Rumor: Friedman - Knies for Rantanen was seriously considered

[Jumptheshark]

According to 31 thoughts Rantanen for Knies was close to happening. He didn’t say Carolina or Colorado.

But by his mentioning of it happening “earlier” I’m guessing it was Colorado.

That would have been insane

There would have to have been more coming from the Leafs.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Rantanen re-signing in Toronto just seems unlikely.

We already know he would have signed the same deal he signed in Dallas, that came out later.

 

[Fatass]

Treliving is an idiot for not making that deal. Leafs are in the Conference Final with Rantanen. Thank you Treliving!!!!

 

[Schennanigans]

If he would’ve signed in Toronto I think that’s a deal you have to make. Trev fumbled that if that’s the case.

 

[seanlinden]

It must have been Knies ++

This isn't news...

The deal offered by Toronto was apparently Cowan, Minten, and the 2 1st round picks they gave up for Laughton & Carlo. Carolina said no.

The deal offered by Carolina was apparently Knies and the 2 1st round picks, and perhaps smaller pieces. That was turned down by Toronto.

Certainly not outlandish to think that the Canes would have preferred Knies to Stankoven; and obviously, the deal proposed by the Canes should absolutely have been considered by Toronto.

Ultimately, should they have made that deal? It's a tough call.

Carlo has been a very solid addition to the blueline that would not have been possible if a Rantanen deal happened. Knies is no Rantanen, but was a pretty important contributor.

It also probably should have come down to what Marner's position was.... if negotiating was at all a consideration.... and what Rantanen wanted from a $ standpoint to sign here.

 

[seanlinden]

If he would’ve signed in Toronto I think that’s a deal you have to make. Trev fumbled that if that’s the case.

Given that Toronto was apparently on "Mikko's list", I beleive he would have signed here.

The question is -- for how much. He wasn't willing to sign in Colorado for $12m. Much has been reported in the media about the tax advantages in Dallas. If he wanted $13.5m to sign here, I'm not so sure that makes sense. Ultimately, I'm sure it was a really "close call" as to what the right move was.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Treliving is an idiot for not making that deal. Leafs are in the Conference Final with Rantanen. Thank you Treliving!!!!

Sure, anything can happen when the games are played in the imagination.

 

[Fatass]

Sure, anything can happen when the games are played in the imagination.

Does Dallas get by the Avs without Rantsnen? The guy has been the best player in the playoffs. He’s big, skilled, and tough. He’s exactly what the Leafs were missing vs Florida. Of course he makes the difference in that series.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Does Dallas get by the Avs without Rantsnen? The guy has been the best player in the playoffs. He’s big, skilled, and tough. He’s exactly what the Leafs were missing vs Florida. Of course he makes the difference in that series.

I don't think so as Rantenen production was the difference against the Avalanche. I suppose if we could cut and paste that production on to the Leafs, he would be. Or perhaps just cut the game 7 performance against the AVs to game 7 against Florida or I suppose other imaginary possibilities.

 

[Schennanigans]

Given that Toronto was apparently on "Mikko's list", I beleive he would have signed here.

The question is -- for how much. He wasn't willing to sign in Colorado for $12m. Much has been reported in the media about the tax advantages in Dallas. If he wanted $13.5m to sign here, I'm not so sure that makes sense. Ultimately, I'm sure it was a really "close call" as to what the right move was.

Knies and Rant are not the same players in terms of what it will cost to sign. Rant likely costs us 4-5M more per year than Knies would. I’m sure that was part of the decision process to not go through with it.

 

[BB79]

Rantanen dodged a bullet there!

 

[Fatass]

I don't think so as Rantenen production was the difference against the Avalanche. I suppose if we could cut and paste that production on to the Leafs, he would be. Or perhaps just cut the game 7 performance against the AVs to game 7 against Florida or I suppose other imaginary possibilities.

Of course we will never know. But clearly Rantanen is a much better player than Knies and is having a difference maker playoffs.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Of course we will never know. But clearly Rantanen is a much better player than Knies and is having a difference maker playoffs.

Oh yes, he is a much better player than Knies is currently.

 

[Fatass]

Knies and Rant are not the same players in terms of what it will cost to sign. Rant likely costs us 4-5M more per year than Knies would. I’m sure that was part of the decision process to not go through with it.

Which was a stupid reason to not make the trade. TO should have gone all in. Look at the result! Lost in game seven to the Cup holders who are now crushing the Canes.

 

[Schennanigans]

Which was a stupid reason to not make the trade. TO should have gone all in. Look at the result! Lost in game seven to the Cup holders who are now crushing the Canes.

You never know if he’d be a fit in Toronto. He was complete ass in Carolina. Same could’ve happened here.

 

[Jerzey Devil]

it was reported that he was fine extending in Toronto, that's what the Marner trade was based on

It was pretty well said it was either Dallas or Toronto in the end

It’s pretty clear he’s talking about the trade from Dallas, because that’s when all the Toronto rumours came out

Also it he didn’t make it seem like Knies for Rantanen was close, if Toronto was willing he’d be in Toronto and not in Dallas

The most realistic offers that there were Dallas had the better package

We already know he would have signed the same deal he signed in Dallas, that came out later.

Damn my bad. The anger towards Marner for blocking the trade makes a little more sense now even if it’s not that much.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Which was a stupid reason to not make the trade. TO should have gone all in. Look at the result! Lost in game seven to the Cup holders who are now crushing the Canes.

