Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[Micklebot]

Ottawa spending 10.5mill on Perron and G this year has hurt our cap situation. Both have declined and are taking a lot of a cap space. Their lack of speed is evident this year

Ok, has no relevance to my post but sure, those two are overpaid, maybe collectively by a shade under 3 mil, though I'd argue that's primarily due to Perron and his's situation is a bit less clear due to his health early this year,

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Ok, has no relevance to my post but sure, those two are overpaid, maybe collectively by a shade under 3 mil, though I'd argue that's primarily due to Perron and his's situation is a bit less clear due to his health early this year,

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[HSF]

Ok, has no relevance to my post but sure, those two are overpaid, maybe collectively by a shade under 3 mil, though I'd argue that's primarily due to Perron and his's situation is a bit less clear due to his health early this year,

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I agree....Perron and G are overpaid for that they bring. Bennett makes less than G but he also impacts the game in multiple ways so if he isn't scoring he is still bring an aggressive game to the table which helps in the playoffs. I think my biggest thing with them is that you can't have both esp with their lack of speed. I don't mind G at his cost but Perron is no where near what he was. I think still think guys like Cirelli and Bennett just bring more jam and speed to their game which would be more effective in our top 6

I think the sens are close to being contenders they just need to be more efficient on how they spend cap and they need a bit more speed.

 

[aragorn]

Ottawa spending 10.5mill on Perron and G this year has hurt our cap situation. Both have declined and are taking a lot of a cap space. Their lack of speed is evident this year

Perron's problems has more to do with his family issue missing so many games & then getting injured & missing more games. When he has played we can see he still has a decent skillset. The Perron, Giroux & Amadio threesome is not a perfect situation, but it's not terrible either & who knows maybe Perron & Amadio break out next season. We still need to upgrade the 4th line.

 

[HSF]

Perron's problems has more to do with his family issue missing so many games & then getting injured & missing more games. When he has played we can see he still has a decent skillset. The Perron, Giroux & Amadio threesome is not a perfect situation, but it's not terrible either & who knows maybe Perron & Amadio break out next season. We still need to upgrade the 4th line.

His skillset is decent but G and Perron are slow at their current age which is an issue in the current NHL. In the playoffs depending on the series they can do well but the allocation of 10.5mill over two guys who aren't up to speed is just not efficient. Perron is not a legit top 6 player anymore and our top PP unit already is full. It's not a great fit imo for 4mill. G will make less on his next contract if he doesn't retire.

 

[aragorn]

His skillset is decent but G and Perron are slow at their current age which is an issue in the current NHL. In the playoffs depending on the series they can do well but the allocation of 10.5mill over two guys who aren't up to speed is just not efficient. Perron is not a legit top 6 player anymore and our top PP unit already is full. It's not a great fit imo for 4mill. G will make less on his next contract if he doesn't retire.

There is nothing that can be done at this point, they aren't trading them & it seems like they want to extend Giroux. Perron is signed for another yr & Amadio is signed for another two yrs so unless they move them they will be here. Jensen makes $4 mil & will also be here for another yr.

I expect that all of the UFAs could end up leaving at yr's end with the exception of Giroux & maybe Gregor. With the cap going up & letting the UFAs walk that might free up enough money to add a top six free agent.

 

[HSF]

There is nothing that can be done at this point, they aren't trading them & it seems like they want to extend Giroux. Perron is signed for another yr & Amadio is signed for another two yrs so unless they move them they will be here. Jensen makes $4 mil & will also be here for another yr.

I expect that all of the UFAs could end up leaving at yr's end with the exception of Giroux & maybe Gregor. With the cap going up & letting the UFAs walk that might free up enough money to add a top six free agent.

I don't mind Amadio. He is in his prime and is not going to decline rn.

Yes there is nothing they can do rn it is a summer problem. I personally wouldn't be surprised if G retired anyways

 

[Micklebot]

I agree....Perron and G are overpaid for that they bring. Bennett makes less than G but he also impacts the game in multiple ways so if he isn't scoring he is still bring an aggressive game to the table which helps in the playoffs. I think my biggest thing with them is that you can't have both esp with their lack of speed. I don't mind G at his cost but Perron is no where near what he was. I think still think guys like Cirelli and Bennett just bring more jam and speed to their game which would be more effective in our top 6

I think the sens are close to being contenders they just need to be more efficient on how they spend cap and they need a bit more speed.

So, first off, Perron probably doesn't belong in the discussion, seeing as I was talking about top 6 forwards and whether Giroux belongs. I don't think Perron is in our top 6, so why even bring him other than to be a strawman. Moving the goalposts to shit on him is just that, goalpost moving.

