Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[PlayOn]

I wonder if we’re keeping him there because we want to move him. A centre is generally more valuable than a winger.

I was wondering about this too.

But I still think it’s weird. In a world where Norris gets placed on wing and really goes off, you would think they’d reconsider moving him. But maybe they are set on it either way so they are keeping him at C. Realistically though even if he was a better winger and you still moved him, any improvement in performance would likely help his trade value. At that point a team can acquire him knowing he has the versatility to play both positions.

So yeah I don’t get it. I think it’s more that Green probably thinks it makes us too shallow on the third and fourth lines.

 

[Samboni]

Sleepy Steve

Stand-pat Steve

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

We really should try Norris on the wing in the top 6 to see if we have a scoring winger

I don't disagree, but I think that this is bigger than his fit on the team. I think that it is the liability of the contract. Why they are doing it now instead of the offseason? My only guess could be that they determined that depth is an issue, and they don't want the risk of Norris suffering another major injury down the stretch or in the playoffs when games get heavier.

We're not a Melnyk-type budget team, but it has already been pointed out by people like Friedman that the rising cap and low Canadian dollar will squeeze many teams. I think a big part of his name being out there has to be that the contract being on the book presents a tremendous risk to them.

I do get the impression that Staios is motivated to turn over as much of the roster as possible, save for the 3-4 stars we will build around. For a roster with as little cap flexibility as ours had last season, he turned over a significant amount of roster spots. They added Gaudette, Gregor, Amadio, Perron, Cousins, Jensen, Ullmark. That is pretty big turnover for one season.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

With the top line having such an obvious hole, it is kind of odd they haven't at least tried to get more creative with something like Norris on the wing. I've also asked for that a few times this year.

I think whether directly or indirectly, if they pull of the Norris trade as they intend to they will bring back someone who is supposed to be a top 6 scorer. Either directly in the trade, or using cap and some of the assets from the trade.

They have apparently been tied to Boeser. So it makes me wonder if they are trying to do something around Norris (maybe with retention) for Boeser (with retention)+Soucy, and Vancouver is reticent because they think maybe they can get big assets for Boeser as a rental, or they are afraid of the injury history of Norris. I think Boeser would be a rental, but it's like Boeser and Norris is a lateral move, but they also add the #5D that they badly need since Matinpalo and Kleven clearly aren't earmarked for that role.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I don't disagree, but I think that this is bigger than his fit on the team. I think that it is the liability of the contract. Why they are doing it now instead of the offseason? My only guess could be that they determined that depth is an issue, and they don't want the risk of Norris suffering another major injury down the stretch or in the playoffs when games get heavier.

We're not a Melnyk-type budget team, but it has already been pointed out by people like Friedman that the rising cap and low Canadian dollar will squeeze many teams. I think a big part of his name being out there has to be that the contract being on the book presents a tremendous risk to them.

I do get the impression that Staios is motivated to turn over as much of the roster as possible, save for the 3-4 stars we will build around. For a roster with as little cap flexibility as ours had last season, he turned over a significant amount of roster spots. They added Gaudette, Gregor, Amadio, Perron, Cousins, Jensen, Ullmark. That is pretty big turnover for one season.

I agree the contract is the main motivation. Assuming they can move it and get a good middle 6 player back not an aged out vet or a slow player with good instincts and make use of the remaining gain in cap space to fill in with improvements .. all is good.

 

[Big Muddy]

Not sure that two $4 m players equals one good $8 m player (e.g., Norris). Not even sure we’d be able to clear $8 m of cap space by trading Norris as we might have to take cap back to make a trade. The idea sounds good though, but might be a little too simplistic in actual practice. Depends on how many games Norris is able to play I suppose. He’s played 52 games so far this year. He might end up playing 74 games (touch wood). If he has another serious injury, then there’s always LTIR. Staois has some difficult decisions to make.

