Rumor: Friedman - Knies for Rantanen was seriously considered

[Fatass]

The proposed trade from Carolina was Knies plus the 2 1st round picks that went in those deals.

Laughton, maybe possible if you do Minten plus a 2nd or something around Cowan.... but Carlo likely not given the lack of space to accomodate his $3.5m cap hit.

That’s just the Leafs propaganda machine suggesting what the cost was so they don’t look so stupid. . Knies is way better than Stankoven. The add would have been minimal.
Treliving screwed up and it cost Leaf fans a better chance for the Cup.

 

[seanlinden]

Perhaps that was it. I mean I would have done if were the GM, but was it Carolina who chose Logan Stankoven, a 1st-round pick in the 2026, 1st Round 2028 ( both conditional), 3rd-round pick in 2026, 3rd-round pick in 2027. Or was it that the Leafs refused? What choice would you have made? + they got him to sign long term.

Apparently it was Carolina wanting Knies plus 2 1sts... Toronto offering Cowan, Minten, and 2 1sts. We'll never know the true minutae of what conditions might have been in play, and/or other smaller pieces.

Carolina chose Stankoven over Cowan & Minten... and you certainly can't blame them for that given they were playoff bound.... but apparently preferred Knies to Stankoven, which seems reasonable.

If it were me, honesltly, it'd be a decision that I certainly lose sleep over either way... I'm not really sure... it's an extremely close call... and probably comes down to what my assessment of the Marner situation is, how much it costs to resign Rantanen, and what else I might have in play to fix the D / what other pieces am I giving up?

 

[seanlinden]

That’s just the Leafs propaganda machine suggesting what the cost was so they don’t look so stupid. . Knies is way better than Stankoven. The add would have been minimal.
Treliving screwed up and it cost Leaf fans a better chance for the Cup.

I recall reading from multiple sources that it was Knies + 2 1sts... maybe that was it and no 3rd rounders... who knows?

I also believe that a number of the talking heads mentioned that Carolina wasn't overly thrilled with the possibility of having to face Rantanen in the playoffs, so while they preferred Knies, all things being equal woudl likely send him to Dallas.

 

[Fatass]

I recall reading from multiple sources that it was Knies + 2 1sts... maybe that was it and no 3rd rounders... who knows?

I also believe that a number of the talking heads mentioned that Carolina wasn't overly thrilled with the possibility of having to face Rantanen in the playoffs, so while they preferred Knies, all things being equal woudl likely send him to Dallas.

Then the Canes are doubly stupid. Knies is way better than Stankoven. Leafs really missed out. This could have been their Cup with adding Rantanen.

 

[seanlinden]

Then the Canes are doubly stupid. Knies is way better than Stankoven. Leafs really missed out. This could have been their Cup with adding Rantanen.

Nobody here is stupid.

The Canes were smart to say no to Cowan, Minten and 2 1st round picks. While it's a ton of value, nothing helps them immediately. They get immediate help in Stankoven, and are quite well positioned to be buyers with a bunch of draft capital and cap space. If they end up signing Marner for nothing, they look like absolute geniuses.

The Stars were smart to make the deal that they did, getting Rantanen onto a team that had countrymen Roope Hintz and Mikael Granlund as perfect linemates for him.

The Leafs were faced with what should have been a very difficult decision... they made a call to say no.... they didn't end up winning the cup, but if you assume that they wouldn't have won the cup, they're probably in a better position today versus making that deal.

 

[Fatass]

Nobody here is stupid.

The Canes were smart to say no to Cowan, Minten and 2 1st round picks. While it's a ton of value, nothing helps them immediately.

The Stars were smart to make the deal that they did, getting Rantanen onto a team that had countrymen Roope Hintz and Mikael Granlund as perfect linemates for him.

The Leafs were faced with what should have been a very difficult decision... they made a call to say no.... they didn't end up winning the cup, but if you assume that they wouldn't have won the cup, they're probably in a better position today versus making that deal.

Treliving is for sure stupid. The goal is to win the Cup, especially when so close and two key guys are coming UFAs. Adding Rantanen to that Leafs club and their chances at the Cup greatly increase. Now the Leafs have no Rantanen, no Marner, and no Cup. And they’re not going to f to be as good next year and years to come.
I feel bad for Leafs fans. They should have had a parade this summer.,

 

[seanlinden]

Treliving is for sure stupid. The goal is to win the Cup, especially when so close and two key guys are coming UFAs. Adding Rantanen to that Leafs club and their chances at the Cup greatly increase. Now the Leafs have no Rantanen, no Marner, and no Cup. And they’re not going to f to be as good next year and years to come.
I feel bad for Leafs fans. They should have had a parade this summer.,

While the goal is to win the cup, that doesn't mean you completely obliterate your future for a 2% increase in chance of winning the cup.