Perron though, as I said, is tough to gauge, he certainly hasn't lived up to his contract, but there is some significant context that goes along with that, which may be short term context. This season to me is a write off for him, I don't think he'll get full value for his deal next year, but I do think the odds are that he is closer to providing full value than he was this year. Time will tell but either way the deal didn't work out, at least on ice.

Giroux on the other hand, I think his deal has been great. He's an effective penalty killer, a faceoff demon, produces well within top 6 numbers even still, and isn't a complete liability defensively. We're in the last year of it, so it's at it's worst in terms of value to cap hit, but even then, it's only slightly overpaid compared to the market in terms of his in ice impact. That said, the rumour right now is he's going to extend for around 4.5 which would bring him well under market value (assuming his play maintains, it may regress).

All that said, both players bring more than their on ice impact, they are both experience vets and are in large part here for that. I don't think you can easily quantify the impact vets have on a team, and we specifically went out and targeted that for a reason. Giroux clearly can still play, and has a wealth of experience, he is exactly the type of vet we should want to have around the team. Perron, it's a bit more dependent on whether he can get his play back up to snuff. Bad backs will wreck your game, so who knows.

It's also telling that you ignored guys like Rodrigues and Compher, and we're currently limiting comps to only SC winning teams. The reality is lots of teams would love to have Giroux in their top 6, people are absolutely delusional to think otherwise.

 

[HSF]

So, first off, Perron probably doesn't belong in the discussion, seeing as I was talking about top 6 forwards and whether Giroux belongs. I don't think Perron is in our top 6, so why even bring him other than to be a strawman. Moving the goalposts to shit on him is just that, goalpost moving.

Perron though, as I said, is tough to gauge, he certainly hasn't lived up to his contract, but there is some significant context that goes along with that, which may be short term context. This season to me is a write off for him, I don't think he'll get full value for his deal next year, but I do think the odds are that he is closer to providing full value than he was this year. Time will tell but either way the deal didn't work out, at least on ice.

Giroux on the other hand, I think his deal has been great. He's an effective penalty killer, a faceoff demon, produces well within top 6 numbers even still, and isn't a complete liability defensively. We're in the last year of it, so it's at it's worst in terms of value to cap hit, but even then, it's only slightly overpaid compared to the market in terms of his in ice impact. That said, the rumour right now is he's going to extend for around 4.5 which would bring him well under market value (assuming his play maintains, it may regress).

All that said, both players bring more than their on ice impact, they are both experience vets and are in large part here for that. I don't think you can easily quantify the impact vets have on a team, and we specifically went out and targeted that for a reason. Giroux clearly can still play, and has a wealth of experience, he is exactly the type of vet we should want to have around the team. Perron, it's a bit more dependent on whether he can get his play back up to snuff. Bad backs will wreck your game, so who knows.

It's also telling that you ignored guys like Rodrigues and Compher, and we're currently limiting comps to only SC winning teams. The reality is lots of teams would love to have Giroux in their top 6, people are absolutely delusional to think otherwise.

If they extend G at 4.5 then they should look to move Perron. I don't think the sens will need a ton of 'vets' going into next season. Their young guys are taking over and they still a have other older guys on the team

Perron and G should both be taken into account when talking about our cap situation if they are both over 4mill. There is really no need for both

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

You guys aren't doing a fair job of contextualizing how 4.5M actually fits into the cap.

If Giroux does sign a 2 year 4.XX extension, the cap in year 2 of that extension is going to be about 15 million higher than when Perron signed.

It is veteran third line money. The term concerns me at his age and rate of decline, but the ceiling for what he has to be on the ice to justify that number is very low. They doesn't account for any off ice benefits like leadership, marketability, etc.

 

[Cosmix]

Macewen coming back?

MacEwen has an NHL contract for next season.

 

[Cosmix]

I agree....Perron and G are overpaid for that they bring. Bennett makes less than G but he also impacts the game in multiple ways so if he isn't scoring he is still bring an aggressive game to the table which helps in the playoffs. I think my biggest thing with them is that you can't have both esp with their lack of speed. I don't mind G at his cost but Perron is no where near what he was. I think still think guys like Cirelli and Bennett just bring more jam and speed to their game which would be more effective in our top 6

I think the sens are close to being contenders they just need to be more efficient on how they spend cap and they need a bit more speed.

I like and would retain Giroux more than Perron. Hopefully we can trade Perron without taking a salary cap anchor back. Might have to add a low draft pick to make that trade (hopefully only a 4, 5, 6 or 7th round pick).