 

[PlayOn]

I don't disagree, but I think that this is bigger than his fit on the team. I think that it is the liability of the contract. Why they are doing it now instead of the offseason? My only guess could be that they determined that depth is an issue, and they don't want the risk of Norris suffering another major injury down the stretch or in the playoffs when games get heavier.

We're not a Melnyk-type budget team, but it has already been pointed out by people like Friedman that the rising cap and low Canadian dollar will squeeze many teams. I think a big part of his name being out there has to be that the contract being on the book presents a tremendous risk to them.

I do get the impression that Staios is motivated to turn over as much of the roster as possible, save for the 3-4 stars we will build around. For a roster with as little cap flexibility as ours had last season, he turned over a significant amount of roster spots. They added Gaudette, Gregor, Amadio, Perron, Cousins, Jensen, Ullmark. That is pretty big turnover for one season.

Honestly I don’t think Norris is getting moved at the deadline though. At the end of that CIH interview Seravelli said a new trade board was coming, and they asked if any Sens were on it and he said no. Typically if he thinks someone is going to be moved soon, they’d be added.

Garrioch has also said we’re unlikely to see any big changes.

I feel like last year, they are just setting the stage for this summer. Even the Boeser stuff was someone saying “it’s safe to say Ottawa has checked in”, which is fairly light.

This could age poorly but we’ll see.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Not sure that two $4 m players equals one good $8 m player (e.g., Norris). Not even sure we’d be able to clear $8 m of cap space by trading Norris as we might have to take cap back to make a trade. The idea sounds good though, but might be a little too simplistic in actual practice. Depends on how many games Norris is able to play I suppose. He’s played 52 games so far this year. If he has another serious injury, then there’s always LTIR. Staois has some difficult decisions to make.

doesn't have to be 2 4M players; the arithmetic works .,... anyway that is a debate that depends on how they use the 8m and the players they bring in

 

[Burrowsaurus]

If you can get out of the Norris contract, you get out of it. Seems Staios and Sens seem to feel the same, they've had his name out for over a year

So you get out of the contract for nothing in return… And then .. what? Spend the next half decade looking for a center.

Norris and no cupboards to deal with is better than no Norris and no cupboards to deals wit

If Norris is bringing back something I a hockey deal okay different story.

As for cap. I let the reduction in girouxs contract, Hamonic retirement, and perrons contract coming to an end/trade/buy out take care of that. We’ve traded enough decent players for nothing it’s not a recipe for success.

This team is better with Norris and we’re not signing top 6 centers in FA OR trading for one when we have nothing to trade.

Separate;
I would look to trading batherson for 2 much cheaper forwards that can pot 10-15 a year and play defence.

Or flip him offseason for a first and a good prospect and then hit FA with smart acquisitions

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Honestly I don’t think Norris is getting moved at the deadline though. At the end of that CIH interview Seravelli said a new trade board was coming, and they asked if any Sens were on it and he said no. Typically if he thinks someone is going to be moved soon, they’d be added.

Garrioch has also said we’re unlikely to see any big changes.

I feel like last year, they are just setting the stage for this summer. Even the Boeser stuff was someone saying “it’s safe to say Ottawa has checked in”, which is fairly light.

This could age poorly but we’ll see.

If we trade for boeser and give him a monster contract we’re all going to be wishing for Norris back

 

[Big Muddy]

doesn't have to be 2 4M players; the arithmetic works .,... anyway that is a debate that depends on how they use the 8m and the players they bring in

The other point worth considering is would it actually free up $8 m? Hopefully it would, but not sure it's a given or automatic. Devil is in the details as they say. Pinto could handle 2C duties. Greig I’m a little less certain about, but he would be a downgrade from Pinto as our 3C (imho). They could try Norris at wing. That’s another possibility I suppose.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Frederic gets a 2nd+4th from Edmonton after putting up 15 points in 57 games

And according to Chris Johnston he might not even be back from the IR until the playoffs.

Yeah let's not jump on board the crazy train and buy at the deadline. Silly season in full swing.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Frederic gets a 2nd+4th from Edmonton after putting up 15 points in 57 games

And according to Chris Johnston he might not even be back from the IR until the playoffs.

