GDT: Free agency madness, brought to you by the letter G

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[Korpse]

I think it’s a reasonable bet at this point that they were present and involved. Given that, there is literally no upside to doing anything other than following their lawyers‘ advice, which would certainly be to remain quiet. On the evidence as I understand it right now, it seems unlikely that sweeping charges will follow, and even less likely that sweeping convictions would result. I think the harder question will be what to do about 8 men behaving cruelly and dishonourably, both as individuals and as representatives of the game and the team. If their actions weren’t criminal, but “merely“ exploitative and indifferent, are there consequences? Either way, this will likely haunt them for some time. Is that fair? I think it’s hard to say right now.

It’s not a reasonable bet at all. You make the assumption that they will not make a statement at all. It’s definitely a possibility that they were involved but at the same time there’s a possibility there will be more statements in the coming days. It would be nice for the names to be out there but assuming guilt based on what has been said in a statement is flimsy at best. There’s been a number of players the public have been ready to point the finger at who have come out with statements in the last few days.

 

[Bevans]

I'm not sure why you're taking this as my proposal. All I'm saying is you are wrong that the proposal added money to the system. Time to take the loss and move on instead of attacking me for pointing out your error.

As already mentioned, the issues lie elsewhere, GCK pointed out a few already. But any attempt to implement this type of system though wouldn't be Canadian teams only, that was just an example for simplicity sake, an actual implementation would likely find a mean to which teams are brought towards, thus resulting in roughly half the teams being winners and the other half being losers in the change. This still presents problems in trying to get people to agree to the change, no doubt there.

What are you even talking about.

I will pass on the L and I would encourage you to consider the difference between collective bargaining and making up hair brain schemes on hfboards. I would also encourage you to reconsider your cavalier definition of "simplicity"

 

[Micklebot]

What are you even talking about.

I will pass on the L and I would encourage you to consider the difference between collective bargaining and making up hair brain schemes on hfboards. I would also encourage you to reconsider your cavalier definition of "simplicity"

You made a claim. It was wrong, I pointed it out and used examples to show how the proposal actually worked. Know that you were wrong and learn to live with it,

 

[Bevans]

You made a claim. It was wrong, I pointed it out and used examples to show how the proposal actually worked. Know that you were wrong and learn to live with it,

Re read your proposal. If you can't understand the implications of what you wrote, how am I supposed to read your mind on what you really wanted to say.

There are 3 possibilities:

Make pie bigger- veto by owner
Make pie smaller- veto by player
Redistribute pie from rich to poor- rich owners and players veto.

The rest of the mumbo jumbo is pure obfuscation.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

They opened their investigation for review yesterday

Nothing will change with regards to the outcome of course, unless there was some serious negligence on their part

Yeah seems like a PR move because this has the chance (if it already hasn’t) to become a very high profile thing.

We just don't know. We may never know.

And I would be cautious stating that any of the following is anything more than pure speculation.


The outcome of the WJ situation could go a lot of different directions. The following could apply to either player.

1) They had no involvement (never in the room) and have stayed silent purely to prevent helping the media/public narrow down the identities of those involved. You can say "well, so and so made a statement, why wouldn't they", but they may have there own reasons or just disagree with how others players handled it. If this applies to either player, it's a blip on their record in 6 months.

2) They were in the room but not involved, felt peer pressured to be there, were not involved in the direct activities, and cooperated fully with police, and have been since instructed to stay silent due to settlement agreement with HC. Not a great look, would have some reputation recovery to do, but I don't see it taking them off the ice.

3) Were involved in legal activities, nothing occurred that is deemed to cross legal lines after the additional reviews. IF all the info comes out, and IF this is the case, then yes, it could take them off the ice, or at least off the sens. "But there was no crime?" Doesn't matter. The code of conduct clauses in there contracts have nothing to do with illegality. It's there so that teams can end association with a player that say/does things that the team as a private business does not want to be associated with. This could result in league punishment, or it could be left up to individual teams to decide their tolerance for the bad press in their market (ex: Deshaun Watson).

4) Were involved in illegal activities. This one should speak for itself.

5) A scenario we are not aware of. There are infinite other potential possibilities as to what exactly happened and what the outcomes will be. These are real people involved and it's a very serious matter.

Most importantly, I hope whatever justice is warranted is what occurs for the sake of the victim.

I don’t think there were people in the room not partaking ? At least not from what I’ve read?

 

[Slippy]

Batherson was at the Gala/Golf tournament in question. again hopefully not involved, but also may not be releasing a statement to avoid implicating other that were involved.

Regardless I will be disappointed if either him or Formenton were involved. Hopefully they weren't but whoever- was involved needs to be held accountable.

We should all be careful in implicating anyone without proper information.

 

[Micklebot]

Re read your proposal. If you can't understand the implications of what you wrote, how am I supposed to read your mind on what you really wanted to say.

There are 3 possibilities:

Make pie bigger- veto by owner
Make pie smaller- veto by player
Redistribute pie from rich to poor- rich owners and players veto.

