

Pearson - "Overage" draft pick. Kind of surprised with his early production, to be honest.

King - Zero hype

Clifford - No real AHL development. Hyped but didn't meet the hype from an offensive production perspective. Only played three games in 2012 playoffs.

Lewis - Like the guy. Not putting him down when I say he isn't exactly what you are looking for with a 1st round pick.

Nolan - No hype. Flip him with Clifford when talking 2012 v. 2014 and games played.

I might be missing some other players but the point is that out of the three main pieces (11/32/8), only one was a rebuild draft pick. Brown was already here. So Lombardi built this top ranked prospect pool and what happened was a lot of the top ranked guys in it didn't hit or they were traded for known quantities. I say this as a reminder that there will be more than one of these guys everyone is drooling over right now that simply doesn't make it or plays well below expectations. The flip side is that we might have a guy like Jordan Spence become a key cog like Martinez while Helge Grans goes the way of Teubert or something.

So yes: they can be a powerhouse but it is only going to happen if Blake uses these prospects properly as trade assets. Simply sitting on them and expecting a roster of nearly all homegrown talent is unrealistic. It's been said earlier in this thread: need like three of these blue chippers to be blue chippers and then you will also need some surprises from the lower ranked guys to make up for the unexpected busts that will happen closer to the top of the rankings. You'll need that and you'll need to trade potential for tangible results at some point.

Yeah, and we've already had some of those guys surprise a bit. Example, 7th round Matt Roy, free agents Walker and Lizotte, UDFA Strand. Fagemo could easily be Pearson. It matters where you get value, but the Kings have historically been absolutely excellent at getting value from rounds 3-7--and I guess my point above is that by sheer volume alone it's likely they'll have depth of riches--I'm only 'worried' about the blue chippers turning out because everything else is there (well except toughness but you know.)

 

[johnjm22]

In the Summer of 2006 the Kings had a really nice looking set of prospects:
Johnson
Kopitar
O'Sullivan
Bernier (just drafted)
Lewis (just drafted)
Tukonen

The following summer they had a top 5 pick and landed Thomas Hickey.

Who could've guessed that nearly all these guys except Kopitar would turn out to be busts?

 

[DoktorJeep]

In a cap system, the rules of building a power house are straight forward. You need a vision first and foremost. The most basic version is a team capable of going on multiple deep runs and one or two moves away from contender status any given year.

Second, you need an identity for how you get there. The two most recent models would be Pittsburgh versus Boston, or offense versus defense. Blackhawks and Kings fit that mold respectively. This gives you a strategy with definable goals and objectives along a 5 year’ish horizon.

Third is talent to fit that identity with a couple game breakers thrown in.

You get there by drafting naturals and shoving them into top line jobs. Not all at once, but progressively. If you do it right, you become LA, Chicago, Boston, Pittsburgh and now Tampa. Do it wrong and you may end up as good as Toronto or as bad as Edmonton and Buffalo and Arizona.

So bottom line is that you need strong drafting and development and trades and coaching to be a powerhouse. There is no linear path from the highest rated prospect depth chart to there. The fact that Edmonton squandered their multitude of top picks is the best evidence that having an abundance of prospect depth does not guarantee a good outcome, never mind powerhouse.

For LA, everything really depends on how good the nhl and AHL coaches are at crafting a winning on ice formula. Maybe the John Steven’s years were like the Mark Crawford ones. You play an offensive style, but can’t win enough at the end of the day. So with the offseason moves to beef up the 200 ft player identity, maybe the best way to regain juggernaut status is to become a puck possession team who is the best at suppressing the others team offense.

If you assume you have game breakers in Kopitar, Doughty, Byfield and Petersen, it might all just start to work under this regime as soon as this year.

 

[Gjwrams]

Most importantly, need the blue chips to be blue chips.

As @Raccoon Jesus says here. Byfield, Clarke, Turcotte and Kailyev need to be very good and you need a few homeruns to hit. The thing about the deep pipeline is it will allow us some flexibility to maybe address a future goalie or that Top 2 LHD. I don't stress about Cap too much, because EVERY Team has to deal with it. The best case scenario for cap teams is guys having that breakout year after they have signed the bridge deal as opposed to year 2 of the ELC. That is what is killing Toronto now. All those guys were good early and they are paying them for it at age 22/23 years old. I'd like Vilardi to improve this year to about 18 / 50, get a 3 year bridge for 3 X 5 and then have him blow up to maybe 25 / 70.

I'm rambling a bit, but I hope you get the jest.

 

[Mats26]

Powerhouse.... no. We'll need to replace Kings legends in Kopi, Doughty, Brown, Quick, just to be relevant. We were never a powerhouse with them outside those 2 cup runs, but we were built more for playoffs than regular season. I don't see how will we replace generational talents with a bunch of under developed prospects.

Got a feeling that Kopi will continue to lead this team in scoring for the next 3 possibly more years..sad really. I hope he can lead the way offensively so the young kids can be mentored properly.

Listen to this:
‎West Coast Bias: NHL RADIO REPLAY: Hoven on LA Kings Roster Changes and Rob Blake Report Card on Apple Podcasts

We can't develop offensive players and have most players play productive hockey here. Huge problem that needs to be figured out quickly before it affects the prospects. The key for the Kings now is development.