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I like and would retain Giroux more than Perron. Hopefully we can trade Perron without taking a salary cap anchor back. Might have to add a low draft pick to make that trade (hopefully only a 4, 5, 6 or 7th round pick).

Do you think the current Sens regime will be ruthless in trades to help the team, similar to the Knights or a little soft , in caring for the player, the person and wanting to do right by them and not invite outside criticism from players

The previous regime with Melnyk and Dorion did get some bad press from how they treated players they were showing the door to

I think if its respectful and business like .. we wouldn't see a backlash

 

[aragorn]

I think they re-sign Giroux for less money & I don't see them trading Perron. The only guys I think they move on from are the UFAs & maybe Gregor. I hope they add someone before the trade deadline likely a cheap rental or someone on a cheap contract for an extra yr. If they do clean out the UFAs & with the cap going up I expect they could free up enough money to add a top six forward during free agency this summer. We'll see.

 

[Cosmix]

Do you think the current Sens regime will be ruthless in trades to help the team, similar to the Knights or a little soft , in caring for the player, the person and wanting to do right by them and not invite outside criticism from players

The previous regime with Melnyk and Dorion did get some bad press from how they treated players they were showing the door to

I think if its respectful and business like .. we wouldn't see a backlash

I think the current regime might be "too patient"!

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

I think they re-sign Giroux for less money & I don't see them trading Perron. The only guys I think they move on from are the UFAs & maybe Gregor. I hope they add someone before the trade deadline likely a cheap rental or someone on a cheap contract for an extra yr. If they do clean out the UFAs & with the cap going up I expect they could free up enough money to add a top six forward during free agency this summer. We'll see.

Staios went on record last season about how difficult it is to find good quality veteran leaders.

I think it's reasonable to expect them to keep Perron, even if he hasn't lived up to the contract on the ice.

I'm not saying it's impossible he could be moved, but I think it's unlikely.

 

[Blotto71]

This year has to be viewed through the lens of a defense first system, I suspect if we were still playing the more risk taking offensive system DJ ran, Giroux's production would be pretty close to the same as last year.

At 110th in pts/g for forwards with 30+ games, he's easily producing at a top 6 rate, and unless you expect him to drop under 40-45 pts pace next year, he's likely to still be producing with a top 6 pace for forwards next year.

He's certainly getting older, and won't be a top end line driver the way he was, but people have a distorted view of what top 6 forward means, there just aren't enough guys that produce 45+ pts a year for every team to fill out their top 6, but people expect every top 6 forward to be over 50 pts. Even SC winners have guys in their top 6 around 45 pts pace, Florida had Bennett (48 pace) and Rodrigues (40 pace), Colorado had Compher (48 pace), tbay had Cerrelli (46 pace)

What we need is for other guys in the top 6 to take the lead, that means our 2nd line center, be it Norris or Pinto, and our 2nd line LW can't also be the guys hanging around 45 pts if that's where Giroux ends up.

Norris is on a 51pt pace over 82games - worth noting that he's on a 31g pace, and goals are something this team desperately needs.

Brady is on a 64pt pace.

Batherson is o a 66pt pace.

Pinto is on a 39pt pace despite playing mostly 3rd line and getting defensive match-ups. I'd really like to see him center Norris and Batherson, and see what happens. I know others don't want Norris moved to the wing, but if the Sens are keeping him then they need to figure out how to generate more scoring.

3rd line would be Perron - Greig - Amadio by default. With Ostapchuk centering Gregor and Reinhart (?) to round it out.

Not sexy, but if there are no moves before the deadline that's about as good as it could get (and would require a hefty dose of good luck - any line with Norris AND Pinto would be scary to watch for all the wrong reasons).

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Staios went on record last season about how difficult it is to find good quality veteran leaders.

I think it's reasonable to expect them to keep Perron, even if he hasn't lived up to the contract on the ice.

I'm not saying it's impossible he could be moved, but I think it's unlikely.

He would have to be sold vs sought after so not a position of strength just based on his production / $

 

[Micklebot]

If they extend G at 4.5 then they should look to move Perron. I don't think the sens will need a ton of 'vets' going into next season. Their young guys are taking over and they still a have other older guys on the team

Perron and G should both be taken into account when talking about our cap situation if they are both over 4mill. There is really no need for both

The idea of moving Perron relies on other teams having interest, it's either he's valuable enough that teams want him and maybe we should consider keeping him, he has zero or negative value and we'd need to pay assets we don't have to move him, or we buy his last year out, imo.