The rest of the mumbo jumbo is pure obfuscation.

The mumbo jumbo is you trying to save face. You were and are wrong that the proposal added money to the system, money in the system is capped by revenue, which is locked at a 50/50 split between players and owners, that's all. Whether any new proposal would be vetoed by players or owners is a separate matter, not relevant to what I posted.

Hope you can learn to live with it, but that's just how it is.

 

[Wondercarrot]

Lawyers would tell you not to say anything until you are forced to. There is what is prudent to do in terms of public opinion and what is prudent in terms of the law. They should not be vilified for listening to their lawyers.


It’s famous for a reason. Doesn’t stop people from racing to the gallows though.

Those other guys have terrible 4th rate lawyers I suppose?
I mean some of them share lawyers/agents but I’m to believe the 7 guys who have NOT come out are the ones with good lawyers?
They aren’t putting out statements because they know there is potential jeopardy.

 

[Bevans]

The mumbo jumbo is you trying to save face. You were and are wrong that the proposal added money to the system, money in the system is capped by revenue, which is locked at a 50/50 split between players and owners, that's all. Whether any new proposal would be vetoed by players or owners is a separate matter, not relevant to what I posted.

Hope you can learn to live with it, but that's just how it is.

Just re read. Maybe get another moderator to give you a hand.

 

[kellmuff96]

feels like unless the criminal investigation finds something before that they didnt, the names wont ever come out?

 

[SensFactor]

Really interesting to see what the Sens will do with Formenton and Batherson moving forward if they had involvement. There are a lot of eyes on this investigation and I think there are going to be some stiff repercussions

 

[Micklebot]

Just re read. Maybe get another moderator to give you a hand.

Oh, nice, starting with the personal attacks now? Not a great look, or a particularly wise one.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Those other guys have terrible 4th rate lawyers I suppose?
I mean some of them share lawyers/agents but I’m to believe the 7 guys who have NOT come out are the ones with good lawyers?
They aren’t putting out statements because they know there is potential jeopardy.

Putting out a public statement via social media will have absolutely zero impact on whether players are investigated and face potential consequences.

It's not like investigators from law enforcement, or the NHL, will say, "Oh... well he posted that screenshot on Insta saying he didn't do anything. Guess there's no need to interview him. Scratch him off the list."

Besides, the statements are all different. Some say they weren't at the event at all. Some say they were at the event but weren't involved in the incident. Some say they didn't participate in any wrongdoing. Outside of trying to satisfy the amateur Twitter sleuths who've gotten out of control, the statements mean nothing.

Nobody has any of the facts. Investigations will take place to uncover those facts. Maybe the findings will be released publicly, maybe they won't. But fans aren't entitled to know anything, really.

 

[Wondercarrot]

Wouldn't be surprised if Formenton or Bath are John Doe 1 at this point

Just a hunch as to why they would remain quiet

Party is in London, Formenton is the London Knights guy, he knows the town…
Man I’m just going to hold my breath here.

Batherson just doesnt/didn’t seem like the guy to be involved so that would somehow be extra disappointing. Generally assume the worst with hockey players but I just though he was a bit different. Sure hope so….fingers crossed but it’s not looking good obviously.

 

[Bevans]

Oh, nice, starting with the personal attacks now? Not a great look, or a particularly wise one.

Pulling rank I see. I'm making friends in high high places

 

[senswon]

Putting out a public statement via social media will have absolutely zero impact on whether players are investigated and face potential consequences.

It's not like investigators from law enforcement, or the NHL, will say, "Oh... well he posted that screenshot on Insta saying he didn't do anything. Guess there's no need to interview him. Scratch him off the list."

Besides, the statements are all different. Some say they weren't at the event at all. Some say they were at the event but weren't involved in the incident. Some say they didn't participate in any wrongdoing. Outside of trying to satisfy the amateur Twitter sleuths who've gotten out of control, the statements mean nothing.

Nobody has any of the facts. Investigations will take place to uncover those facts. Maybe the findings will be released publicly, maybe they won't. But fans aren't entitled to know anything, really.

Was Batherson playing in the CHL at the time? My memory is foggy. I believe the official statement was that the 7 john doe's were all chl players at the time...

 

[BondraTime]

Was Batherson playing in the Chl at the time? My memory is foggy. I believe the official statement was that the 7 john doe's were all chl players at the time...

Yes

 

[Wondercarrot]

Putting out a public statement via social media will have absolutely zero impact on whether players are investigated and face potential consequences.

It's not like investigators from law enforcement, or the NHL, will say, "Oh... well he posted that screenshot on Insta saying he didn't do anything. Guess there's no need to interview him. Scratch him off the list."

Besides, the statements are all different. Some say they weren't at the event at all. Some say they were at the event but weren't involved in the incident. Some say they didn't participate in any wrongdoing. Outside of trying to satisfy the amateur Twitter sleuths who've gotten out of control, the statements mean nothing.