 

[Kudelski37]

I'm about an hour from a needed vacation so I'm very optimistic about everything. Future powerhouse? Heck yeah! Franchise records about to be rewritten? Affirmative. Fun hockey to watch? Definitely. More Stanley Cups? Oh so many more that the Canadians start to get nervous about their record for most by a franchise. Now I bide my time before getting drunk while packing for my trip.

 

[Fishhead]

I don't think being a powerhouse depends so much on our prospects hitting ceilings and panning out, I think how strong this team is in 3-5 years is much more dependent on who we bring in return when we trade many of them.

We have so many prospects I don't really care if most of them don't become the players we need, I just want them to develop enough to be attractive to other teams when it comes time to making key moves to fill out a contending roster. It's all kind of tied together, of course.

 

[Sol]

If Byfield is 80% as projected, and we get a dynamic goal scoring winger, and Brandt Clarke ends up being a top pairing Dman. Then yes.

Those three things need to happen.

And TMac is a shit coach. We need him gone before anything happens.

 

[BigKing]

In the Summer of 2006 the Kings had a really nice looking set of prospects:
Johnson
Kopitar
O'Sullivan
Bernier (just drafted)
Lewis (just drafted)
Tukonen

The following summer they had a top 5 pick and landed Thomas Hickey.

Who could've guessed that nearly all these guys except Kopitar would turn out to be busts?

This is why I continually throw some cold water on the prospect masturbation going on here. But this is also why I say that Blake is going to start moving some of these prospects eventually since two of the guys on that list were turned into Williams and Carter.

I love the pipeline right now, don't get me wrong, but I'm also far less emotionally invested in them than I was with the prospects from 2000 to 2014. I think that actually going through a proper rebuild and seeing so many guys fall by the wayside or get traded has made me emotionally unavailable...except for Kaliyev. He's my dude and the only guy I'm fanboying about, that goofy bastard.

 

[johnjm22]

This is why I continually throw some cold water on the prospect masturbation going on here. But this is also why I say that Blake is going to start moving some of these prospects eventually since two of the guys on that list were turned into Williams and Carter.

I love the pipeline right now, don't get me wrong, but I'm also far less emotionally invested in them than I was with the prospects from 2000 to 2014. I think that actually going through a proper rebuild and seeing so many guys fall by the wayside or get traded has made me emotionally unavailable...except for Kaliyev. He's my dude and the only guy I'm fanboying about, that goofy bastard.

The crazy thing is, had I told you in 2007 that O'Sullivan, Johnson, Bernier and Hickey were all going to be busts, would you have ever thought that the rebuild would still work out?

But it did.

Things usually play out in ways we don't expect. Most of our current top 10 prospects won't pan out. There's some sure fire prospects we have right now that will bust. But there's also some prospects we have right now that no one is talking about who will probably turn out to be special players for us.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Yes, the Kings are building something special. They’ll be an elite team in 5 years.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Good posts...I think ultimately, (especially with the amount of good talent) that roughly 1/3 end up playing for the Kings...1/3 are traded in deals...1/3 don't really make it. The ones traded in deals, actually
make the team better by acquiring a needed piece. So far, Blake is navigating it well by not giving up any of the prospects for adding some needed pieces: Arvidsson, Danault.

The hard part, is drafting or acquiring / signing top 3 forwards and top 2 defensemen. If Byfield or Clarke do not become one of those, it's not necessarily the Kings fault; or even the players.
And you cannot say "the Kings should have taken Zegras, instead of Turcotte" (if Zegras becomes the better player - 5 or so other teams passed on Zegras)
Part of the reality is, you must have a few players 'over achieve' as to what they were at 18...like a Brayden Point, or Anthony Cirelli, Adam Fox...the Kings really
need a few of those. Like a Pinelli or Madden becoming a 20+ goal, 60+ point guy. Or Kaliyev really busting it, as a 40 goal scorer.

It takes players with character too and that's what DL was good at. Guys like Turcotte, Faber, Anderson are fitting that mold.
A lot will depend on the development and Blake making the right deals, over the next 2 years....no Cernak's for a 20 game, playoff run player. Please.

 

[Stimpythecat]

I would like to make the playoffs first.

 

[Token]

If all it takes is drafting top-2, top-5, top-10 for years …

… Oilers, Sabers, Devils, Rangers would all be the schnitzel by now.

But the reality is quite different.

The team that traded all but three of their first round picks won B2B cups, and it wasn’t even close.

Building a powerhouse franchise is all about the leadership at the helm, not when and how you stock the cupboard.

 

[johnjm22]

If all it takes is drafting top-2, top-5, top-10 for years …

… Oilers, Sabers, Devils, Rangers would all be the schnitzel by now.

But the reality is quite different.

The team that traded all but three of their first round picks won B2B cups, and it wasn’t even close.

Building a powerhouse franchise is all about the leadership at the helm, not when and how you stock the cupboard.

You can have all the leadership you want, but if you don't have high end players coming into your lineup you won't win anything.