Yeah let's not jump on board the crazy train and buy at the deadline. Silly season in full swing.

That's a pretty solid deal for Edmonton, especially with NJ retaining 50% of his salary. He's exactly the type of forward they lack and will definitely help them in the playoffs. Nothing silly about it.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I think whether directly or indirectly, if they pull of the Norris trade as they intend to they will bring back someone who is supposed to be a top 6 scorer. Either directly in the trade, or using cap and some of the assets from the trade.

They have apparently been tied to Boeser. So it makes me wonder if they are trying to do something around Norris (maybe with retention) for Boeser (with retention)+Soucy, and Vancouver is reticent because they think maybe they can get big assets for Boeser as a rental, or they are afraid of the injury history of Norris. I think Boeser would be a rental, but it's like Boeser and Norris is a lateral move, but they also add the #5D that they badly need since Matinpalo and Kleven clearly aren't earmarked for that role.

I just don't understand why if they so badly need to fill the goal scoring role with Stutzle, which they obviously do, why they wouldn't at least try Norris there before going a route like this. Norris is arguably a better goal scorer than Boeser anyways and Soucy is a cap dump not fixing anything imo.

 

[Hale The Villain]

That's a pretty solid deal for Edmonton, especially with NJ retaining 50% of his salary. He's exactly the type of forward they lack and will definitely help them in the playoffs. Nothing silly about it.

He's been very medicocre this year and is dealing with a significant injury.

If he gets a 2nd+4th then Donato is getting at least two 2nds or even a late 1st.

Silly season.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

He's been very medicocre this year and is dealing with a significant injury.

If he gets a 2nd+4th then Donato is getting at least two 2nds or even a late 1st.

Silly season.

I could maybe live with it if it weren't for a rental, but the idea of this team going for any rental at all feels foolhardy. The high cost just hammers it home.

 

[Hale The Villain]

I could maybe live with it if it weren't for a rental, but the idea of this team going for any rental at all feels foolhardy. The high cost just hammers it home.

Paying high deadline prices in a seller's market when we aren't even in a playoff spot would be foolish.

Wouldn't care if we were loaded with young assets, but thanks to Dorion we have very little to trade. Staios has to manage his limited assets a lot smarter.

 

[Blotto71]

Of course he will. He’s a twenty goal guy. Or he’s getting a decent prospect

I don't think so. Nyquist got a second with 50% retention. Chicago has no retention spots so whomever gets him is also getting the balance of his salary this year (unless a 3rd party is involved, but that further reduces the chances of Chicago getting a 1st). That will limit some of the teams that might otherwise make a deal for him. Ottawa can't deal for him without sending back equal dollars or making another deal first. Also need to consider his 16.5% shooting percentage - sustainable? Or a guy having a timely career year?

2nd seems right.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

So you get out of the contract for nothing in return… And then .. what? Spend the next half decade looking for a center.

Norris and no cupboards to deal with is better than no Norris and no cupboards to deals wit

If Norris is bringing back something I a hockey deal okay different story.

As for cap. I let the reduction in girouxs contract, Hamonic retirement, and perrons contract coming to an end/trade/buy out take care of that. We’ve traded enough decent players for nothing it’s not a recipe for success.

This team is better with Norris and we’re not signing top 6 centers in FA OR trading for one when we have nothing to trade.

Separate;
I would look to trading batherson for 2 much cheaper forwards that can pot 10-15 a year and play defence.

Or flip him offseason for a first and a good prospect and then hit FA with smart acquisitions

It isn't so much about how they spend the money in the immediate future, it's about not being tied down to another 5 years of big money for a player who due to injuries has only played half of the possible NHL games he could have over the last four seasons.

They might go and spend the money on two David Perron's who come in and are a flop on the ice. But the difference is that those contracts will only be on the book for the short term, with Norris, they are stuck with him.

I also think that the money is a factor, he makes 9.5M this season and the next two seasons.