Nobody has any of the facts. Investigations will take place to uncover those facts. Maybe the findings will be released publicly, maybe they won't. But fans aren't entitled to know anything, really.

We aren’t entitled to know, and no the statements themselves aren’t absolving them of anything.
HOWEVER since humans are not robots and develop things called emotions - players are human too and regardless of outcome the best option for someone who knows they had nothing to do with anything is to put out a statement making it clear they want everyone to know they had nothing to do with it.
I hear a lot of vitriol riding towards Batherson and Formenton but none for Mete, Makar or others who put out statements, why do you think that is?

Let me ask you this - if you were accused of being part of a gang rape and you knew you had nothing to do with it, would you sit quietly in your basement waiting for it to pass or would you be screaming from the top of your lawyers lungs that you are not a rapist?
You just have a pretty cool, calm, unflappable demeanour if you are good with being labelled a rapist in the court of public opinion when you could at least defend yourself, then also have it proven.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

We aren’t entitled to know, and no the statements themselves aren’t absolving them of anything.
HOWEVER since humans are not robots and develop things called emotions - players are human too and regardless of outcome the best option for someone who knows they had nothing to do with anything is to put out a statement making it clear they want everyone to know they had nothing to do with it.
I hear a lot of vitriol riding towards Batherson and Formenton but none for Mete, Makar or others who put out statements, why do you think that is?

Let me ask you this - if you were accused of being part of a gang rape and you knew you had nothing to do with it, would you sit quietly in your basement waiting for it to pass or would you be screaming from the top of your lawyers lungs that you are not a rapist?
You just have a pretty cool, calm, unflappable demeanour if you are good with being labelled a rapist in the court of public opinion when you could at least defend yourself, then also have it proven.

He also disabled his IG comments like 24 hours ago after his comment section was spammed with rape accusations. To still remain silent as an innocent person since then…would really be something.

He doesn’t owe anyone anything sure, but people don’t owe him the benefit of the doubt either. That’s just how it works.

 

[Micklebot]

Pulling rank I see. I'm making friends in high high places

You brought my status as a mod into this because you don't have facts on your side so you started banging on the table instead. Maybe take the advice I gave early on, take the loss and move on.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Let me ask you this - if you were accused of being part of a gang rape and you knew you had nothing to do with it, would you sit quietly in your basement waiting for it to pass or would you be screaming from the top of your lawyers lungs that you are not a rapist?
You just have a pretty cool, calm, unflappable demeanour if you are good with being labelled a rapist in the court of public opinion when you could at least defend yourself, then also have it proven.

The first thing I would do is hire a lawyer and follow their directions to a T.

And again, outside of the statements where someone has said they weren't in town for the event, the others mean nothing. "I wasn't involved in the allegations" or "I didn't participate in any wrongdoing" could be interpreted in many different ways, and don't absolve anyone of anything. Hell, if the event took place as alleged, and someone is capable of taking part in a gang sexual assault, they're probably capable of lying in a statement.

That's why the only reasonable thing to do is wait for the investigations to take place.

Instant reaction on Twitter means nothing. If it can be proven that a crime was committed, these players will be identified and face consequences. If it can't, they won't.

 

[Wondercarrot]

The first thing I would do is hire a lawyer and follow their directions to a T.

And again, outside of the statements where someone has said they weren't in town for the event, the others mean nothing. "I wasn't involved in the allegations" or "I didn't participate in any wrongdoing" could be interpreted in many different ways, and don't absolve anyone of anything. Hell, if the event took place as alleged, and someone is capable of taking part in a gang sexual assault, they're probably capable of lying in a statement.

That's why the only reasonable thing to do is wait for the investigations to take place.

Instant reaction on Twitter means nothing. If it can be proven that a crime was committed, these players will be identified and face consequences. If it can't, they won't.

You know people aren’t robots right? lol
Also do you feel that the 13 or whatever players lawyers/agents who put out statements are substandard lawyers in comparison to the 7 who have not?
What about the players who share the same lawyer/agent where one gets a statement but the other does not? Are they both following the lawyer to a T, if so why the different approaches?

 

[Wondercarrot]

I would say this, Hockey Canada has failed the players not involved in spectacular fashion and if I were them I’d sue the f*** out of hockey Canada for dragging my name through the mud due to their coverup.

 

[DaveMatthew]

You know people aren’t robots right? lol
Also do feel that the 13 players lawyers who put out statements are substandard lawyers in comparison to the 7 who have not?

Every lawyer is different and will take a different approach. This thirst for "statements" is so bizarre. Statements won't change the course, or outcome, of the investigation. Players will either be implicated, identified and face consequences, or be cleared.

The players involved in this situation need to be forthcoming with investigators. Not with Twitter.

And yes, you're free to make your own assumptions and conclusions at any point in time. Go for it. But your opinions and conclusions don't matter. They won't impact whether any of these players face criminal or professional consequences.