If they could have made a Knies for Rantenan trade I think they would have. If it were knies+Cowan + 2026 1st + -not without an extension in place.

 

[seanlinden]

Which was a stupid reason to not make the trade. TO should have gone all in. Look at the result! Lost in game seven to the Cup holders who are now crushing the Canes.

Should they have?

Lets say that acquisiton price was Knies plus the 2 x 1st round picks... and nothing else... and that Rantanen wanted 8x13 to sign here.

Now you're going into next season with $15m of cap space. Your right side looks great with Mikko Rantanen and William Nylander. You've got Matthews, Domi, Kampf and Minten up the middle. You've got McMann and Jarnkrok on the left side. Sure, maybe you bring back Tavares at $6.5m, but you're... but that still leaves you with less than $9m to acquire a pair of top 6 forwards and top 4 right shot defenceman.

As others have mentioned, Rantanen has been a perfect fit in Dallas... that may not have been the case in Toronto and then it would have looked really stupid.

 

[Fatass]

You never know if he’d be a fit in Toronto. He was complete ass in Carolina. Same could’ve happened here.

True. But he’s looking pretty damned good in Dallas. The Leafs were really REALLY close. Imo that’s the time to push all the chips in and try for the big win. Not too sure what waiting accomplished?

 

[seanlinden]

If they could have made a Knies for Rantenan trade I think they would have. If it were knies+Cowan + 2026 1st + -not without an extension in place.

Apparently the deal (from Carolina's POV) was Knies + the first round picks, and perhaps a smaller piece or two.

 

[Fatass]

Should they have?

Lets say that acquisiton price was Knies plus the 2 x 1st round picks... and nothing else... and that Rantanen wanted 8x13 to sign here.

Now you're going into next season with $15m of cap space. Your right side looks great with Mikko Rantanen and William Nylander. You've got Matthews, Domi, Kampf and Minten up the middle. You've got McMann and Jarnkrok on the left side. Sure, maybe you bring back Tavares at $6.5m, but you're... but that still leaves you with less than $9m to acquire a pair of top 6 forwards and top 4 right shot defenceman.

As others have mentioned, Rantanen has been a perfect fit in Dallas... that may not have been the case in Toronto and then it would have looked really stupid.

What’s the Cup worth? Where are the Leafs now with Marner leaving? Haven’t won since ‘67. Great core that’s very close now. Got to go all in now.

 

[seanlinden]

What’s the Cup worth? Where are the Leafs now with Marner leaving? Haven’t won since ‘67. Great core that’s very close now. Got to go all in now.

Acquiring Mikko Rantanen, at the cost of Matthew Knies, Brandon Carlo, and Scott Laughton; wasn't and isn't a guarantee of the cup.

As for where we're at with Marner leaving... that "problem" was created by not trading him before his NMC kicked in... but at the end of the day, I don't think it's completely doom & gloom.

Knies has 5 full seasons of RFA control here... whereas most guys coming off ELCs only have 4. If the Leafs were competent negotiators, they should be able to get him on a 6 year deal in the inthe low 7s. They should also be able to get him on a 4-year deal in the low 6s, and be able to do another negotiation with him as an RFA. Theoretically, you can bring Tavares back at $6.5m, maybe less. Assume $13m for the pair.

This is a team that won the division with Matthews battling injuries all year. Yes, Marner's a big loss, but their D is solid. Their goaltending is solid. They'll have about $11m to resign Steven Lorentz, and add likely 2 top 9 forwards to replace Marner & Pacioretty.

Slightly more cap space can be created if needed by moving out Kampf and/or Jarnkrok (who will both have positive, albeit negligble value). Probably shouldn't sleep on Easton Cowan either, who for the 2nd year in a row leads the OHL playoffs in points.

Call me crazy, but he might not look terrible on the wing of Auston Matthews and/or John Tavares at some points next year.

Knies-Matthews-Domi
Somebody-Somebody-Nylander
McMann-Tavares-Cowan
Lorentz-Laughton-Jarnkrok

 

[Leaf Fans]

Apparently the deal (from Carolina's POV) was Knies + the first round picks, and perhaps a smaller piece or two.

Perhaps that was it. I mean I would have done if were the GM, but was it Carolina who chose Logan Stankoven, a 1st-round pick in the 2026, 1st Round 2028 ( both conditional), 3rd-round pick in 2026, 3rd-round pick in 2027. Or was it that the Leafs refused? What choice would you have made? + they got him to sign long term.

 

[Fatass]

Acquiring Mikko Rantanen, at the cost of Matthew Knies, Brandon Carlo, and Scott Laughton; wasn't and isn't a guarantee of the cup.

No it’s not. But Rantanen is clearly proving that Dallas did a very smart thing getting him.
Why wouldn’t the Leafs still get Carlo and Laughton if they got Rantanen?

 

[seanlinden]

No it’s not. But Rantanen is clearly proving that Dallas did a very smart thing getting him.
Why wouldn’t the Leafs still get Carlo and Laughton if they got Rantanen?

The proposed trade from Carolina was Knies plus the 2 1st round picks that went in those deals.

Laughton, maybe possible if you do Minten plus a 2nd or something around Cowan.... but Carlo likely not given the lack of space to accomodate his $3.5m cap hit.