The injury as it relates to insurance also might be an issue. We don't know if his should was a pre-existing condition. Even if it is covered, it isn't like insurance covers the entirety of the money. We're not a big market team who can just say throw him on LTIR and be done with it. The real dollars play a factor, even if we aren't going full-Melnyk with the budget.

So you get out of the contract for nothing in return… And then .. what? Spend the next half decade looking for a center.

Norris and no cupboards to deal with is better than no Norris and no cupboards to deals wit

If Norris is bringing back something I a hockey deal okay different story.

As for cap. I let the reduction in girouxs contract, Hamonic retirement, and perrons contract coming to an end/trade/buy out take care of that. We’ve traded enough decent players for nothing it’s not a recipe for success.

This team is better with Norris and we’re not signing top 6 centers in FA OR trading for one when we have nothing to trade.

Separate;
I would look to trading batherson for 2 much cheaper forwards that can pot 10-15 a year and play defence.

Or flip him offseason for a first and a good prospect and then hit FA with smart acquisitions

It isn't so much about how they spend the money in the immediate future, it's about not being tied down to another 5 years of big money for a player who due to injuries has only played half of the possible NHL games he could have over the last four seasons.

They might go and spend the money on two David Perron's who come in and are a flop on the ice. But the difference is that those contracts will only be on the book for the short term, with Norris, they are stuck with him.

I also think that the money is a factor, he makes 9.5M this season and the next two seasons.

The injury as it relates to insurance also might be an issue. We don't know if his should was a pre-existing condition. Even if it is covered, it isn't like insurance covers the entirety of the money. We're not a big market team who can just say throw him on LTIR and be done with it. The real dollars play a factor, even if we aren't going full-Melnyk with the budget. The issue with the contract ultimately is the liability of it.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I don't think so. Nyquist got a second with 50% retention. Chicago has no retention spots so whomever gets him is also getting the balance of his salary this year (unless a 3rd party is involved, but that further reduces the chances of Chicago getting a 1st). That will limit some of the teams that might otherwise make a deal for him. Ottawa can't deal for him without sending back equal dollars or making another deal first. Also need to consider his 16.5% shooting percentage - sustainable? Or a guy having a timely career year?

2nd seems right.

He’s in the middle of a great year.

You’re also applying logic during trade deadline season. The right price is rarely the price that gets paid

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Paying high deadline prices in a seller's market when we aren't even in a playoff spot would be foolish.

Wouldn't care if we were loaded with young assets, but thanks to Dorion we have very little to trade. Staios has to manage his limited assets a lot smarter.

I agree with you 100 percent in theory, but if they think a Tkachuk trade is coming in the summer, giving up anything except for a 1st or Yak is justifiable if it increases the chances at playoffs, and then the chances at winning subsequent playoff games.

Value isn't a static thing from team to team or situation to situation. With Ottawa, we're talking about a fanbase that hasn't seen playoff hockey in seven seasons. They are asset poor and have to dig themselves out of the hole that Dorion and Melnyk created trying to maintain the budget and polish up the team for a sale. Making the playoffs is incredibly important this year for engaging the fanbase and season ticket base. All the goodwill from not being Melnyk has been used up.

If you're just looking at the team on paper, and not considering the various stakeholders (Brady, the SSM base, the people within the organization who need it to be profitable, etc) - then yes you are 100 percent right. But I think in application we are at a point where we cannot afford to miss the playoffs this year. It's simply not an option. If that means making the hole deeper without giving away a piece like Yak that will set us back 5 years, then we gotta do it.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Our Josh Norris replacement.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Our Josh Norris replacement.

Better than Gaudette and he can dish it on the PP

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Better than Gaudette and he can dish it on the PP

I more so meant that he could reliably find himself injured as often as Norris, but what you're saying is true as well.

 

[HSF]

With the top line having such an obvious hole, it is kind of odd they haven't at least tried to get more creative with something like Norris on the wing. I've also asked for that a few times this year.

cause then there is a large hole as 3C. Greig is not that.