Everything is a balancing act.

 

[NYRnine94]

Treliving is for sure stupid. The goal is to win the Cup, especially when so close and two key guys are coming UFAs. Adding Rantanen to that Leafs club and their chances at the Cup greatly increase. Now the Leafs have no Rantanen, no Marner, and no Cup. And they’re not going to f to be as good next year and years to come.
I feel bad for Leafs fans. They should have had a parade this summer.,

Leafs adding Rantanen but losing Knies isn't a good deal. Rantanen wasn't the difference between winning or losing a cup for Toronto.

 

[Fatass]

While the goal is to win the cup, that doesn't mean you completely obliterate your future for a 2% increase in chance of winning the cup.

Everything is a balancing act.

2%? Have you seen what Rantanen has done for Dallas? Plus he would have singed with TO too and there would be several years of having him.
Will Knies ever be as good as Rantanen? That’s the whole point of this.

 

[Fatass]

Leafs adding Rantanen but losing Knies isn't a good deal. Rantanen wasn't the difference between winning or losing a cup for Toronto.

You honestly believe Knies is a better player than Rantanen?

 

[seanlinden]

2%? Have you seen what Rantanen has done for Dallas? Plus he would have singed with TO too and there would be several years of having him.
Will Knies ever be as good as Rantanen? That’s the whole point of this.

Yes I have... that doesn't mean he'd do the same in Toronto.

Will Knies ever be as good as Rantanen? I'll say almost certianly not... but when building a team, in a cap environment, it's not always about getting the best player. That's the problem mentality the Leafs have had for the last 7 years hanging onto those 4.... you've gotta build a team, and Knies might cost you $6m less than Rantanen over a key contention window.

Those draft picks also aren't "nothing". Those draft picks were instrumental in getting you a 28 year old big, top 4, right shot defenceman with 2 full years left on his deal at $3.5m, and a 3/4 centre with an extra year at $1.5m.

Don't get me wrong, if they could have done Marner for Rantanen, especially with the knowledge that Rantanen is signing and Marner not, obviously you do it.... but giving up a key player like Knies, plus a bunch of draft capital, to again go back to being super top-heavy, I'm not so sure.

 

[NYRnine94]

You honestly believe Knies is a better player than Rantanen?

Well Knies makes a lot less than Rantanen and he is younger. Knies plays well for Toronto and fits in well there, would Rantanen fit in? Rantanen is the better player but the salary cap is a thing. You trade Knies, fail in the playoffs and lose Rantanen, then what?

 

[Fatass]

Yes I have... that doesn't mean he'd do the same in Toronto.

Will Knies ever be as good as Rantanen? I'll say almost certianly not... but when building a team, in a cap environment, it's not always about getting the best player. That's the problem mentality the Leafs have had for the last 7 years hanging onto those 4.... you've gotta build a team, and Knies might cost you $6m less than Rantanen over a key contention window.

Those draft picks also aren't "nothing". Those draft picks were instrumental in getting you a 28 year old big, top 4, right shot defenceman with 2 full years left on his deal at $3.5m, and a 3/4 centre with an extra year at $1.5m

The Leafs aren’t “building” though. They are built and trying to win now. It’s a huge mistake not getting Rantanen.

 

[NYRnine94]

The Leafs aren’t “building” though. They are built and trying to win now. It’s a huge mistake not getting Rantanen.

Do you think Toronto would have won the cup with Rantanen?

 

[Fatass]

Well Knies makes a lot less than Rantanen and he is younger. Knies plays well for Toronto and fits in well there, would Rantanen fit in? Rantanen is the better player but the salary cap is a thing. You trade Knies, fail in the playoffs and lose Rantanen, then what?

Who friggin’ cares if there is a parade down York?

 

[jaric1862]

I'm a bit confused why this is suddenly being treated like new information. This was reported the week after the trade deadline on TSN. Are we all just doing revisionist history now?

 

[seanlinden]

The Leafs aren’t “building” though. They are built and trying to win now. It’s a huge mistake not getting Rantanen.

Yes they are, they, like all 32 teams, will be "building for next year" when the playoffs are over.