Both guys serve different roles, one is a top 6 forward and was signed to be that (Giroux), the other a vet for the 3rd line vet (Perron), that maybe can move up in the event of injuries. We need both roles, of course it would be nice if Giroux served the later role, but you aren't filling that top 6 role for the 4 mil we're paying Perron, especially if we have to pay for the cost of a buyout.

I don't personally think moving on from either is realistic, one because we won't likely find better value on the open market than we can get from him, and the other because no market exist for him given how this season went.

 

[aragorn]

I think the current regime might be "too patient"!

Fans of course are the complete opposite, right!

 

[Micklebot]

Norris is on a 51pt pace over 82games - worth noting that he's on a 31g pace, and goals are something this team desperately needs.

Brady is on a 64pt pace.

Batherson is o a 66pt pace.

Pinto is on a 39pt pace despite playing mostly 3rd line and getting defensive match-ups. I'd really like to see him center Norris and Batherson, and see what happens. I know others don't want Norris moved to the wing, but if the Sens are keeping him then they need to figure out how to generate more scoring.

3rd line would be Perron - Greig - Amadio by default. With Ostapchuk centering Gregor and Reinhart (?) to round it out.

Not sexy, but if there are no moves before the deadline that's about as good as it could get (and would require a hefty dose of good luck - any line with Norris AND Pinto would be scary to watch for all the wrong reasons).

I'm not trying to suggest our roster is perfect, it would certainly be nice to upgrade, but realistically our issue isn't Giroux being in our top 6. We could use another top 6 winger though, having Greig or Gaudette get top 6 mins (when the team is healthy) is not ideal.

I think Norris on Stu's wing is something to explore. He'd likely see his production climb a touch if they can find chemistry, and he'd add a defensive presence as well as some faceoff help to that top line.

Pinto to me is a good candidate for the 2nd line if Norris is moved to the wing, he had a very slow start to the season offensively, but I think he'd also likely see a bit of a production bump moving up to the 2nd line role. He's actially got 19 pts in his last 26 games, that's a 60 pts pace, so the potential is there.

I'm not sure what you mean by the last para, I assume it's a health thing? Norris has been fine this year, his current injury is completely unrelated to past surgeries, so i don't see how it creates any additional concern. He's missed 6 games so far, that's not an unusual amount, it's a rough games, guys miss time. At some point we need to stop worrying about his shoulder. As for Pinto, I guess we'll see. Again, it seems like sens fans have a bit of PTSD wrt injuries, we worry regardless of whether there is reason to be concerned.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Perron's problems has more to do with his family issue missing so many games & then getting injured & missing more games. When he has played we can see he still has a decent skillset. The Perron, Giroux & Amadio threesome is not a perfect situation, but it's not terrible either & who knows maybe Perron & Amadio break out next season. We still need to upgrade the 4th line.

I think the bigger problem is that we need another skilled, good top 6 forward. If they could land a player with the skillset & IQ to play alongside Stutzle, that would be ideal. If Stutzle was in the top 20 for goals scored, that would help.

 

[Blotto71]

I'm not trying to suggest our roster is perfect, it would certainly be nice to upgrade, but realistically our issue isn't Giroux being in our top 6. We could use another top 6 winger though, having Greig or Gaudette get top 6 mins (when the team is healthy) is not ideal.

I think Norris on Stu's wing is something to explore. He'd likely see his production climb a touch if they can find chemistry, and he'd add a defensive presence as well as some faceoff help to that top line.

Pinto to me is a good candidate for the 2nd line if Norris is moved to the wing, he had a very slow start to the season offensively, but I think he'd also likely see a bit of a production bump moving up to the 2nd line role. He's actially got 19 pts in his last 26 games, that's a 60 pts pace, so the potential is there.

I'm not sure what you mean by the last para, I assume it's a health thing? Norris has been fine this year, his current injury is completely unrelated to past surgeries, so i don't see how it creates any additional concern. He's missed 6 games so far, that's not an unusual amount, it's a rough games, guys miss time. At some point we need to stop worrying about his shoulder. As for Pinto, I guess we'll see. Again, it seems like sens fans have a bit of PTSD wrt injuries, we worry regardless of whether there is reason to be concerned.

I don't know that I will ever be able to not worry about those two. I clench and cringe every time they're involved in contact plays, lol.

I dont thinl that all the trade talk and f/a talk here will lead to any moves of significance (prove me wrong, Staios!! I dare you!), so top 6 improvements will have to come from within. I agree, Norris to a wing with Pinto at 2nd line C is the easiest way to do that.