Getting Rantanen at the cost of Knies, Carlo, and likely Laughton doesn't mean automatic cup for Toronto. Heck, they'd probably be in the 3rd round had the scored on any of the breakaways they had in OT in game 3, or maybe in the 1st period of game 7.

Ultimately, today, they're likely in a better spot with Knies, Carlo, Laughton and cap space then they would have been with Rantanen at ~$13m.

 

[Fatass]

Do you think Toronto would have won the cup with Rantanen?

They definitely get past Florida. The Canes aren’t that good. IMO they get to the Final vs the Oilers. Likely win but who knows with McDavid?
The point is the Leafs aren’t losing Marner. They are getting a lot worse with him gone. But having Rantanen they’re still excellent.
But this year they’d have all their top guys, and Rantanen. How is that not good?

 

[NYRnine94]

They definitely get past Florida. The Canes aren’t that good. IMO they get to the Final vs the Oilers. Likely win but who knows with McDavid?
The point is the Leafs aren’t losing Marner. They are getting a lot worse with him gone. But having Rantanen they’re still excellent.
But this year they’d have all their top guys, and Rantanen. How is that not good?

Every single thing you just said is an opinion. They definitely get past Florida? Florida mopped the floor with them lmao Rantanen wasn't changing that. Rantanen isn't making their top guys perform all of a sudden.

Canes aren't that good? They went further than Toronto did so if they aren't that good, what does that make Toronto?

 

[seanlinden]

They definitely get past Florida. The Canes aren’t that good. IMO they get to the Final vs the Oilers. Likely win but who knows with McDavid?
The point is the Leafs aren’t losing Marner. They are getting a lot worse with him gone. But having Rantanen they’re still excellent.
But this year they’d have all their top guys, and Rantanen. How is that not good?

Not neccessarily. Nothing is definite in the playoffs, and they were likely one of multiple shots away from getting past Florida anyways.

Maybe their D gets bullied more by the Panthers, and they don't go up 2-0. Maybe they struggle even more maintaining offensive zone production.... maybe Rantanen doesn't fit as well in Toronto as he does Dallas.

If they had Rantanen, in your world, they'd be missing Knies.... he is one of toronto's "top guys".

 

[Fatass]

Every single thing you just said is an opinion. They definitely get past Florida? Florida mopped the floor with them lmao Rantanen wasn't changing that. Rantanen isn't making their top guys perform all of a sudden.

Canes aren't that good? They went further than Toronto did so if they aren't that good, what does that make Toronto?

Of course it’s opinion! Your views are opinion too.
Basically it comes down to our opinion of who is the better player: Knies or Rantanen? Imo Rantanen is better.

 

[KingsHockey24]

We'll give you Trevor Moore for Knies instead.

 

[NYRnine94]

Of course it’s opinion! Your views are opinion too.
Basically it comes down to our opinion of who is the better player: Knies or Rantanen? Imo Rantanen is better.

Rantanen is better than Knies, BUT it goes beyond that. It's Knies and salary cap for other players and depth. Plus, if Knies becomes a 30-35 goal 60+ point guy who is cheap and young, is that so much worse than Rantanen who costs probably double the price?

 

[seanlinden]

Of course it’s opinion! Your views are opinion too.
Basically it comes down to our opinion of who is the better player: Knies or Rantanen? Imo Rantanen is better.

Not a single person in this thread will argue that Knies is a better player than Rantanen.

You seem to be wilfully ignoring that in the world of professional sports, it is a far more nuanced question than that.

Knies made $900k to Rantanen's $4.6m.
Knies will make between $5 and $8m whereas Rantanen would have made between $12 and $14m.
There are additional draft picks which would have gone to Carolina, which resulted in the Leafs being able to obtain Laughton and Carlo.

The problem with your approach.. its the same reason why the Leafs never traded Marner, Nylander or Matthews when they could have. The chances of a 1-for-1 deal were miniscule; and they were unwilling to downgrade on the specific player for additional outside flexibility. That in turn was likely their downfall.

Look at Florida...they don't beat you because of what Alexander Barkov does.... or even Matthew Tkachuk who was honestly not much of a factor in the series. They beat you because there are no weaknesses.

 

[Fatass]

Rantanen is better than Knies, BUT it goes beyond that. It's Knies and salary cap for other players and depth. Plus, if Knies becomes a 30-35 goal 60+ point guy who is cheap and young, is that so much worse than Rantanen who costs probably double the price?

Sure. But we are talking about this playoffs; right now. Marner is gone. Tavares might be gone too. The Leags best chance was right now and Treliving screwed that up.,